Serie A Transfer campaign

Bad summer for Serie A. Calciopoli, etc saw more talent movement out of Serie A than coming in....

Major Transfers Out:
1. Shevchanko
2. Cannavaro
3. Emerson
4. Zambrotta
5. Martins
6. Thuram
7. Tavano
8. Nonda
9. Cufre
10. Veron


Major Transfers IN:
1. Crespo
2. Gourceff
3. Oliveira
4. Maxwell
5. Maicon
6. Vieri
7. Doni
8. Potenza
9. Faty
10. Oguro

Overall, a huge loss of talent. Serie A needs to bounce back, the league has been leaking stars, and most clubs do not have the kind of money power they used to have... the money power seems to have shifted to EPL.

at the moment the league is in big demise.

and we know who is to blame. i think this scandal has put serie A another level behind the EPL and la liga IMO

Too dramatic of a post IMO. It was a very peculiar summer but I don't think there is talent drain.

Really the talent that left was out of Juve (3 players really of great concern); at one stage it looked worse.

As for the money...while it is true that Portsmouth are richer than let's say Palermo, it is also true that Milan, Inter and Juve (once they come back) are a lot more financially powerful than let's say Liverpool, Man U or Arsenal.

The money distribution in the EPL is evenly spread out. However, Serie A, as the World Cup proved, still produces one product better than the Prem...the players.

Pirlo, Kaka, Nesta, Buffon (in Italy still), Gattuso, Adriano etc. all play in Italy still.

Notice how not one player from Juve even seriously considered the Prem as a destination. Notice also how Brazilians (after all they are the best in the world) shun the EPL for La Liga and Serie A.

Out of the 10 players you have listed in the OUT column, only 3 can be said to have left because of Calciopoli. The rest was just business as usual.

Actually, the truth is, even in Serie B, the likes of Buffon, Del Piero and Trez will be paid handsomely-- better than they would at Arsenal or Liverpool.

bluenine wrote:Bad summer for Serie A. Calciopoli, etc saw more talent movement out of Serie A than coming in....

Major Transfers Out:
1. Shevchanko
2. Cannavaro
3. Emerson
4. Zambrotta
5. Martins
6. Thuram
7. Tavano
8. Nonda
9. Cufre
10. Veron


Major Transfers IN:
1. Crespo
2. Gourceff
3. Oliveira
4. Maxwell
5. Maicon
6. Vieri
7. Doni
8. Potenza
9. Faty
10. Oguro

Overall, a huge loss of talent. Serie A needs to bounce back, the league has been leaking stars, and most clubs do not have the kind of money power they used to have... the money power seems to have shifted to EPL.

Money power had long shifted to EPL. Serie-A and Liga had an advantage in luring the South American players and they still do. However with the EPL catching up on that front too, I believe both Spain and Italy will continue to lose talent to the richer EPL.

Even teams like Everton, Pompey and Boro have higher transfer and wage budgets than teams like Roma and Deportivo. Things definitely arent looking good for the two leagues. Maybe with the new TV deal might help, but unless the Italian league can market itself to worlwide TV audiences like the way EPL has done, it will struggle in the longer run.

We need Inter, Milan and Roma to make a strong statement in europe this season, only that could revitalise the league.

But Roma have a thin squad, and will surely focus on Serie A, so I can see them crashing out early...

Milan have weakened since last season IMO, and Inter can be.... well.... Inter!

Hmmm... hate to say it, but I hope Fiorentina, Juve and Lazio recover this season, and have a strong team for next.

italian_hammer(DEANO!) wrote:at the moment the league is in big demise.

and we know who is to blame. i think this scandal has put serie A another level behind the EPL and la liga IMO

bluenine wrote:We need Inter, Milan and Roma to make a strong statement in europe this season, only that could revitalise the league.

But Roma have a thin squad, and will surely focus on Serie A, so I can see them crashing out early...

Milan have weakened since last season IMO, and Inter can be.... well.... Inter!

Hmmm... hate to say it, but I hope Fiorentina, Juve and Lazio recover this season, and have a strong team for next.

italian_hammer(DEANO!) wrote:at the moment the league is in big demise.

and we know who is to blame. i think this scandal has put serie A another level behind the EPL and la liga IMO

i agree, also woul help for most italian teams to have a good UEFA cup (apart from palermo of course) its not good to see top stars leave. And i was shocked to see cannavaro and zambrotta leave serie A too.

i think Inter will have a good season though

But the most important change that is required is that the TV revenues need to be split equally between all Serie A clubs... Rossi is fighting for that, and I think that is vital... lets face it, clubs like Milan, Inter and Juve will always be rich - with or without the tV money.... its the smaller teams which need that money more desperately. what do you think??

I hope that is worked out asap.

i agree as i think it would strengthen the league....as whenever a smaller club have a decent player you know they cant afford to keep him as they need the say "£8m" to go and buy say 5 more players.

something you dont want with the serie A is what occurs in many smaller leagues, in which about 3 clubs never lose to smaller opposition (scotland,holland,portugal) whereas in EPL and la liga, anyone can beat anyone.

aby_gooner wrote:

bluenine wrote:Bad summer for Serie A. Calciopoli, etc saw more talent movement out of Serie A than coming in....

Major Transfers Out:
1. Shevchanko
2. Cannavaro
3. Emerson
4. Zambrotta
5. Martins
6. Thuram
7. Tavano
8. Nonda
9. Cufre
10. Veron


Major Transfers IN:
1. Crespo
2. Gourceff
3. Oliveira
4. Maxwell
5. Maicon
6. Vieri
7. Doni
8. Potenza
9. Faty
10. Oguro

Overall, a huge loss of talent. Serie A needs to bounce back, the league has been leaking stars, and most clubs do not have the kind of money power they used to have... the money power seems to have shifted to EPL.

Money power had long shifted to EPL. Serie-A and Liga had an advantage in luring the South American players and they still do. However with the EPL catching up on that front too, I believe both Spain and Italy will continue to lose talent to the richer EPL.

Even teams like Everton, Pompey and Boro have higher transfer and wage budgets than teams like Roma and Deportivo. Things definitely arent looking good for the two leagues. Maybe with the new TV deal might help, but unless the Italian league can market itself to worlwide TV audiences like the way EPL has done, it will struggle in the longer run.

I think the EPL will find it hard to catch up on the South American player front.

The climate and culture in England does not suit South American players...most of them anyway. Most South American players don't like the way football is played in England (minimal technique).

The EPL is also seeing something far more dangerous...a gradual erosion of football culture, primarily brought about by foreign investment. I would not be surprised if the EPL takes up the franchise system.

Also Man U and Arsenal are struggling financially. Glazer has riddled the former with debt and the latter are on a strict payback plan after their new stadium.

There are several things that ARE going for the EPL...collective negotiation of TV Rights is one of them. Nice stadia is another.

italian_hammer(DEANO!) wrote:i agree as i think it would strengthen the league....as whenever a smaller club have a decent player you know they cant afford to keep him as they need the say "£8m" to go and buy say 5 more players.

something you dont want with the serie A is what occurs in many smaller leagues, in which about 3 clubs never lose to smaller opposition (scotland,holland,portugal) whereas in EPL and la liga, anyone can beat anyone.

It's has been a one horse race in the EPL for 2 seasons now and a 2 horse race in La Liga.

Look at the small teams last season in Serie A...they pulled more shock results against Juve than most did against Chelsea or Barca.

One of the things analysts dread is there are falling attendances in EPL because of the predictability of the league. This could also have a severe impact on TV rights.

Perhaps. But teh trend is changing, my friend, and that is not good for serie A.

Sure, Serie A and La Liga still have the south american advantage... one of the reasons for that is the well documented problems Crespo and Veron faced in the EPL... but it takes just one success or two to completely change that... this season we have seen Tevez, Baptista, and Mascherano go to the EPL... what happens when one of them becomes huge in EPL?? Things can chnage very fast now, specially if the english clubs keep over performing in Europe.

You are right, there is no time to panic for clubs liek Inter, Juve or Milan... they will always be superpowers of europe, and they will never be cash strapped under their existing ownership... but where this may have a huge impact is the "smaller" clubs in Serie A... they are finding it more and more difficult to get stars from abroad... this situation looks MUCH better than it actually is only coz Italy have been producing too many talented players of their own. There are a 100 talented Italians in top flight football for every 50 english.

But that could start a different trend too... 10years ago, how many top Italians played abroad?? None!! Now we have teh Italian captain playing abroad, that was unimaginable even 5 years ago... yeah, so its special circumstance in this case... but consider this:

Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Cassano, Miccoli, Maresca, Tavano, Rossi........

All of these could be in the Italian squad in 2008.... can you imagine 7 foriegn based players in the Azzurri???

The trend is changing, and something needs to be done. Sharing TV revenues equally will be the first step in the right direction... trying to start the league on time will also help, so would reducing teh number of teams in Serie A back to 18.... just my thoughts.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Too dramatic of a post IMO. It was a very peculiar summer but I don't think there is talent drain.

Really the talent that left was out of Juve (3 players really of great concern); at one stage it looked worse.

As for the money...while it is true that Portsmouth are richer than let's say Palermo, it is also true that Milan, Inter and Juve (once they come back) are a lot more financially powerful than let's say Liverpool, Man U or Arsenal.

The money distribution in the EPL is evenly spread out. However, Serie A, as the World Cup proved, still produces one product better than the Prem...the players.

Pirlo, Kaka, Nesta, Buffon (in Italy still), Gattuso, Adriano etc. all play in Italy still.

Notice how not one player from Juve even seriously considered the Prem as a destination. Notice also how Brazilians (after all they are the best in the world) shun the EPL for La Liga and Serie A.

Out of the 10 players you have listed in the OUT column, only 3 can be said to have left because of Calciopoli. The rest was just business as usual.

Actually, the truth is, even in Serie B, the likes of Buffon, Del Piero and Trez will be paid handsomely-- better than they would at Arsenal or Liverpool.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

italian_hammer(DEANO!) wrote:i agree as i think it would strengthen the league....as whenever a smaller club have a decent player you know they cant afford to keep him as they need the say "£8m" to go and buy say 5 more players.

something you dont want with the serie A is what occurs in many smaller leagues, in which about 3 clubs never lose to smaller opposition (scotland,holland,portugal) whereas in EPL and la liga, anyone can beat anyone.

It's has been a one horse race in the EPL for 2 seasons now and a 2 horse race in La Liga.

Look at the small teams last season in Serie A...they pulled more shock results against Juve than most did against Chelsea or Barca.

One of the things analysts dread is there are falling attendances in EPL because of the predictability of the league. This could also have a severe impact on TV rights.

middlesbrough beat everyone of the top 4 at home last season
west ham beat arsenal at highbury last season

all results that occur with juve are invalid by the way

Agreed Forza. One thing that always seperated Serie A from others, was the strength and resilience of the smaller teams... In EPL and La Liga, the league was decided by the games between the top teams, but in Serie A, the scudetto is always decided by how well you play against the smaller teams...

But that is under threat now... slowly, the gap is widening, and the ambitions of smaller teams are becoming smaller. The trend is not good.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

italian_hammer(DEANO!) wrote:i agree as i think it would strengthen the league....as whenever a smaller club have a decent player you know they cant afford to keep him as they need the say "£8m" to go and buy say 5 more players.

something you dont want with the serie A is what occurs in many smaller leagues, in which about 3 clubs never lose to smaller opposition (scotland,holland,portugal) whereas in EPL and la liga, anyone can beat anyone.

It's has been a one horse race in the EPL for 2 seasons now and a 2 horse race in La Liga.

Look at the small teams last season in Serie A...they pulled more shock results against Juve than most did against Chelsea or Barca.

One of the things analysts dread is there are falling attendances in EPL because of the predictability of the league. This could also have a severe impact on TV rights.

bluenine wrote:Perhaps. But teh trend is changing, my friend, and that is not good for serie A.

Sure, Serie A and La Liga still have the south american advantage... one of the reasons for that is the well documented problems Crespo and Veron faced in the EPL... but it takes just one success or two to completely change that... this season we have seen Tevez, Baptista, and Mascherano go to the EPL... what happens when one of them becomes huge in EPL?? Things can chnage very fast now, specially if the english clubs keep over performing in Europe.

You are right, there is no time to panic for clubs liek Inter, Juve or Milan... they will always be superpowers of europe, and they will never be cash strapped under their existing ownership... but where this may have a huge impact is the "smaller" clubs in Serie A... they are finding it more and more difficult to get stars from abroad... this situation looks MUCH better than it actually is only coz Italy have been producing too many talented players of their own. There are a 100 talented Italians in top flight football for every 50 english.

But that could start a different trend too... 10years ago, how many top Italians played abroad?? None!! Now we have teh Italian captain playing abroad, that was unimaginable even 5 years ago... yeah, so its special circumstance in this case... but consider this:

Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Cassano, Miccoli, Maresca, Tavano, Rossi........

All of these could be in the Italian squad in 2008.... can you imagine 7 foriegn based players in the Azzurri???

The trend is changing, and something needs to be done. Sharing TV revenues equally will be the first step in the right direction... trying to start the league on time will also help, so would reducing teh number of teams in Serie A back to 18.... just my thoughts.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Too dramatic of a post IMO. It was a very peculiar summer but I don't think there is talent drain.

Really the talent that left was out of Juve (3 players really of great concern); at one stage it looked worse.

As for the money...while it is true that Portsmouth are richer than let's say Palermo, it is also true that Milan, Inter and Juve (once they come back) are a lot more financially powerful than let's say Liverpool, Man U or Arsenal.

The money distribution in the EPL is evenly spread out. However, Serie A, as the World Cup proved, still produces one product better than the Prem...the players.

Pirlo, Kaka, Nesta, Buffon (in Italy still), Gattuso, Adriano etc. all play in Italy still.

Notice how not one player from Juve even seriously considered the Prem as a destination. Notice also how Brazilians (after all they are the best in the world) shun the EPL for La Liga and Serie A.

Out of the 10 players you have listed in the OUT column, only 3 can be said to have left because of Calciopoli. The rest was just business as usual.

Actually, the truth is, even in Serie B, the likes of Buffon, Del Piero and Trez will be paid handsomely-- better than they would at Arsenal or Liverpool.

I agree with the TV rights bit.

As for the players...Miccoli is hardly a super talent IMO...he plays in the Portuguese league...do you think he went there because of the quality or a lack of options?

Actually 7 players is very low, I thought there were more. Cannavaro and Zambrotta (the latter wanted Milan)...are a blow. But Canna is 33.

IMO the biggest blow for Serie A this summer was Zambo leaving.

Rossi was plucked out of the youth system and has already stated that he wants a return to Italy. I would not be surprised if one of the big 3 pick him up.

I am not denying that the EPL is richer than La Liga and Serie A but the latter 2 will always house greater talent unless some fundamental things change in the Prem.

And at the World Cup all the Azzurri were from Serie A, that is a proud achievement. Like I said Juve going down is an exception that comes about once in a blue moon. The next two years will be strange for Serie A but things will return to normal...esp if the TV rights thing is sorted out.

I was just naming teh 7 top players... actually there are many mnay more... lupoli, maccarone, di vaio, Pistone, Moretti, cudicini, etc

Miccoli is a talent, and I would say that about 15 clubs in Serie A would liek to have him if they had the budget. Juve jus did the smart thing and sent him on loan to another league when they did not get the right price...

Thew tevez+mascherano deal really shook me... in the 90s, we would have expected only a small Italian club to be able to pull such a coup... like a parma... For example, just a few years ago, we had Adriano+Mutu+Gilardino playing for Parma, even after it became a small club post parmalat collapse, and look at them now... there are so many examples, the smaller clubs are getting weaker...its not just that the top 7 have become top 3, but also the smaller clubs are not competeting for europe anymore...

Hopefully Torino will go against the trend.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

bluenine wrote:Perhaps. But teh trend is changing, my friend, and that is not good for serie A.

Sure, Serie A and La Liga still have the south american advantage... one of the reasons for that is the well documented problems Crespo and Veron faced in the EPL... but it takes just one success or two to completely change that... this season we have seen Tevez, Baptista, and Mascherano go to the EPL... what happens when one of them becomes huge in EPL?? Things can chnage very fast now, specially if the english clubs keep over performing in Europe.

You are right, there is no time to panic for clubs liek Inter, Juve or Milan... they will always be superpowers of europe, and they will never be cash strapped under their existing ownership... but where this may have a huge impact is the "smaller" clubs in Serie A... they are finding it more and more difficult to get stars from abroad... this situation looks MUCH better than it actually is only coz Italy have been producing too many talented players of their own. There are a 100 talented Italians in top flight football for every 50 english.

But that could start a different trend too... 10years ago, how many top Italians played abroad?? None!! Now we have teh Italian captain playing abroad, that was unimaginable even 5 years ago... yeah, so its special circumstance in this case... but consider this:

Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Cassano, Miccoli, Maresca, Tavano, Rossi........

All of these could be in the Italian squad in 2008.... can you imagine 7 foriegn based players in the Azzurri???

The trend is changing, and something needs to be done. Sharing TV revenues equally will be the first step in the right direction... trying to start the league on time will also help, so would reducing teh number of teams in Serie A back to 18.... just my thoughts.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Too dramatic of a post IMO. It was a very peculiar summer but I don't think there is talent drain.

Really the talent that left was out of Juve (3 players really of great concern); at one stage it looked worse.

As for the money...while it is true that Portsmouth are richer than let's say Palermo, it is also true that Milan, Inter and Juve (once they come back) are a lot more financially powerful than let's say Liverpool, Man U or Arsenal.

The money distribution in the EPL is evenly spread out. However, Serie A, as the World Cup proved, still produces one product better than the Prem...the players.

Pirlo, Kaka, Nesta, Buffon (in Italy still), Gattuso, Adriano etc. all play in Italy still.

Notice how not one player from Juve even seriously considered the Prem as a destination. Notice also how Brazilians (after all they are the best in the world) shun the EPL for La Liga and Serie A.

Out of the 10 players you have listed in the OUT column, only 3 can be said to have left because of Calciopoli. The rest was just business as usual.

Actually, the truth is, even in Serie B, the likes of Buffon, Del Piero and Trez will be paid handsomely-- better than they would at Arsenal or Liverpool.

I agree with the TV rights bit.

As for the players...Miccoli is hardly a super talent IMO...he plays in the Portuguese league...do you think he went there because of the quality or a lack of options?

Actually 7 players is very low, I thought there were more. Cannavaro and Zambrotta (the latter wanted Milan)...are a blow. But Canna is 33.

IMO the biggest blow for Serie A this summer was Zambo leaving.

Rossi was plucked out of the youth system and has already stated that he wants a return to Italy. I would not be surprised if one of the big 3 pick him up.

I am not denying that the EPL is richer than La Liga and Serie A but the latter 2 will always house greater talent unless some fundamental things change in the Prem.

And at the World Cup all the Azzurri were from Serie A, that is a proud achievement. Like I said Juve going down is an exception that comes about once in a blue moon. The next two years will be strange for Serie A but things will return to normal...esp if the TV rights thing is sorted out.

But out of all those Italians you mentioned only 3 or 4 would be guaranteed and Azzurri place. Some of them are rank outsiders; how can we then consider them serious Serie A talent?

I think Spain have a bigger problem- Alonso, Garcia and Fabregas are huge, huge players. But they play in a foreign league.

I know the dynamics of some moves may be different but Woodgate, Beckham and Owen at one time were at Real. Some would argue that at least 2 of those 3 players were England's top players.

Your points about the disparity are correct however. I thought the bill was already passed for collective TV rights in 2007?

Also, all it takes is for an Italian team to win it this year in Europe

Do you remember the blackout between 1996 and 2003? Critics: Serie A is in decline, the football etc.

Then Milan, Inter and Juve reached the semis. Then the tune changed to English football is struggling to keep pace with Italy and Spain etc.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:It's a 2 horse race in La Liga.

Look at the small teams last season in Serie A...they pulled more shock results against Juve than most did against Chelsea or Barca.

its was a two horse race last season valencia and barça with valencia capitulating badly and allowing madrid who everybody agreed had a v poor season to finish 2nd. and malaga the bottom club by some distance took points off barça, atletico who finished mid table beat them twice. with a total of 5 losses 7 draws. how many games did juve actually lose? complete nonsense

Dude, look at the last few seasons, and you will see what we mean... lets take this decade for example...

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:It's a 2 horse race in La Liga.

Look at the small teams last season in Serie A...they pulled more shock results against Juve than most did against Chelsea or Barca.

its was a two horse race last season valencia and barça with valencia capitulating badly and allowing madrid who everybody agreed had a v poor season to finish 2nd. and malaga the bottom club by some distance took points off barça, atletico who finished mid table beat them twice. with a total of 5 losses 7 draws. how many games did juve actually lose? complete nonsense

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:It's a 2 horse race in La Liga.

Look at the small teams last season in Serie A...they pulled more shock results against Juve than most did against Chelsea or Barca.

its was a two horse race last season valencia and barça with valencia capitulating badly and allowing madrid who everybody agreed had a v poor season to finish 2nd. and malaga the bottom club by some distance took points off barça, atletico who finished mid table beat them twice. with a total of 5 losses 7 draws. how many games did juve actually lose? complete nonsense

Juve drew 10 games(!!) and lost 1. For bottom clubs to take points off of Juve is a huge deal.

January onwards Serie A was producing shock after shock.

Inter, Juve and Milan have always competed for the Serie A. Recently in Spain, it is becoming a Barca-Real race.

All 3 leagues have predictable winner(s); the prem even more so.

blue9
% cos the league sizes have varied but the no of games lost by the team finishing top (i´ve used juve stats for last season)

Italy
3%
10%
6%
11%
8%
8%
11%
11%
6%
8%

Spain
15%
10%
18%
10%
13%
15%
28%
18%
25%
9%


in italy prob slightly more draws by top team but this is much worse 5+ years ago when the league was arguably slightly more negative

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
Juve drew 10 games(!!) and lost 1. For bottom clubs to take points off of Juve is a huge deal.

January onwards Serie A was producing shock after shock.

Inter, Juve and Milan have always competed for the Serie A. Recently in Spain, it is becoming a Barca-Real race.

All 3 leagues have predictable winner(s); the prem even more so.

so 11 teams took points off juve but they only lost once, whereas barça dropped points against 13 clubs losing 6

You are going about it wrong... look at the top 2-3 teams in spain and Italy. Then look at the POINTS they dropped against the bottom ten teams. You will see that in Italy, those dropped points are more decisive than they are in Spain, when it comes to who wins the title.

I remmeber someone had done this analysis 4-5 yaers ago, and the results were shockingly clear.

Hopefully those stats will show even now.

The thing working in your arguements favour is that the top teams in Spain (Barca & Real) play a very attacking game (sometimes foolsihly so), and on an off day lose to just about anybody. In Italy, teams like Juve play a very tight game, and tho still drop a few points, they tend to ve very few "off" days... you will never see Juve lose 3-0, whereas it is possible with Barca.

Of course, this is all my observation... I haven't calculated stats, so could be wrong.

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:blue9
% cos the league sizes have varied but the no of games lost by the team finishing top (i´ve used juve stats for last season)

Italy
3%
10%
6%
11%
8%
8%
11%
11%
6%
8%

Spain
15%
10%
18%
10%
13%
15%
28%
18%
25%
9%


in italy prob slightly more draws by top team but this is much worse 5+ years ago when the league was arguably slightly more negative

bluenine wrote:You are going about it wrong... look at the top 2-3 teams in spain and Italy. Then look at the POINTS they dropped against the bottom ten teams. You will see that in Italy, those dropped points are more decisive than they are in Spain, when it comes to who wins the title.

Hopefully those stats will show.

The thing working in your arguements favour is that the top teams in Spain (Barca & Real) play a very attacking game (sometimes foolsihly so), and on an off day lose to just about anybody. In Italy, teams like Juve play a very tight game, and tho still drop a few points, they tend to ve very few "off" days... you will never see Juve lose 3-0, whereas it is possible with Barca.

Of course, this is all my observation... I haven't calculated stats, so could be wrong.

and who is going to, as i said the draws were pretty close for the last 5 years before that a higher percentage of draws in italy BUT thats due to the more negative play then ie a draw away from home v anybody was deemed a decent result. here its not seen like that so of course teams attack more, and that has changed in italy too. it would actually be possible to do the stats for spain with 4 or 5 hours work but i don´t have the time just for that. imho your wrong but it is prob close but the spanish teams at the bottom often nick points from top teams especially at the end of the season when there is usually a battle between 5 or 6 teams