is BALLACK the biggest/best LEADER/captain in world football

I voted no, simply because he has yet to lead a team to victory. And also because he seems more the selfish type, rather than a leader of men. Effenberg was a captain, Ballack has not achieved that distinction yet.

Deco>>>>> Ballack...

Just a shame that Deco wants to leave

Bump?

Well, I just hope that he can keep this form at Euro 2008. It'll be crucial if we want to win the damn thing.

Matches don't get much bigger than this, great to see that he often seems to perform when it counts most.




Big game player

@ Blut

How many big games for chelsea has ballack played well in ?

A couple of CL matches come to mind, obviously. Even in his first, rather disappointing season.

And he kept them in the title race in the winter, when quite a few key players were injured / missing, and everyone was writing off their title chances already.

blutgraetsche wrote:A couple of CL matches come to mind, obviously. Even in his first, rather disappointing season.

He has been very, very poor in the big games in the Prem for chelsea. Almost non existent. I am not saying this purely to have a go at him, just ease the hype a little .

I like the guy, but am yet to see an all round performance from him that he may or may not have produced in his bayern days.

His best club matches were for Leverkusen, he did have some great ones for Bayern also though. At Chelsea, he usually played well in the CL because that suits his game more, especially in the first season when he had to get used to the league, a fact most people seem to forget. It's no coincidence that he performs much better in the league in his second year.
Add the lack of fitness (he didn't really have a break after WC 2006, when he played although he was injured), the Lampard factor, the lack of respect by his team mates (it was a blessing in disguise for him that most key players were missing when he came back from injury, so he had the opportunity to lead and boss the midfield), and what not, and you have an explanation for his rather disappointing first season.

For Germany, he had quite a few great 'big matches' as well, even during his difficult period at Chelsea.

P.S.: Chelsea still have no team, as could be seen today in the Drogba - Ballack incident.

Ballack seemes to be the guy in form for Chelsea for the past month (he isn't my most expensive EBcup player for no reason )

Only weak performance was in the CL against Liverpool.

Will be interesting to see what Ballack turns op on wednesday, I expect him to be good...

He's still growing in form, but the confidence at least has returned : I expect him to be in top form just at the time of the EC.....

I just hope that he won't get injured, stays fit and keeps his form. But knowing our luck, he probably won't.

blutgraetsche wrote:I just hope that he won't get injured, stays fit and keeps his form. But knowing our luck, he probably won't.

For some reason Ballack doesn't seem to be the type to get injured...

If I were a gambling man I'd put my money on Ballack having a great EC.

Although I have to admit that if he fails miserably, I won't be able to suppress a slight smile

Don't jinx it for us. A Dutch guy praising a German player = guarantee of failure!


Ballack actually does get injured often, he just recovered from a quite serious injury that could have ended his career. However, I have to say that he probably never looked so much in shape like he does today. The long break, and the special recovery training did him good obviously.

He wants to play for Germany until 2010. If he can keep this level of fitness, I don't see a reason why he shouldn't.

blutgraetsche wrote:Don't jinx it for us. A Dutch guy praising a German player = guarantee of failure!

Ballack & Klose are the Germans I really rate.

I always rated Kahn too, surprisingly as he gets older and starts making mistakes he also becomes more human....I'm even starting to like the guy nowadays

I had high hopes for Trochowski, but he's been letting me down badly lately.

Another German player that springs to my mind is Marcel Jansen, but I thought I saw most of you dismissing him as just a talent and not the real deal yet in some tread a week ago......which surprised me, because he looks a lot like the real deal to me.

Lastly there's Gomez, but just like Huntelaar I have to see final proof he can make it under massive pressure in the big time.....does look like a huge talent though

So who should be my new favourite German to support : Kroos ?

Marin should be a player of your liking, he reminds me of Haeßler / Littbarski. Kroos reminds me of Schuster, but both are very raw still, far from being more than just talents for now. A few years ago, Trochowski used to have bags of talent also, but talent alone was never enough to become a great player. I'm confident about Marin & Kroos though, they have the right attitude and mentality, and most importantly, they are hungry and ambitious, something Trochowski probably lacks most.

Gomez scored in the CL against Lyon, for example, he has scored against all big Bundesliga sides. Sure, he is far from being a finished article yet, but IMHO, he is the greatest natural talent we have on his position. He is a very complete striker, he has everything. Podolski is not good in the air and is not the most clinical finisher, Kuranyi's technique isn't the best, Klose's shot isn't good. Gomez has most (if not all) of their strenghts, and none of their weaknesses.
I'm just worried about his injury proneness, he is injured too often. Hope to see him stay fit for a longer period of time.

Jansen needs to work on his crosses foremost, and improve his defensive game. He is immensely talented, and I think that he will be a better LB than Lahm in future (not the better overall fullback though), since he is left footed and more dynamic. He is young still, and I'm optimistic that he'll improve his game.
Unfortunately, he seems to be injury prone also. A shame that so many talented youngsters these days are.

I agree with you. I always respected Kahn, but never really liked him. But ever since WC 2006, especially the last match he played against Portugal, he seems to have become a much more likeable person. Bayern will definitely miss him, and whoever follows in his footsteps will have one hell of a burden to bear.

blutgraetsche wrote:Marin should be a player of your liking, he reminds me of Haeßler / Littbarski.

He is Ajax bound, I hope.

Can't see him leaving Gladbach yet. They'll most probably be promoted to the 1. Bundesliga this season, and he played a significant part in that. He's been improving his overall game dramatically this season, he needs match practice foremost, and that's exactly what he gets in Gladbach. It's too early for him to move to a big club, let alone abroad, and Gladbach will be very reluctant to sell. He won't be cheap anyway.

If he has a good season in the 1. Bundesliga, most if not all big Bundesliga clubs will try to sign him in 2009. Hope Werder wins the race, we traditionally have good relations with Gladbach.

I will never forget the midfield battle between Cocu & Ballack in the Deutschland - Oranje game at Euro 2004, every ball was contested every challenge was made with no hesitation, those were the days. Two fantastic leaders.

I stand by my initial point, Ballack still needs to win a title with Germany to be considered a great leader. But those two players have / had everything to succeed.

Markus wrote:

I can't help it : both players look rather gay in that picture....

White Ferrari Man finds top gear to make United nervous

Michael Ballack's economy of physical effort enables him to shine when it comes to ball retention and distribution

Louise Taylor
May 6, 2008 2:13 AM

It is only months since a Chelsea coach dubbed Michael Ballack's beloved white Ferrari "the ambulance". It was a sarcastic reference to the Germany midfielder's then seemingly permanently injured state but a new year has brought an apparently reborn, fully repaired Ballack and he could yet leave Manchester United fans requiring urgent medical attention to mend a million broken hearts.

Sir Alex Ferguson's annoyance at Avram Grant's side's win on Tyneside yesterday can only have been exacerbated by the fact that it was Ballack who connected with Didier Drogba's cleverly delayed free-kick to head Chelsea into the lead. Manchester United's manager courted the former Bayern Munich player before Ballack decided west London was a more natural habitat for White Ferrari Man.

If Ferguson smiled broadly when he subsequently read Ballack complaining about extortionate house prices in the capital and when, a little later, the midfielder fell out with Jose Mourinho over his unilateral decision to allow a German surgeon to operate on a piece of rogue bone floating in an ankle, the Scot will certainly be frowning now.

Whereas the ankle incident was down to a lack of diagnosis in London allied to a communication breakdown between Chelsea's medical department and their former manager, there have happily been no crossed wires since Ballack's return from injury in January.

Gradually those Stamford Bridge supporters who suspected their expensively elegant midfielder was a dilettante prone to lingering over-long on the ball - perhaps tellingly Ballack did need to make two swift recoveries after getting caught somewhat negligently in possession early in the first half yesterday - and unsuited to the pace of the English game were forced into volte-faces.

They came to realise that Ballack's languid exterior is a deceptive facade, masking the sort of Teutonic efficiency which in recent weeks has proved instrumental in not only undoing Manchester United in the Premier League but helping overcome Liverpool en route to an impending Champions League final reunion with Ferguson. Moreover he can be relied upon to pass along the ground rather than punt through the air whenever feasible.

How Kevin Keegan's Newcastle could do with a similar central catalyst capable of slowing the game before using his wonderfully varied passing range to either keep things ticking over or deliver an incisive through-ball. It was no coincidence that a discreetly classy, defender-confounding, Ballack pass featured in the preamble to Florent Malouda's second here.

In some ways the German's game is more straightforward - far more Mercedes-Benz than White Ferrari - than the man himself. Some observers questioned his likely longevity in London when, with typical forthrightness, he expressed dismay at Mourinho's replacement by Grant. Fast forward to early 2008, though, and he had already come to be seen as one of the Israeli's key disciples, their burgeoning bond mirroring the growing trust between Ballack and his team-mates.

He lacks a stunning change of pace and prefers the ball rather than his legs to do the work but significantly yesterday Newcastle's Joey Barton ran around a lot to often minimal effect whereas Ballack's apparent economy of physical effort enabled him to shine when it came to ball retention and distribution. Ballack is high-calibre proof that modern midfielders do not always have to be uber-athletes.

It is highly unlikely Ballack boasts the fast-twitch muscle function gene which a sadly unnamed manager recently explored the legality of testing his players for. But happily for Chelsea he certainly does not lack the "big occasion" mentality, something even individuals as gifted as United's Cristiano Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney have sometimes struggled to muster, enabling him to perform on the grandest stages in the biggest games.

It helps that he has the sort of brain which enables him to function effectively in various formations as seen yesterday when Grant abandoned his renewed experiment with Drogba and Nicolas Anelka as an attacking pair and sent on Frank Lampard to augment midfield.

There was a time, early in Ballack's Chelsea career, when it seemed that, particularly when Claude Makelele was anchoring midfield, he and Lampard merely got in each other's way but these days Keegan would probably swap his cherished Soccer Circus business for such a refined central pairing.

In an age when football is under assault from the fast-twitch muscle gene brigade of managers turned would-be scientists, everyone should savour Ballack. Except, perhaps, Sir Alex Ferguson.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/05/06/white_ferrari_man_finds_top_ge.html

"fast-twitch muscle function gene which a sadly unnamed manager recently explored the legality of testing his players for"


Benitez?

On sport1.de in the mediacenter section their is an 11 min interview with Ballack. The first part about Chelsea and the second about Germany.

As usuall in his inteviews he comes across as a top bloke.

On the Grauniad piece, thanks Blut:

Interesting piece, which as the comments show only fails to take account of the amount of running he does and ground he covers, just as much as Lampard I believe if not more (e.g. last week's CL stats). It's a mistaken impression arising out of his style on the pitch that he's some kind of arrogant stroller.

Some classic cluelessness on this player classily confounded in the comments:

"Michael "Once upon a Time in Leverkusen" Ballack...shone breifly under Toppmöller long time back and has found some form only after six years and the media are abruptly going cobblers over him. I don't get this idea of Ballack being a big match player...where was Ballack in the confederation cup matches or in the World Cup quarter final against Argentina or in the big CL matches for Bayern.

Season after season it became obvious the best player in Volkswagen league should mean very little outside Germany and the player was clearly pedestrian not only in the CL but also in the internationals when Germany played Brazil, Argentina, Italy or France and other top teams when more skilled players ran rings around Germany's midfield.

Like Lampard he can fit well in a three men midfield along with Essien and Makelele and is strong and athletic, with good work rate, matches some axioms defined in a "Little Englanders" dictionary about "Great Midfielders" but nothing Exceptional...except he can treat the round object better than many English midfielders but United currently have six or seven players who can use the same object better than Ballack.

United missed Ballack...May be in 2002 when he moved over from Leverkusen but not the Ballack who played at Bayern Munich"

"Cannot figure out how posters make sweeping assertions like Ballack was class for seven years and its because of his departure Bayern are struggling!

To put things in perspective

Ballack shone under Toppmöller and Rummenigge after all hype took him and his sidekick Ze Roberto over to Munich for a then German transfer record. The same season Bayern were clubbed with Galatasary, Milan and Deportivo in the CL. Der Kaiser, Hitzfeld and Rummenigge claimed "we have players" yet Bayern were thrashed from pillar to post and couldn't even qualify for the UEFA cup finishing last in their group with Ballack for the most part mediocre when it mattered most.

Needless to say they won the Bundeliga with Ballack being adjudged "Bundesliga player of the year". Next season even against a weakened Real Madrid (minus Makelele with the talismanic LA Galaxy Megastar as the midfield general) Bayern couldn't cut the mustard against them.

Deutsche media dubbed the match laughably as the clash of titans "Zidane vss Ballack" but predictably it turned out to be a damp squib with Der Kaiser purring his tirade against Ballack "Forget Ballack, lets laugh at Zidane" and it became a routine to beat up Ballack everytime they fluffed in CL.

As said season after season twas clear the best player in the Volkswagen league should mean very little outside Germany and the player was clearly pedestrian not only in the CL but also in the internationals.

Bloggers tend to rate a player based on a great season he had very long back conveniently ignoring the poor patch he had run through out the season. As for German tactics in the international football be it Klinnsman or Voeller..Its all about diving around the 20 yard box..Ballack takes freekicks with both Podolski and Klose trying somehow to head the ball in.

In the last three months or so he is in a fine form (his best run after being in and out of team for more than a season and half) and and it gets acknowledged as he plays in a top flight league compared with Bundesliga yet I haven't seen him putting up a consistent run to be rated amongst the best.

Its hard to club him as a box to box player along with the likes Keane, Davids or Gerrard or a creative midfielder in the league of Fabregas or Scholes who can move the ball exceptionally well. He has a physical presence in the midfield with good technical ability but not that great."

...

"@RedVijay

I dont know what planet you were one/are on but your comments are absolutely atrocious at best.

First of all get your facts straight and dont ignore facts that dont support your argument.
I will go to the UCL but saying that German tactics consist of diving in and around the 20 yard region hoping for free-kicks that Ballack takes for Klose and Podolski shows just how ignorant a football follower you are. And just how your anti-German bias shines through. For the record Ballack doesnt take free kicks, he waits in the box to put them in;)
Hence a goals per game ration better than Michael Owen


Now on to the Champions League.
In the 01-02 season, Ballack was the best player in the Champions League bar none, time and again. He scored goals, dictated play and led his team like a titan against all opposition. He played in the final despite a foot injury and was largely nominal even as Bayer played a good game and only lost to a wonder strike from Zidane.
For Bayern, in the first season, Ballack was deployed as a rank defensive central midfield player as they preferred to have two hanger ons in the middle of the park. They wanted him to fill Effenberg's tactically rigid role, while Ballack was a more finding space player.
I am sure you watched none of the Champions League games. Those two 2-1 defeats against Milan were two of the best CL games that season and Bayern only lost due to the intervention of Pippo Inzaghi and the fact that they had failed to shore up a defence that lacked the presence of Patrick Andersson.
The next season they lost to Real in the second round after tying 1-1 at home. They lost the away leg 1-0 and Zidane had an absolute belter of a game. Pizarro missed a sitter and Bayern went home.
The next season Ballack was very good. Bayern lost both games against Juventus to late late goals but they embaressed Arsenal at home and had it not been for two deflected goals by Chelsea may have won the quarterfinal as well.
The following season again was Milan to be Bayern's bane although Ballack scored an absolute scorcher of a goal.

U say Ballack has been pedestrian at international level. Perhaps the most misguided comment ever. Have you seen his international record, the goals he has scored, the teams he has scored against.

Ballack is not a midfield runner like Davids yet you watch the Euro encounter between the two, see how Ballack owned Davids in that match. A big match that was wasnt it?
He owned Keane in 2002 scoring to put Utd out of the CL.
I think the next time you judge a German player, take off your anti-teutonic glasses before you do so.

Also, it comes as no surprise that you rate Steven 'thank Didi Hamann for the CL' Gerrard "

I decree the final comment of this post as ANTI-ENGLISH, and demand it be removed!

- Yes Ballsack is proving to be an excellent player this season.

Totally different player to Gerrard mind.

I'd compare him more to a mix between Carrick and Hargeaves - strong, good energy, good bll retention

Classy player finally starting to really show his worth.

CL final with him and Flumps against Carrick and Scholes/Anderson/Hargreaves should be interesting

"a mix of Carrick and Hargreaves"

You are a one, Bernd – you are clearly anti-someone. I think Shaz would say he's more of a "CM" even than either of those two (both of who I rate) and of course more than Gerrard.

At least it's "Freu-Tag"

Seriously though, I do think there ought to be some future in a Carrick-Greavsie partnership, even though given the teams they play for I have no interest in seeing it prosper

Allez les rouges wrote:"a mix of Carrick and Hargreaves"

You are a one, Bernd – you are clearly anti-someone. I think Shaz would say he's more of a "CM" even than either of those two (both of who I rate) and of course more than Gerrard.

At least it's "Freu-Tag"

Seriously though, I do think there ought to be some future in a Carrick-Greavsie partnership, even though given the teams they play for I have no interest in seeing it prosper

Well whoever made the last Gerrard comment was comparing Ballack with Gerrard, and in actual fact, it makes more sense to compare his style with Carrick/Hargreaves.

I was not commenting on who was better per se old bean

Gerrard is an instinctive gung-ho footballer with amazing energy, drive and first time intuition,

Ballack is more deliberate and controlled, like Carrick,

but with Hargreaves' power and energy.

I've been very impressed with him recently - and deserves to be hyped up currently because he's finally proving his worth at Club level for Chelsea, who have been paying him 132,000 for the privilege (before you bring up how excellent he has been for Germany ;-) ).

So, all together now! :

Ballack Ballack Ballack! Fussball Fussball Fussball! Captain Captain Captain! Man Shaft Man Shaft Man shaft! Deutschland Deutschland Deutschland!

Oi, I started that

Holland´s captain > Germany's captain