Why the English cannot score penalties

The answer is twofold and is accounted for the by english mentality compared with the foreign mentality.

English: Penalties are a lottery, its in the lap of the Gods and down to luck
Foreign: No they aren't, there is no luck involved; just judgement, estimation and technique as well as mental strength. Penalties are an aspect of the game that need to be practised and viewed in the same light as long range passing, ball skills or shooting.

English: Its all about whos got the bottle to take one.
Foreign: Its all about whos got the bottle to score one.

and those are the two primary reasons I believe that we lose on penalties so often, i'm not saying that we (the English) were poor the other night, but with the subject being talked about what with John Terry's miss i thought i'd give my opinion.

A lot of players slipped around the pitch on Wednesday - it wouldn't surprise me if this played a small part in Terrys penalty.

Football Genius wrote:A lot of players slipped around the pitch on Wednesday - it wouldn't surprise me if this played a small part in Terrys penalty.

I would say it did. same with Beckham against Portugal but nobody really believed him even though Rui Cost made the same mistake.

with that said it gets worse every time england loses a penalty shoot out.

Penalties *are* a lottery

Axeslammer wrote:Penalties *are* a lottery

So why do germans always win?

Axeslammer wrote:Penalties *are* a lottery

give me the odds of England or Holland NOT winning a penalty shoot out at a real lottery and I'll be a rich man

if the two countries won and lost 50% of their penalties: fair enough

they lose 100% and Germany win 100%

some lottery, heh

Axeslammer wrote:Penalties *are* a lottery

No they are not. And Rasiak is right, as long as you actually believe that, you will continue to suck at them.

I've developed some kind of sixth sense when it comes to pens. I can almost always correctly predict if someone is going to score or not. And I knew, as can be read in the match thread, that Chelsea were going to lose the penalties, because Cech sucks at them. A factor that is often forgotten, the goal keeper.

You need luck also, of course. But it's much more than just luck.

the main problem with this analogy now is that either way an english team would have lost on pens.

Super Madrid wrote:
So why do germans always win?

We don't always win, we actually lost a penalty shootout against the CSSR in the 1976 EC final. But since WW2, only two German players have not scored their penalties in a penalty shootout. Uli Hoeness in 1976 (cost us the title), and Uli Stielike in 1982 (had no consequence, still won the shootout).

blutgraetsche wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:
So why do germans always win?

We don't always win, we actually lost a penalty shootout against the CSSR in the 1976 EC final. But since WW2, only two German players have not scored their penalties in a penalty shootout. Uli Hoeness in 1976 (cost us the title), and Uli Stielike in 1982 (had no consequence, still won the shootout).

Some letting players called Uli take pens eh.

Uli Hoeness (Bayern's sporting director) is still ridiculed for that miss. Germans neither forgive, nor forget failure like that...

26-Otto-19 wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:Penalties *are* a lottery

give me the odds of England or Holland NOT winning a penalty shoot out at a real lottery and I'll be a rich man

if the two countries won and lost 50% of their penalties: fair enough

they lose 100% and Germany win 100%

some lottery, heh

It is as much a lottery as the draw for the World Cup 2006!

For those that claim there to be luck involved.

Precisely what element of chance is involved at all?

Goalkeepers do not or certainly should not "guess" which way they are going to dive, they judge the players run-up and dive accordingly.

Failing to hit the target or hitting the penalty too straight is not "lucky" either, its correct or incorrect technique.

You can certainly eliminate most of the probability on penalties...if your technique is good enough, and you've practised enough, then there are spots in the goal where you can put the ball and the keeper will never reach it. Provided you put the appropriate power of course.

Its purely psychological, nothing more.

Its not rocket science- the Germans have built a history of success on penalties, and the more they win, the stronger that menatilty becomes.

The English have had the opposite - more losses on penalties breeds less confidence.

Put simply, the day Germany lose a penalty shoot out, and they will, this will sow seeds of doubt and they wont find it so easy in the future

Ditto England, win a few penalty shoout outs and it becomes less of an issue

Lets not forget that last night 4 out of 5 English players scored theirs, so its being blown out of proportion in this instance, hence part of the problem

Senor Woody wrote:Its purely psychological, nothing more.

Its not rocket science- the Germans have built a history of success on penalties, and the more they win, the stronger that menatilty becomes.

The English have had the opposite - more losses on penalties breeds less confidence.

Put simply, the day Germany lose a penalty shoot out, and they will, this will sow seeds of doubt and they wont find it so easy in the future

Ditto England, win a few penalty shoout outs and it becomes less of an issue

Lets not forget that last night 4 out of 5 English players scored theirs, so its being blown out of proportion in this instance, hence part of the problem

Certainly a case for this idea. Germany seems like a good example for that but still think good technique has something to do with it. i do believe that you can train in penalties.

Senor Woody wrote:Its purely psychological, nothing more.

Its not rocket science- the Germans have built a history of success on penalties, and the more they win, the stronger that menatilty becomes.

The English have had the opposite - more losses on penalties breeds less confidence.

Put simply, the day Germany lose a penalty shoot out, and they will, this will sow seeds of doubt and they wont find it so easy in the future

Ditto England, win a few penalty shoout outs and it becomes less of an issue

Lets not forget that last night 4 out of 5 English players scored theirs, so its being blown out of proportion in this instance, hence part of the problem

That is too simple Pele. First of all, as I've mentioned earlier in this thread already (you seem to have missed that), Germany have actually lost a penalty shootout, and it had severe consequences even, since we lost an European title because of it. Still, we managed to win every penalty shootout ever since. Furthermore, Argentina had not lost a penalty shootout in a WC prior to WC 2006 either, but still lost against us.

And if Germans are only so good at the penalties because of their "history of success", while Englishmen are so bad because of their "history of failure", how do you explain that a player like Lampard usually takes the penalties for his club Chelsea, and very rarely misses, while he bottles them for England (e.g. against Portugal in 2006), while for Ballack, it doesn't seem to make a difference at all? According to that logic, Ballack should be "less confident" if he takes a penalty for Chelsea at least, since he does not have that kind of history to give him a "morale boost" there, but he isn't.

I wonder how much of it is down to some teams simply being too presumptuous or assured or whatever; and, on the other hand, other teams being sticklers for practice and all-round preparation. I think Pele's point is very valid, but that technique plays a part as well - I'm not sure that a high level of general footballing technique is so important when it comes to penalties (I don't think it is significant here that some English players lack the footballing technique of their foreign counterparts), but I think penalty taking technique is important, and that comes just through practice. I wonder whether some teams simply don't practice so much, and assume, quite naturally, that, being professional footballers, they will be able to pick their spot from twelve yards out when the time comes.

On another note, because it's a point I've mentioned in another thread which I think is somewhat interesting - it seems to me that penalties fundamentally alter the game being played. Football is a team game, where team play excels, where individual talents reach their potential when they become attuned to the team, but in a penalty shoot-out everything is about the individual. I don't see any real correlation between this and the fact that England are bad at shoot-outs, Germany good, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Italy have been awful at penalties, Euro2000 really changed that.

I think it mostly depends on what has happened in the 120 mins preceding the penalties. Against Holland, you just knew Italy would win: Holland had missed two penalties, and Italy were brimming with confidence. Italy - France: Zidane had been sent off and the Italians really believed they were destined to win the World Cup (I am simplifying here). Milan-Liverpool (2005): I think it was evident that Milan would lose this, even Paolo Maldini admitted as much. Chelsea-ManU- Chelsea had hit the post twice. They got so close that you just knew Man U would win.

I know this is not very scientific on my part, but I can generally predict who is going to win a shootout. I look at the balance of play over 120 and try to guess the psychological state of the players.

I agree with Forza! Most of the times you feel which team is going to win...

RicardoJol wrote:I agree with Forza! Most of the times you feel which team is going to win...

And it's even easier when england and holland are playing

Im usually confident when Boro are in a shoot out..we've had quite a few in the last few years and I think we've won them all. We're great.

Boro>>>>>Germany.

From a young age the player is instilled with the fortitude to handle the job. Technique and practice is all you need afterwards. English players to a larger percentage lack the mental strength learning from a young age and turn the shoot-out into a lottery....

Its not a lottery at all - its about mental strength, decision making* and technique.


* I've learnt now that not all missed penalties are about losing your bottle - eg Trez at WC '06, if anything he was too confident/laid back.

The best I've seen is Materazzi in that same game - the placement and the power is amazing.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Its not a lottery at all - its about mental strength, decision making* and technique.


* I've learnt now that not all missed penalties are about losing your bottle - eg Trez at WC '06, if anything he was too confident/laid back.

The best I've seen is Materazzi in that same game - the placement and the power is amazing.

Trez was dead *lol* unlucky mind, about an inch lower and it would have bounced over the line and been a perfect penalty.

COTR wrote:

RicardoJol wrote:I agree with Forza! Most of the times you feel which team is going to win...

And it's even easier when england and holland are playing

Well if you look at the games the teams lost.... you saw in extra time the teams getting extra nervous. They were so eager to score the winner (but they couldn't score) that it felt they already lost the game before the penalty kicks started. That's the main reason they lose time and time again...

& which players are likely to miss...