The World Champions or the World No.1 team?

Black Magic wrote:

Red n' Black wrote:

Black Magic wrote:
Apologies for the line up, I just took a rough guess.

No worries dude, I've seen Italy play with the lineup you've listed anyway

Yeah it was more of a Lippi line up. Which strikers do you think should go to Euro 08?

If I had to pick 5:
Toni
Iaquinta
Di Natale
Del Piero
Amauri

Red n' Black wrote:

Black Magic wrote:

Red n' Black wrote:

Black Magic wrote:
Apologies for the line up, I just took a rough guess.

No worries dude, I've seen Italy play with the lineup you've listed anyway

Yeah it was more of a Lippi line up. Which strikers do you think should go to Euro 08?

If I had to pick 5:
Toni
Iaquinta
Di Natale
Del Piero
Amauri

I pretty much agree with your choices, maybe I'd take Cassano instead of ADP.

L r d wrote:Argentina are the best team in the world in qualifying campaigns and group stages of tournaments. When it really matters they turn into a very average side true story

Toni Kroos wrote:

Merry Krimbo wrote:

Toni Kroos wrote:come on, what spanish player has influenced a spanish club side besides RAUL

Guardiola, Luis Enrique, Puyol, Ramos, Villa, Valeron, Vicente, Cassilas, Xavi, Iniesta, Hierro, Mendieta, Nadal etc etc etc.

Plonker.

great a lot of names, but thats not good enough to be called greats

nobody missed xavi after his injury, is he a starter for barca now??


all this players nothing specizal in comparison to german counterparts, germany always had the better players and will always have

scholl >>>> lusi enrique
lahm>>> ramos
casillas == kahn
nadal, poyuol <<< kohler,linke

valeron, guardiola <<< möller, effenberg, ballack,

oh jesus i could go on and on

Red n' Black wrote:

Black Magic wrote:
Strikers: Tough. Toni = Crespo and Tevez > Gilardino, so the Argies win out on that as well.

Don't think so. I'd take Toni over Crespo any day of the week, without even thinking about it. Also Gilardino isn't part of the squad nowadays, let alone the starting lineup. Italy(under Donadoni) play a 4-3-3, with Di Natale and Camoranesi supporting Toni upfront. And if Cassano maintains his form he will be starting instead of either Camo or ADN I think.

Anyway, in my opinion these teams are more or less on the same level.

Black Magic wrote:Which is the better team - Italy or Argentina?

One has won the most recent Fifa World Cup, the other is 1st in the Fifa World rankings. So who are the better team?

Lets see the potential starting Line up of each team: (Italy and Argentina)

World Champions

-----------------------Buffon--------------------

Zambrotta---Cannavaro---Materazzi---Grosso*

----------------------Gattuso--------------------

------Camoranesi----Pirlo----Perrotta---------

----------------Toni--------Gilardino*-----------

*Oddo maybe at RB and Zambo switching to the left
*Maybe Di Natali or Iaquinta ahead of Gilardino


World No.1

-------------Abbondanzieri------------

Zanetti---Ayala---Samuel*---Heinze

-------------Mascherano*-------------

Messi------Riquelme------M. Rodriguez*

-----------Crespo-------Tevez---------

* Milito instead
* Cambiasso
* Lucho Gonzalez

Defence: I think the defence is very tight. Italy just edge it I think with Materazzi in WC form.

Midfield: Argentina wins it hands down for me Apart from Maxi Rodriguez, they are all World Class players.

Strikers: Tough. Toni = Crespo and Tevez > Gilardino, so the Argies win out on that as well.

Depth:

Italy
Aquilani
Bonera
Lucarelli
Quagliarella
Panucci
Chiellini
Barzagli
Di Natale
De Rossi
Curci
Ambrosini
Amelia
Iaquinta
Oddo
Zaccardo
Del Piero
Inzaghi

Argentina
Demichelis
Burdisso
Cambiasso
Sergio Aguero
Gago
Coloccini
Ustari
Sosa
Ledesma
Lucho González
Diego Milito
Gabriel Milito
Javier Saviola
Palacio
Aimar
Veron
Julio Cruz
Higuin

Argentina has more depth IMO, able to replace anyone in the starting Line up.

Form book: Italy finished first in their Euro 08 group, winning 9 of the 12 matches.

Argentina romped to the Final of the Copa America where they failed to show up against a young Brazil side. Currently second in the WC qualifications having lost just one match.

Calidad wrote:

Black Magic wrote:Which is the better team - Italy or Argentina?

One has won the most recent Fifa World Cup, the other is 1st in the Fifa World rankings. So who are the better team?

Lets see the potential starting Line up of each team: (Italy and Argentina)

World Champions

-----------------------Buffon--------------------

Zambrotta---Cannavaro---Materazzi---Grosso*

----------------------Gattuso--------------------

------Camoranesi----Pirlo----Perrotta---------

----------------Toni--------Gilardino*-----------

*Oddo maybe at RB and Zambo switching to the left
*Maybe Di Natali or Iaquinta ahead of Gilardino


World No.1

-------------Abbondanzieri------------

Zanetti---Ayala---Samuel*---Heinze

-------------Mascherano*-------------

Messi------Riquelme------M. Rodriguez*

-----------Crespo-------Tevez---------

* Milito instead
* Cambiasso
* Lucho Gonzalez

Defence: I think the defence is very tight. Italy just edge it I think with Materazzi in WC form.

Midfield: Argentina wins it hands down for me Apart from Maxi Rodriguez, they are all World Class players.

Strikers: Tough. Toni = Crespo and Tevez > Gilardino, so the Argies win out on that as well.

Depth:

Italy
Aquilani
Bonera
Lucarelli
Quagliarella
Panucci
Chiellini
Barzagli
Di Natale
De Rossi
Curci
Ambrosini
Amelia
Iaquinta
Oddo
Zaccardo
Del Piero
Inzaghi

Argentina
Demichelis
Burdisso
Cambiasso
Sergio Aguero
Gago
Coloccini
Ustari
Sosa
Ledesma
Lucho González
Diego Milito
Gabriel Milito
Javier Saviola
Palacio
Aimar
Veron
Julio Cruz
Higuin

Argentina has more depth IMO, able to replace anyone in the starting Line up.

Form book: Italy finished first in their Euro 08 group, winning 9 of the 12 matches.

Argentina romped to the Final of the Copa America where they failed to show up against a young Brazil side. Currently second in the WC qualifications having lost just one match.

You've got the teams slightly wrong though. I don't think Giladino starts for Italy, and Crespo, Samuel, Zanetti & Tevez (at least recently) aren't starters eithers.

Both are ridiculously strong teams, though Argentina pip Italy (as they do pretty much everyside) in terms of the quality (on paper) they can field. They're only real weakness - albeit a significant one is thier full backs.

Honourable C*nt wrote:Italy would do Argentina.

Isar Truppe wrote:If Italy were to play Argentina today, I would have my money on Argentina to win.

The comparison of Germany and Spain is stupid. Spain have a lot of talented individuals, but they remain individuals. Maybe they need a foreign coach to get them playing as a unit?

Deisler/Toni Kroos...please shut up, you are embarassing your country with stupidity/un-funny comments. If you are going to debate about things, then make sure you have a foundation for your argument.

Black Magic wrote:Spain have WAY more talent and depth. Sweini gets injured who comes in? Odonkor? When Vicente gets injured Silva steps in. Not a huge gap, but nonetheless a gap

Scott Parker wrote:If the Germans are saying Argentina are better and would beat Italy, then Argentina would beat Germany for sure.

Isar Truppe wrote:

Black Magic wrote:Spain have WAY more talent and depth. Sweini gets injured who comes in? Odonkor? When Vicente gets injured Silva steps in. Not a huge gap, but nonetheless a gap

I hope you're not one of those people who has a go at toni kroos/deisler, not when you are trying to convince with arguments like that.

When you say "WAY" more talent and depth, then provide a half example, I'm not really convinced. Neither Vicente or Silva have shown me enough of what they can do in a Spanish kit. That would be like me asking who would step in for Torres or Villa up front for Spain, when Germany have a host of proven international scorers.

Spain have talented players who have produced nothing worthy of their club talents on the international stage. This is a fact. You can't hide behind the words "prospect" or "potential" forever. Some day you just have to step up!

I hope you're not one of those people who has a go at toni kroos/deisler, not when you are trying to convince with arguments like that.

When you say "WAY" more talent and depth, then provide a half example, I'm not really convinced. Neither Vicente or Silva have shown me enough of what they can do in a Spanish kit. That would be like me asking who would step in for Torres or Villa up front for Spain, when Germany have a host of proven international scorers.

Spain have talented players who have produced nothing worthy of their club talents on the international stage. This is a fact. You can't hide behind the words "prospect" or "potential" forever. Some day you just have to step up

Isar Truppe wrote:

Scott Parker wrote:If the Germans are saying Argentina are better and would beat Italy, then Argentina would beat Germany for sure.

Based on what logic?

Black Magic wrote:What I'm saying is that Spain has more depth and a longer line of potentially more talented (yes, I said it again) players in almost all the positions. You can't deny that. And if they do one day manage to take the club performances to an International stage they will be the best team in Europe without a doubt. Until that happens though, they will remain pale shadows of the Mannschaft (sp?) who are currently better than the Spanish in almost every department.

Isar Truppe wrote:

Black Magic wrote:What I'm saying is that Spain has more depth and a longer line of potentially more talented (yes, I said it again) players in almost all the positions. You can't deny that. And if they do one day manage to take the club performances to an International stage they will be the best team in Europe without a doubt. Until that happens though, they will remain pale shadows of the Mannschaft (sp?) who are currently better than the Spanish in almost every department.

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts....oh I can't remember the saying. IF Spain get their act together, IF I win the lottery, IF Natalie Portman likes anal...we can all speculate on what may or may not happen, but for the moment we can only deal in reality.

johan il quattordici wrote:Iniesta > Ballack , I'm sorry.