VDV and Diego are NOT world-class, according

to Kicker

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/startseite/artikel/168374/

So no worldclass players in the Bundesliga according to Kicker?

2008: De Guzman's year wrote:So no worldclass players in the Bundesliga according to Kicker?

Ribery, apparently is

but you are right

no world-class Nederlanders in the Bundesliga this season

they must all be playing at Real or Liverpool

Seedorf @ Milan The best normally play for the Best.

36-0tto wrote:Ribery, apparently is

but you are right

no world-class Nederlanders in the Bundesliga this season

they must all be playing at Real or Liverpool

Diego, VDV and Ribery are some the very best players in the Budesliga. The likes of Klose, Toni, Sagnol, Lahm and Frings are closely following. Then you have lots of talented players like Rakitic - which IMO are more interesting to watch & follow, than the finished product or the gloriously overrated.

Toni has to be up there with the best DD...his goalscoring record for the last 4/5 seasons has been unbelievable...

Toni is a world class striker.

Toni has to be in the top tier, he is World Class. The best striker in the Bundesliga.

Black Magic wrote:Toni has to be in the top tier, he is World Class. The best striker in the Bundesliga.

He is, but not because he's the best striker in the Bundesliga.

How do you rate these predecessors?

1988/89 Thomas Allofs 1. FC Köln 17
1988/89 Roland Wohlfarth FC Bayern München 17
1989/90 Jørn Andersen SG Eintracht Frankfurt 18
1990/91 Roland Wohlfarth FC Bayern München 21
1991/92 Fritz Walter VfB Stuttgart 22
1992/93 Ulf Kirsten TSV Bayer 04 Leverkusen 20
1992/93 Anthony Yeboah SG Eintracht Frankfurt 20 [*]
1993/94 Stefan Kuntz 1. FC Kaiserslautern 18
1993/94 Anthony Yeboah SG Eintracht Frankfurt 18
1994/95 Mario Basler SV Werder Bremen 20
1994/95 Heiko Herrlich VfL Borussia M'gladbach 20
1995/96 Fredi Bobic VfB Stuttgart 17
1996/97 Ulf Kirsten TSV Bayer 04 Leverkusen 22
1997/98 Ulf Kirsten TSV Bayer 04 Leverkusen 22
1998/99 Michael Preetz Hertha BSC 23
1999/00 Martin Max TSV 1860 München 19
2000/01 Sergej Barbarez Hamburger SV 22
2000/01 Ebbe Sand FC Schalke 04 22
2001/02 Márcio AMOROSO d. S. BV Borussia 09 Dortmund 18
2001/02 Martin Max TSV 1860 München 18
2002/03 Thomas Christiansen VfL Bochum 21
2002/03 Giovane de S. ÉLBER FC Bayern München 21
2003/04 AÍLTON Gonç. da Silva SV Werder Bremen 28
2004/05 Marek Mintál 1. FC Nürnberg 24
2005/06 Miroslav Klose SV Werder Bremen 25
2006/07 Theofanis Gekas VfL Bochum 20

Nearly a who is who is numptyland. Topscorer in the Dutch Eredivisie that's more likely to be a worldclass striker...

2008: De Guzman's year wrote:

Black Magic wrote:Toni has to be in the top tier, he is World Class. The best striker in the Bundesliga.

He is, but not because he's the best striker in the Bundesliga.

You don't think he's the best ST in the Bundesliga?

How do you rate these predecessors?

Not names that stick out actually. Kuntz must have been quality to be a starter for Germany in Euro 96. Klose is quality as well IMO. Also recognise Ailton, Mintal, Amoroso. (if it's the one who played for Sao Paulo and Milan)

I think Giovanni Elber was also massively underrated.

Klose is the best striker in the Bundesliga

by a country-mile

far more versatile than Toni

there is nothing wrong with the Bundesliga top-scorers either

the fact that you have never heard of them means nothing

think of Santa Cruz, Berbatov or even Kuntz

they would have been nobodies in England , if they had not demonstrated their skills on your island

now they are seen as global superstars

Black Magic wrote:

2008: De Guzman's year wrote:

Black Magic wrote:Toni has to be in the top tier, he is World Class. The best striker in the Bundesliga.

He is, but not because he's the best striker in the Bundesliga.

You don't think he's the best ST in the Bundesliga?

He is the best striker in the Bundesliga & he is worldclass. But being hte best striker in the Bundesliga does NOT mean a player is worldclass, as my list prooves. Toni is an exception to the rule. Most of them are just good strikers. Nothing like Romario, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy, etc.

Anyone who thinks Kuntz ever was worldclass has absolutely no clue about football whatsoever.

36-0tto wrote:Klose is the best striker in the Bundesliga

by a country-mile

far more versatile than Toni

there is nothing wrong with the Bundesliga top-scorers either

the fact that you have never heard of them means nothing

think of Santa Cruz, Berbatov or even Kuntz

they would have been nobodies in England , if they had not demonstrated their skills on your island

now they are seen as global superstars

Be fair mate, I wasn't born when some of these guys were scoring in the Bundesliga, hence why I recognise the players of later years.

I'd say none of the players from 2000 onwards are World Class. You reckon that Danish fucker Sand would be anywhere near the EPL top scorers charts?

A few you don't know were very good, half of them not even that. worldclass NOBODY.

The Bundesliga had worldclass strikers in the decades before the period I posted.

Yeboah

Scored a lot for Leeds too...

2008: De Guzman's year wrote:

Black Magic wrote:

2008: De Guzman's year wrote:

Black Magic wrote:Toni has to be in the top tier, he is World Class. The best striker in the Bundesliga.

He is, but not because he's the best striker in the Bundesliga.

You don't think he's the best ST in the Bundesliga?

He is the best striker in the Bundesliga & he is worldclass. But being hte best striker in the Bundesliga does NOT mean a player is worldclass, as my list prooves. Toni is an exception to the rule. Most of them are just good strikers. Nothing like Romario, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy, etc.

Anyone who thinks Kuntz ever was worldclass has absolutely no clue about football whatsoever.

Ah okay, I see what you mean.

I'm basing my criteria on Kuntz due to him playing for the National team in a major tournament. I have no idea whether he was World Class or not, (I was 2yo when he was the Bundesliga top scorer FFS!) but he must have been decent for him to manage to get into the national team.

let's just put it like this

in the EPL it's about mid-season

Santa Cruz has already scored twice as many goals for his club so far as he ever did in an entire season for Bayern

make of that what you want

as for leo

if you really believe that Toni is better now than Klose, I must say, that your 30-35 years spent as a fan were a waste of time

pick a different hobby, mate

become a spare-time taxi driver in Amsterdam

do some pottery

milk a cow or skate the ice

I don't care

just pick something you are good at

2008: De Guzman's year wrote:A few you don't know were very good, half of them not even that. worldclass NOBODY.

The Bundesliga had worldclass strikers in the decades before the period I posted.

I've heard of Kirsten before, how do you rate him?

@otto

Says about the most clueless poster about footy on this MB.

I'm talking about strikers, not the best versatile attacking player. By the way I rate Klose as worldclass.

Black Magic wrote:

2008: De Guzman's year wrote:A few you don't know were very good, half of them not even that. worldclass NOBODY.

The Bundesliga had worldclass strikers in the decades before the period I posted.

I've heard of Kirsten before, how do you rate him?

very good. not world class. was very consistent for a long period.

1983-1990 Dynamo Dresden 154 (57)
1990-2003 Bayer Leverkusen 350 (182)
1983-2003 Total 504 (238)

National team
1985-1990 East Germany 49 (14)
1990-2000 Germany 51 (21)

of course Kirsten was world class



problem is , as an EAst German after 89 he joined the Nationalmannschaft very late and never really played for a world class club team

the man was an animal though

at his best absolutely unstoppable

certainly better than Shearer or Owen

36-0tto wrote:of course Kirsten was world class



problem is , as an EAst German after 89 he joined the Nationalmannschaft very late and never really played for a world class club team

the man was an animal though

at his best absolutely unstoppable

certainly better than Shearer or Owen

because he was 'just' very good & not worldclass

2008: De Guzman's year wrote:@otto

Says about the most clueless poster about footy on this MB.

I will gladly bow to pirlo , and at times, although by no means always, to puro

that's where my humility stops

my ability to predict the future is , of course, second to none

in that sense, I will now tell you that Kuyt will NEVER become the EPL top scorer

Better than Shearer

Shearer single handedly won a team the Premiership...he left and they were relegated. Add to the fact Newcastle were a title challenging team when he went there and spent a few years in the CL...

Alan Shearer:
Southampton: 118 (23 goals)-He was only a teenager when playing for them too!
Blackburn Rovers: 138 (112 goals)-Yeah, I guess Ulf was better than this!
Newcastle: 303 (148 goals)-Once again a fantastic scoring record.

England: 63 (30 goals)-Surprise Surprise...Shearer is at it with a goal ratio of about 1 in 2 again!

Shearer>>>>>Ulf.

36-0tto wrote:to Kicker

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/startseite/artikel/168374/

so fckin what.....I've seen so called worldclass players doin worse than vdV or Diego.

KLose is very good, but has been - by his own standards - unimpressive the last two seasons. THat's why I didn't inlcude him on the top of my list. Toni has been very god in Italy, and I still rate him (was one of the few who had to defend him a couple of years ago), but nothing he has done in Germany so far has impressed me. Yes he's top scorer, but he gets 8 shots on a platter per game, and Klose (who's ideal as second striker), who hasn't been as impressiev as in the past, is still the more impressive of the duo IMHO.
Klose can be extrremily unselfish. Toni must still raise his game ea bit IMO, he's been taking it a bit too easy on the bundesliga so far. In Italy he was far more impressive.

Bottomline is: Both Toni and Klose have been much better in previous years. Boith are top quality strikers, but both have been putting less effort than previously.
I cannot call their form or their 'coasting' WC at this point.

36-0tto wrote:to Kicker

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/startseite/artikel/168374/

Well of course they aren't!

They're very good players but I wouldn't class either as anywhere near 'world class'

Not "anywhere near" is just ridiculous, come off it. By those standards only Drogba, Ronaldo and possibly Cesc could remotely be decribed as world-class in the PL.

By the way Tweeds you seem to be moving to where I've just left!!

Well VDV and Diego arent world-class! World class is a player that is the best in the world on that position! Only eleven players can claim this magic title! VDV, Diego and Ribery arent one of those 11!

Chins

Fair comment if you like, but that's why "world-class" gets to be so ridiculously overused a word as to be meaningless. "Would get into a world XI" means that pretty much no one is indisputably world-class – fine, let's wank off on that even more elitist definition of the term, but I'll pick you a team with zero "world-class" players who would batter your world XI.

Wahre motherfucking Geschichte.

Chins