African Football

The two most successful coaches in African Cup of Nations history are Africans Charles (CK) Gyamfi of Ghana and Hassan Shehata. Gyamfi won it an unprecedented three times in 1963, 65 and 1982 with Ghana. Interestingly he was replaced by Parreira on the eve of the 1968 competition and Ghana lost to Congo (Kinshasa). Gyamfi was relegated to assistant by the military government that toppled Kwame Nkrumah's government. He returned in 1982. Ghana has won it four times. Every time the coach was African.

And Shehata became the second most successful coach in ACN history in Ghana 2008. Why do you all think African coaches are more successful than Europeans and why do you think that African Federations keep hiring Europeans even when there are good African candidates and pay over the odds for lack of success. The last ACN had thirteen foreign coaches, mostly Europeans - many of whom failed miserably. Why for example did Benin hire Reinhard Fabisch after qualification was achieved by a local coach?

Ghana's FA is conducting a review of the coach Claude le Roy's performance. There is much dissatisfaction in Ghana over his performance against Cameroun in particular. His contract is scheduled to end in June 2008. Review should end in March. He may lose his job, yet if that happens European merry-go-round is likely to continue. Why? Also what lessons can be learned from Egypt's current set up.

While i understand the fustration from africans and i hear alot from my friends but it has not been all bad. the french coach that helped senegal was hailed for doing alot. Ivory coast has played some really good football with foreign coaches as has ghana in the last wc and last ACN. i gues you can compare it abit to premier league where the best players are often foreign and therefore alot of clubs has tried to get foreign coaches even though they arent that much better or even understand the country.

in the end i think the most important thing is whether or not the coach has an actually interest in the country and wants to live there and follow the league unlike Parreira for example and he is even coach for the host and he commands a big salary.

In Ghana there is considerable dissatisfaction. Le Roy got the job ahead of the current coach of Premier League side Liberty, Jones Attuquayfio. He is still the coach of the Black Meteors - the Under-23 side. The previous Ghana coach Dukovic (sp) took all the credit for Ghana's performance in Germany, yet Attuquayfio blooded the young talent and recommended them. Why doesn't he get the credit he deserves and why can't certain federations see what is in front of them. 2010 is best chance for Africa. Surely it is time to give Africans a chance to prove what they can do.

Didnt know about that but i thought Dukovic did a fine job. allthough overall i think african federations should first test the best in the country and if that doesnt cut it then look beyond the boarders wich doesnt have to mean to europe. i think there is too much pressure and it will prob end up with european coaches again. i just hope that they stick the coaches they choose and let them try do the job no matter where they are from because i dont want another WC where too many of teams are debutants.

2010 is Africa's best chance of doing well in the World Cup, but to achieve that they need to get their set-ups right. So far only Egypt has done that. At the last ACN there were 13 non-African coaches, some of whome were journeymen or worse. Jodar was nothing special with Mali, nor was Fabisch with Benin and Vogts was disastrous. Ivory Coast is difficult to assess as the Stielike family tragedy left little option but to change and Gily was at least familiar with the team. Carlos Parreira hardly covered himself with glory. Of the Africans even the worst Patrick Phiri came close to qualifying and might have done, but for a disastrous performance against Cameroun with woeful defending.

African federations need to give African coaches a chance. Let them learn abroad if necessary and then bring their skills back, but it needs to start quickly. Established African talent needs to get a chance and the leagues need reorganising. It is important for African and indeed world football that Africa does well in 2010.

@EMP

definitely an intersting topic, found this one about Charles Gyamfi at the web site of the german embassy

http://www.ghana.diplo.de/Vertretung/ghana/en/03/Nsiah/text.html

cheers

@ Katsche - 1974 Welcome to the board and thanks. By the way Kofi Nsiah is now the General Secretary of the Ghanaian FA and Tony Baffoe is a sports administrator. He was involved in the LOC or the recent ACN. I met him while there.

thanks EMP

I have been watching ACN games since 1994 on Eurosports but don't know to much about the background. I didn't know that there have been that many german coaches in Ghana. Most of them are totally unknown or at least only less regarded in Germany. Even Otto Pfister was unknown here until 2006.

I understand your point and the case of Berti Vogts is probably the clearest example how it can go wrong. Vogts concept of football
and the Nigerian way to play it are absolutely incompatible. So he went there to change something and failed because he doesn't
understand the mentality. So has the Nigerian FA ever given an explanation why they assigned Vogts? What did they expext from him
(besides titles of course)?

Btw Vogts and Pfister seem to be strong enemies, at least from what they say about each other in the media. V about P: "Where ever he worked he left burned ground." P about V: "One of these do-gooders and in the end they leave crying at the airport."

Interesting that Vogts and Pfister don't get on. I was there when Pfister blamed Nigerian FA for appointment of Vogts and he was right. Crazy appointment. It is sadly symptomatic of African mentality. They think European coaches are holy grail and overpay, whereas Africans are more successful. Vogts ws very strange appointment. His salary was paid by an external company - mobile phone one I think and if he is sacked they have to pay it, so they want him to stay. He will probably get sack and some heads in Nigerian FA will probably roll too as they should never have gone along with it. Check the Otto Pfister thread or ACN one. Kas poted a link about Vogts' contract. Don't buy Vogts' excuse. Adidas provided Nigerians with facilities they needed.

Ghana has had both Pfister and Le Roy and others and fact is all four successes were delivered by Africans - Ghanaians in fact. Will they ever learn that African coaches have head start because they know local players and how to play before they start? Crazy waste of talent.

Egypt learned from Ghana's set up in 60s. Sadly Ghana regressed. I can understand using experienced European coaches if idea is to bring on next generation of African talent, but this doesn't happen. European coaches get recycled all over Africa and talented African don't get a chance. This mentality could have deprived the world of CK Gyamfi and Hassan Shehata. What a waste that would have been. It isn't just German coaches that get recycled over Africa. Thre are a few French ones too and even a World Cup winning Brasilian. Angola looks worth watching though. They have a good young coach in Goncalves. Will be a force in Agola 2010 and possibly World Cup too.

It is impossible for Pfister and Vogts to get on: Vogts just got a system in his mind and tries to fill it up with players. Pfister sees the players and tries to improve their strengths. At least he says that he doesn't care to much about tactics in football. On the other hand he mentioned to be very proud that he discovered Alexandre Song before this tournament despite Cameroonian media where against him in this case.

Nigerians must be really disappointed:
http://www.vanguardngr.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2501&Itemid=50

Vogts should resign asap:
http://www.vanguardngr.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2827&Itemid=50

Thanks Katsche.


"Amokachi who is currently an assistant coach with Enyimba Football Club, resigned as an assistant coach of the Super Eagles, when Vogts took over March last year. He accused Vogts of turning his Nigerian assistants to ball boys and said he would have none of it. The former player known for his power play, quit because according to him, he was not ready to be a ball boy to the German.

Majority of football technocrats have called for Vogts’ sack, but the NFA saddled with the task of a 1.4 million dollar pay off has resorted to following due process in easing off the German.

Vogts expectedly has refused to resign despite public ridicule he has suffered before jetting off to Germany, he told NFA officials that he would continue with the job. In his own estimation the Eagles did not do badly at Ghana 2008, they were only ‘unlucky’."

The passages above show that Vogts is not just a bad coach, he is delusional and a racist Pr!ck too. Who the hell does he think he is to think Nigerian assistant coaches are his ballboys. The man is a complete cretin. And as for Nigeria being unlucky, I think the more appropriate term is that they played like Cr@p because they had an appalling coach who tried to impose a disastrous style of play while knowing less than f@ck all about Nigerian football. If he had any honour at all he would resign. Complete tosser and that is complimenting him! However, he has achieved the seemingly impossible of making me think even less of him than I did previously.

So Otto what do you have to say now that it appears that your heroes Pfister and Vogts can't stand each other?

Well EMP,
I think racist is a bit to much. Vogts has got delusional ideas and he had similar problems with players in the German team (like Matthaeus, Effenberg - to strong personalities). And he was the one to bring Asamoah into the German team.
But apart from this you are absolutely right: Vogts coaching an African team is plein nonsense. Give the credits to the Nigerian FA.

Some Links (unfortunately only in German, Otto should be interested):

"Pfister - the anti-Vogts"
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/0,1518,533882,00.html

"Pfister explains/introduces Africa to Vogts"
http://www.faz.net/s/RubFB1F9CD53135470AA600A7D04B278528/Doc~E75B7907D3A0B44DB8ABE8741C959994C~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

"Pfister: Vogts shot himself" (About the fact that he replaced Amokachi etc.)
http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/fussball/international/2008/02/09/pfister-vogts/kamerun-trainer,geo=3719466.html

It's the treating Nigerian assistant coaches like ball boys bit that made me call him a racist. At the very least it is disrespectful and ignorant and borderline racist, almot like he thinks that local coaches are little more than servants. Perhaps Amokachi took it a bit far, but I guess he thinks that Vogts had no respect.

i just think the allegation of racism comes to easily at times. and the Nigerian media have been pushing it that way. and it was not only Amokachi, also Vogts first German assistant resigned early. seemingly Vogts is close to persecution mania. he seperates people into friends and enemies and he has got only few friends. once he said: "when i walk upon water my critics will tell that i cannot swim".

but enough about Vogts - he will resign anyway. what do you know about the situation in South Africa. what are the people/media saying about the disappointing result? and has Parreira got similar problems? what is the prospect of the team? as for Nigeria 2 years are a short time to fix all the problems they have now and to improve to wc favourite.

They are disappointed with Parreira's performance, but his job was different. South Africa was all about preparing for 2010. They are a team in transition. My guess is that Parreira will survive this performance, as the task was to prepare to do well in South Africa. I think South Africa had vastly different expectations of this ACN. South Africa was pretty happy to be there and not disgrace themselves. Nigeria expected to win or t least get to semis. Losing to prennial rivals Ghana didn't help as well. They might have accepted it if it was anyone else. The test of South African credentials comes next year in the Confederations Cup. If they disgrace themselves then it will be back to the drawing board.

I met a former South African Under-23 coach while in Ghana. He has an interesting take on it. I have it as a word document. If you want it on a confidential basis, let me know by pm with an e-mail address and I'll send it to you. Also met Danny Jordaan while there. Very interesting views he has too.

EMP, thanks a lot. Have sent you a pm. You seem to have a wide knowledge of African football. I always enjoyed to watch Zambia great attacking football. But why can't they improve their defensive play.

Well I also met Patrick Phiri while there and the great Kalusha Bwalya. Zambia was actually decent, but for one match. According to Phiri they believed the media when told that they had no chance against Cameroun. He said the defending was awafuland that they were responsible for at least three of the goals - fair assessment. Their problem is that they were bit reliant on Chris Katongo and if he doesn't perform nor do they. Not sure that Phiri is up to scratch a a coach, but he maintains the were unlucky. They had the distinction of holding Egypt to a draw, so not completely waful. Even though Egypt always had extra gear Zambia was only team to play Egypt and not be beaten by them - a pretty impressiv achievement coming immeiately fter the 5-1 mauling.

@ Katsche: You have mail.

Thanks EMP - I posted you another pm

The first time I saw Zambia play was quite impressive for me: short passing at high pace a bit like Argentina. I think it was the ACN in South Africa and later they lost surprisingly the semi to Tunisia I think. Quite similar to this time.

Another great moment was to see Nigerias Yekini after he scored the first time for Nigeria in a world cup. He seemed to be praying and willing to eat the net up.

I think Bwalya had come to the end of his great career by then. I think it was amazing that Zambia got to the ACN final in 1994 just one year after the terrible crash that wiped out their great team bar Bwalya. That was an incredible job of rebuilding. Bwalyasays the world of football came together to help Zambia recover, like donating facilities, equipment etc. Tragic we will never how good they would have been if fate hadn't intervened so horribly.

EMP, Mohamed Zidan has been linked with Roma. People at my Roma forum are saying he isn't good enough and is too similar to Vucinic. What do you make of him and do you think he'd improve the team?

Cheers in advance.

he is very talented and he should be further then he is now. allthough im not sure he is fitting for roma. he isnt a clinical striker but a very good dribbler with pace and some great finishes at times.

Zidan is useful as a support striker, but he needs a coach who both believes in him, but also keeps his feet on the ground. He was the young player of the tournament. Not sure he fits into Roma's system, but he is a good player. If you want a striker, go for Amr Zaky.

What’s happening at Zamalek? Is Ruud Krol’s future certain plus I read they have a new director of football in the shape of Mohamed Helmi

Not sure regarding Krol's future, but had interesting conversation with Hassan Shahata while in Ghana that may give clue. Basically Egypt's infrastructure issuch that if Shehata wants training camps or friendly matches he will get them even if that means shutting down Egyptian league to accommodate him. If Krol objects to that, or is trying to impose alien style of play on Zamalek, he will have problems. Appointment of Helmi may well be to ensure that Krol stays on message. Not followed Egyptian league, but how successful is Zamalek currently. By the way Shehata is a legend at Zamalek, played most of his career there. If Krol is complaining about Shehata it won't go down well in Egypt or Zamalek. As you can imagine the man is extremely popular with both sets of fans.

I hope Krol knows what he’s doing, he is in his second spell at the club so he should know the criteria and culture of football; I don’t think he would do anything to upset the ‘balance’.

I think Zamalek are currently 5th in the Egyptian league, no surprise Ahly are leading the way http://www.angelfire.com/ak/EgyptianSports/league2007.html

I loved to see Krol back in European football, as a player he & Cruijff were the true “total footballers” no one has ever come close to them.

If Dutch FA have any sense at all, they will monitor situation carefully. Knowledge of African football and Egyptian in particular - clearly best in Africa - will be priceless in run up to 2010. Krol would be invaluable because of that. In fact never mind monitoring situation they should get him after van Basten goes.

Found this on the Guardian's website today. It talks about the plans of Danny Jordaan for the 2010 World Cup. Would appreciate your thoughts.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/03/05/south_africa_foresees_successf.html

Egyptian Premier League: Ahly stride towards title
It was all on the line for Al Ahly: a season-long unbeaten record, an 11-match winning streak and the bragging rights from arguably Africa's biggest derby. And although Zamalek held their arch-rivals for over an hour in Cairo, two goals in the space of eight minutes condemned Ruud Krol's charges to a 2-0 defeat.

That was not where the good news ended for Manuel Jose's side either. Al Gaish and Ismaily, second and third respectively going into the round, were held to 1-1 draws by Arab Contractors and Aluminium Naq Hammadi respectively, leaving Ahly 18 points clear of new runners-up Petrojet with ten matchdays remaining.

Big game: Al Masry moved three points clear of the foot by overcoming Ghazl Al-Mehalla 3-1.
Headline-grabber: Ahmed Fathi recently rejected a move to Zamalek, citing a desire to play abroad. Soon after, he joined Ahly and in his maiden Cairo derby, Egypt's youngest-ever player scored to set his employers en route to victory.

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Disappointed Krol’s team lost, but it was against a better side.