Ballack's 2002 nightmare

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/7407199.stm

This article harks back to his nightmare in 2002...when Bayer Leverkusen ended up losing in the final of the CL, final of the German Cup, and lost the league on the last day. In addition, Ballack lost the World Cup final with Germany (though he didn't actually play).

IMO such defeats are always much harder than having a totally trophyless season with no chance of winning anything, because you have that feeling of being so close and playing so well throughout the season, yet ending up in 2nd right at the last stage.

That sequence of results must have been ridiculously tough for him to recover from mentally...personally it'll be nice to see him get some redemption on Wednesday. Doubt it'll happen though.

You better hope he does, because the German press have already got their knives out. They started with the "ewiger Zweiter" ("always second") sermons last week already, when Chelsea came second in the league. He does have a lot of enemies back home.

God has mercy, the (German) press has not.

I was always under the impression that the German press are huge Ballack fans, and would actually be sympathetic for him! Guess not

No way. While he has some friends in the German media these days indeed, he still has a lot of enemies (the Munich press in particular...). And he always had difficulties to get the respect and admiration he deserves, both by the media and fans back home, he basically was always questioned during his career.

The fans finally have learned to respect their 'Kapitän', the press are way more ambivalent.

Let’s hope Ballack fails, love to see what the German media have to say.

Ballack deserved everything that season. He was phenominal!

So what was the reaction to Ballacks failure in the German press?

Pretty bad for what I know , Bavarian media is not that kind.

Example: http://www.sportbild.de/index.html (main page)

"Ballack curse remains - danger for Euro 2008?"

etc.

Like in the 2002 WC, Ballack I expect to perform like a lion for Germany …

On the build up to the game on ITV, there was a interview with Ballack, I’m not sure if this is true but Der Kaiser previously had said he goes ‘missing’ in the big games, did he really say this.

blutgraetsche wrote:Example: http://www.sportbild.de/index.html (main page)

"Ballack curse remains - danger for Euro 2008?"

etc.

Whats the opinion in Werder Blut ?

Markus wrote:Like in the 2002 WC, Ballack I expect to perform like a lion for Germany …

On the build up to the game on ITV, there was a interview with Ballack, I’m not sure if this is true but Der Kaiser previously had said he goes ‘missing’ in the big games, did he really say this.

I dont know about that. i think he prob said that because he has been on the losing side every time.

Ballack has been accused of basically everything during his career. For Germany, he has two chances left to prove his critics wrong (he has never played a final for his country btw.) - this year, and the 2010 WC. If he doesn't win a title, he will never be seen as one of the greats over here, no matter if he finally manages to win the CL with Chelsea in future or not.

Considering his form over the last couple of months, I dont think anyone can deny he was dissapointing last night. Plenty of shots into row Z, a lot of overhit passes,

defensively he was good in the second period of the game, and he certainly started to come into it more as United's players tired - particularly Scholes (asthmatic 33 yr old) and Carrick (still too lightweight) who had run the show in the first half.

No doubting his penality though, and his pass to Lampard for the shot that hit the post. Two moments that prove he is a class player, but just hasnt produced it enough to be classed as a great. As the build-up to the final was aired here, a very good point was made:

Ballack is the product of a very dodgy crop of German players (circa 1998-2004); he stood out because quite frankly, he had little competition.

The question must be asked -would Ballack really have become the superstar that he is had he been born in earlier or later German generations? Is he comparable to the likes of Effenberg, Sammer, Scholl from before? Would he have been the star man of germany's 1996 side? Personally, I dont think so. An excellent player no doubt, but certainly not a "great".

That is a very old discussion in Germany Bernd. Ballack, like the other players of his generation, had to prove everyone wrong from the beginning. Yes, it was easier for him to stand out, but it was much harder to get recognition also, for various, often discussed reasons.

And it goes both ways. It's easier to be successful with a team filled with class players, in which you may not be the only 'star' player. It's much harder if the hopes and dreams of a nation weigh on your shoulders, when you are expected to deliver results with teams that lack quality. Less stable players like Deisler were ruined by this pressure.

I'd say that Ballack probably would have been an even better player in a different era. He would have been more successful at least.

He is a great player, but to be considered as one of the greats, he needs to win a title with Germany. The new generation of players do have the quality that was missing for years, due to huge mistakes in the education of the football youth. There are no excuses, only titles count in the end.

blutgraetsche wrote:That is a very old discussion in Germany Bernd. Ballack, like the other players of his generation, had to prove everyone wrong from the beginning. Yes, it was easier for him to stand out, but it was much harder to get recognition also, for various, often discussed reasons.

And it goes both ways. It's easier to be successful with a team filled with class players, in which you may not be the only 'star' player. It's much harder if the hopes and dreams of a nation weigh on your shoulders, when you are expected to deliver results with teams that lack quality. Less stable players like Deisler were ruined by this pressure.

I'd say that Ballack probably would have been an even better player in a different era. He would have been more successful at least.

He is a great player, but to be considered as one of the greats, he needs to win a title with Germany. The new generation of players do have the quality that was missing for years, due to huge mistakes in the education of the football youth. There are no excuses, only titles count in the end.

Senor Woody wrote:

Ballack is the product of a very dodgy crop of German players (circa 1998-2004); he stood out because quite frankly, he had little competition.

I disagree.

The Ballack that was playing for Bayern, before he left for Chelsea, was a force of nature : he was playing world class and was one of the best players in the world at that moment.

(and no : I'm not taking the piss, I'm deadly serious)

Axeslammer wrote:

Senor Woody wrote:

Ballack is the product of a very dodgy crop of German players (circa 1998-2004); he stood out because quite frankly, he had little competition.

I disagree.

The Ballack that was playing for Bayern, before he left for Chelsea, was a force of nature : he was playing world class and was one of the best players in the world at that moment.

(and no : I'm not taking the piss, I'm deadly serious)

thats quite simply not true...

...In your opinion.

lol most guys here really c**ts

few weeks ago he was world class, now he is $h!t

english guys dont have a clue about football, you are all brainwashed from your media

for you players only good when they play like ronaldo, messi, ronaldinho

ballack is not that goalscoring player now that he was for leverkusen, or bayern, since the wc06 he plays another role,

the goals from ballack are a plus, but its not the most important thing for ballack

only true football experts will realise that

Toni Kroos wrote:lol most guys here really c**ts

Especially Otto.

Toni Kroos wrote:lol most guys here really c**ts

few weeks ago he was world class, now he is $h!t

english guys dont have a clue about football, you are all brainwashed from your media

for you players only good when they play like ronaldo, messi, ronaldinho

ballack is not that goalscoring player now that he was for leverkusen, or bayern, since the wc06 he plays another role,

the goals from ballack are a plus, but its not the most important thing for ballack

only true football experts will realise that

how can a real football expert have a favourite best player whos hardly ever played?

Toni Kroos wrote:lol most guys here really c**ts

few weeks ago he was world class, now he is $h!t

english guys dont have a clue about football, you are all brainwashed from your media

for you players only good when they play like ronaldo, messi, ronaldinho

ballack is not that goalscoring player now that he was for leverkusen, or bayern, since the wc06 he plays another role,

the goals from ballack are a plus, but its not the most important thing for ballack

only true football experts will realise that

He's not $h!t, Im not sure anyone has ever said he is - he just played poorly last night.

And on the whole is an excellent player, but not a great one. End of story

By the way - you were ALWAYS saying Flumps was $h!t, when he clearly isn't. So pot, kettle, black mate: you must be a c**t too

Senor Woody wrote:

Toni Kroos wrote:lol most guys here really c**ts

few weeks ago he was world class, now he is $h!t

english guys dont have a clue about football, you are all brainwashed from your media

for you players only good when they play like ronaldo, messi, ronaldinho

ballack is not that goalscoring player now that he was for leverkusen, or bayern, since the wc06 he plays another role,

the goals from ballack are a plus, but its not the most important thing for ballack

only true football experts will realise that

He's not $h!t, Im not sure anyone has ever said he is - he just played poorly last night.

And on the whole is an excellent player, but not a great one. End of story

By the way - you were ALWAYS saying Flumps was $h!t, when he clearly isn't. So pot, kettle, black mate: you must be a c**t too

Like that was ever in doubt...

in his poistion he is the best in the world

its not his fault that he lost yesterday

terry that c**t couldnt handle the pressure, typical english, only english guys slide in such important moments

Toni Kroos wrote:in his poistion he is the best in the world

its not his fault that he lost yesterday

terry that c**t couldnt handle the pressure, typical english, only english guys slide in such important moments

Anelka and Ronaldo are English?

his penalty was the most important for chelsea

thats what i call a real captain, he failed, like england failed to be a big football nation

Toni Kroos wrote:in his poistion he is the best in the world

its not his fault that he lost yesterday

terry that c**t couldnt handle the pressure, typical english, only english guys slide in such important moments

Terry that c**t had a better game than Ballack did and without him they wouldnt have even made it to penalties. His clearance off the line from Giggs was game changing.

Yep, it was a typically $h!t English penalty, Terry bottled it as all Englanders do in penalties,

but he wouldnt have taken it if Drogba hadnt been sent off.

I put it to you that you're being a c**t- blaming everyone else other than Ballack, despite playing below what is expected of him

lol giggs wounded terry, hail him for that