Theo's not where I want him

Dr Cocks wrote:

I'm not going to say Walcott will make it, but Pierre is an idiot to write him off at 18.

I agree. So what would you say is an appropriate age to write off a player?

by the time he's 21 I'd be very surprised if he hasn't justified his £5m down payment, and if he's not one of the top 3 strikers at the club by the time he's 23 then he'll still be sold at a profit.

Dr Cocks wrote:

Hlebadinho wrote:

Dr Cocks wrote:A young English player at Arsenal hardly playing and failing to develop properly?


You astound me.


I can't wait for the L'Arse fans to see this. I demand an apology from EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE FUCKERS who mocked me for saying this would happen. And every single one of them who have been saying 'Walcott's been much better this season'. He hasn't. Your manager has admitted as much. Let's see if you've got the balls to do the same...

An apology for what exactly?

For mocking and insulting me when I didn't jump on the Walcott bandwagon despite the facts I saw him play (albeit on TV) before any of you Arsenal supporters even knew his name.

For constantly degrading me for pointing out that his development since he was 16 was virtually nil, by people who subsequently admitted to not having seen him play for Southampton.

That sort of thing.

Firstly, he has been better than last season. Whilst this probably comparable with saying that Pol Pot was better than Stalin, it nevevrtheless is true.

I see no improvement. Not since his Southampton days.

Secondly, the what Wenger has been saying is something that nearly every Arsenal fan believes as far as i can tell.

You've got to be kidding.

He's been a bit $h!t and not nearly as good as we hoped/expected.

No Arsenal fan before today said on this forum (or elsewhere that I know of) that Walcott has been a bit $h!t. They all said 'he's improving' and 'he's looked alright in recent games' and other euphemisms for 'he's a bit $h!t, really'. Now you're claiming that all think that. Are we to surmise that all Arsenal fans are liars and hypocrites, since they always either disguise what they think or say the opposite to it?

Really, you're providing me with gold here.

This does not mean that he is $h!t and will never be anything but $h!t, something which you apparently fail to see the difference between.

'Apparently', i.e. 'something you've just made up because you know I'm right but don't want to admit it'.


B- promising, but could do better.

Being poor and improving arent mutually exclusive states of affairs. I really dont know what people on this forum think of Walcott but my view of Walcott this season would be dissapointing and other Arsenal fans that i know in real life are even more critical of him.
As for recent games, the last game he played was against Brimingham and before then Tottenham. Against Birmingham his rating from an Arsenal fan site was 5 and the comment "well, he is fast..." Despite being a euphemism, i doubt it would take any great guesswork to guess the underlying comments there/
As for Birmingham, i have my doubs that you'll find any Arsenal player saying hes "improving" after his performance there. The only reason he didnt come in for more criticism there was due to te impressively more inept performances of Gilberto and Djourou.

Hlebadinho wrote:

Dr Cocks wrote:

Hlebadinho wrote:

Dr Cocks wrote:A young English player at Arsenal hardly playing and failing to develop properly?


You astound me.


I can't wait for the L'Arse fans to see this. I demand an apology from EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE FUCKERS who mocked me for saying this would happen. And every single one of them who have been saying 'Walcott's been much better this season'. He hasn't. Your manager has admitted as much. Let's see if you've got the balls to do the same...

An apology for what exactly?

For mocking and insulting me when I didn't jump on the Walcott bandwagon despite the facts I saw him play (albeit on TV) before any of you Arsenal supporters even knew his name.

For constantly degrading me for pointing out that his development since he was 16 was virtually nil, by people who subsequently admitted to not having seen him play for Southampton.

That sort of thing.

Firstly, he has been better than last season. Whilst this probably comparable with saying that Pol Pot was better than Stalin, it nevevrtheless is true.

I see no improvement. Not since his Southampton days.

Secondly, the what Wenger has been saying is something that nearly every Arsenal fan believes as far as i can tell.

You've got to be kidding.

He's been a bit $h!t and not nearly as good as we hoped/expected.

No Arsenal fan before today said on this forum (or elsewhere that I know of) that Walcott has been a bit $h!t. They all said 'he's improving' and 'he's looked alright in recent games' and other euphemisms for 'he's a bit $h!t, really'. Now you're claiming that all think that. Are we to surmise that all Arsenal fans are liars and hypocrites, since they always either disguise what they think or say the opposite to it?

Really, you're providing me with gold here.

This does not mean that he is $h!t and will never be anything but $h!t, something which you apparently fail to see the difference between.

'Apparently', i.e. 'something you've just made up because you know I'm right but don't want to admit it'.


B- promising, but could do better.

Being poor and improving arent mutually exclusive states of affairs. I really dont know what people on this forum think of Walcott but my view of Walcott this season would be dissapointing and other Arsenal fans that i know in real life are even more critical of him.
As for recent games, the last game he played was against Brimingham and before then Tottenham. Against Birmingham his rating from an Arsenal fan site was 5 and the comment "well, he is fast..." Despite being a euphemism, i doubt it would take any great guesswork to guess the underlying comments there/
As for Birmingham, i have my doubs that you'll find any Arsenal player saying hes "improving" after his performance there. The only reason he didnt come in for more criticism there was due to te impressively more inept performances of Gilberto and Djourou.

OMG are we not real?

Does it matter?

Dr Cocks wrote:He looked good in the Championship. Even there you could see he didn't have the technical ability or intelligence to use his pace properly.

Couldn't once get the better of Malky Mackay who is one of the slowest people to ever play.


Glenn - I'm an idiot for writing him off at 18 ?!

When do you think he will grow 5-6 ins in height, develop ball skills and learn to strike a ball - 22 ?

He's a tad $h!t, isn't he ?

Yes Pierre, you're an idiot for writing him off at 18. Maybe you have an agenda against Walcott or Wenger, I don't know, but I've watched Walcott several times for England U21's and think he's a decent young talent. At 18 he's going to improve technically and get stronger, if anything he's lacking confidence and perhaps missing his mentor Henry.

I doubt you know enough about him to confidently say he'll be a failure.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Dr Cocks wrote:He looked good in the Championship. Even there you could see he didn't have the technical ability or intelligence to use his pace properly.

Couldn't once get the better of Malky Mackay who is one of the slowest people to ever play.


Glenn - I'm an idiot for writing him off at 18 ?!

When do you think he will grow 5-6 ins in height, develop ball skills and learn to strike a ball - 22 ?

Why does he need to be 6ft 3in Pierre? I think he's talented enough, it's just that he isn't getting the opportunity to learn the game at Arsenal. I guarantee he would be alot better if he had stayed at Southamton.

Kimbo wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Dr Cocks wrote:He looked good in the Championship. Even there you could see he didn't have the technical ability or intelligence to use his pace properly.

Couldn't once get the better of Malky Mackay who is one of the slowest people to ever play.


Glenn - I'm an idiot for writing him off at 18 ?!

When do you think he will grow 5-6 ins in height, develop ball skills and learn to strike a ball - 22 ?

Why does he need to be 6ft 3in Pierre?

He doesn't - if he can strike a ball properly or if he has skill.

He needs one of these things though.

Glenn Hysén wrote:

That's like Henry without the height and strength - I bet that will be difficult for Premiership teams to contain

Wenger - Walcott can be a fantastic striker

Arsène Wenger has reiterated his faith in Theo Walcott following weekend reports that the Arsenal manager was not satisfied with the progress of his teenage forward.

The second anniversary of Walcott's move from Southampton to Arsenal passed on Sunday and the 18-year-old, who is expected to feature in tonight's Carling Cup Semi-Final at Tottenham, has scored four times in 24 starts for Wenger's side.

Walcott has been deployed largely on the right side of midfield but Wenger revealed last week that his future lies as a central striker. The Frenchman admitted that Walcott was not yet at the level "where I expect him to be" but was forced to clarify his position at Monday's pre-match press conference.

"I believe that I was completely misinterpreted with what I said," Wenger insisted.

"People asked me 'do you expect more from him?'. I said of course because I cannot expect less from an 18-year-old player and I believe that he is like every player and wants to play in every game.

"I am amazed that people are surprised that he is a little bit frustrated when he doesn’t play. It is part of his job and part of his improvement.

"Overall I am very happy with him, I have said many times that he will be a player through the middle, as a striker, because the timing of his runs, the quality of his runs is fantastic and he is a clinical finisher. The time he spends on the right will help him became a fantastic striker."

Mate, I saw him in the live yesterday, and he has not progressed an ounce in 12 months.

Nice try, but the stats speak for themselves:

All time playing career

Club	From	To	Fee	League		FA Cup		League cup		Other
Arsenal	20-01-2006		£ 5000000	9 (20)	0	2 (2)	0	10 (0)	2	4 (7)	2

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=41643

Lee Dickson wrote:Nice try, but the stats speak for themselves:

All time playing career

Club	From	To	Fee	League		FA Cup		League cup		Other
Arsenal	20-01-2006		£ 5000000	9 (20)	0	2 (2)	0	10 (0)	2	4 (7)	2

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=41643

4 in 54. Nice.

Even if we just go by his starts it's 4 in 25. And those four were against Chelsea reserves in the Carling Cup final (which already puts him ahead of Henry in the goals-finals stakes), 1 accidental deflection against Spurs, and 2 against the Czech pub side...

Honourable C*nt™ wrote:Mate, I saw him in the live yesterday, and he has not progressed an ounce in 12 months.

some players only start developing after the age of 20-21, what if walcott is one of those players?

i know people have a lot of agenda here, but writing off an 18 year old is taking it too far.

Name a few of these players who only start developing after the age of 21. I'm sure it won't be hard, since you're obviously an expert...

ribery, flamini, silva etc

Agooner wrote:ribery, flamini, silva etc

ManU's favourite child - Carrick, Villa and "Pirlo". Players that developed even later were Drogba, Mattaratzi(sp)and Toni.

shazlx wrote:

Agooner wrote:ribery, flamini, silva etc

ManU's favourite child - Carrick, Villa and "Pirlo". Players that developed even later were Drogba, Mattaratzi(sp)and Toni.

shazlx wrote:

Agooner wrote:ribery, flamini, silva etc

ManU's favourite child - Carrick, Villa and "Pirlo". Players that developed even later were Drogba, Mattaratzi(sp)and Toni.

Pirlo was the star player for Italy in the under 21 tournament in 2000.

Carrick was a regular in the West Ham side at 20, and was nominated for the PFA young player of the year that season (eventually won by Steven Gerrard).

Villa made his debut in the season he turned 20, so unless you watched him in training before that, you've now way of knowing.


So, aside from that utter Cr@p excuse for an argument, what have you got?

Agooner wrote:ribery, flamini, silva etc

Flamini has always had patches of very good form amongst long tides of mediocre games. Ribery I'll give you, and which Silva are you talking about?

Lee Trundle and Miroslav Klose are the archetypal late developers.

I didn't think Klose even became a professional until his was 23 or something around then.

Often its a case that a player breaks through at a young age, then doesn't develop too much to later go on and fulfull their potential - I'd say this is true for players like Pirlo and Carrick - both of whom hit the footballing scene with a reasonably sized bang, only to then be criticised for underachieving and then later to go on and fulfill that. Arguably also true of Barry.

Lucho Gonzalez, Liverani, Perrotta, Esposito, Iaquinta, Nedved..........

Wayne Rooney ?

johan neeskens wrote:Wayne Rooney ?

johan neeskens wrote:Wayne Rooney ?

Thats what Theo was going to be if I remember, Arsenal's Rooney.

Parks lives wrote:

johan neeskens wrote:Wayne Rooney ?

Thats what Theo was going to be if I remember, Arsenal's Rooney.

Rooney is faster than him as well and can do acrobatic celebrations