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Brian2468
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49 posters

    Day 7: June 13th: Italy-Romania, Netherlands-France

    Pierre Littbarski
    Pierre Littbarski


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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:43 pm

    I take my hat off to Ruud - great performance.

    On that evidence, ronaldo should join Real - it would be the making of him ok

    Henry's goal was definitely offside and put the the gloss on his pitiful performance - that 1 on 1 lob Doh

    Never a pen - it has to be intentional handball.

    Boulahrouz is awesome ! affraid



    @ Fey - can you please admit that Sneijder is the player of teh tournament so far ? Biggrin



    @ Domenech - you're a fucking twat...

    Day 7: June 13th: Italy-Romania, Netherlands-France - Page 15 4717

    ...but maybe Russell Grant doesn't rate him ?
    Machiavel
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:45 pm

    De Jong did improve somewhat in the second half, maybe the freedom to play in that holding role helped him, surprised he has the nod over De Zeeuw (injured?) Thought the attacking players were impressive, passing, vision and movement a joy to watch, the counterattacks were just speechless, the introduction of Van Persie and Robben really was the turning point, I think today Van Basten has showed his team can play the possession game well and the fluent football well.
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    Sheffield gunner


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    Post by Sheffield gunner Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:49 pm

    Do people think Van Persie and Robben will start games in the future, or should Van Basten keep things as they are and introduce them in the second half to liven things up? They're fantastic impact subs, particularly Robben when he is in such electrifying form. It's a pleasant dilemma to have trying to fit so many wonderful attacking talents into the side!
    Axeslammer
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    Post by Axeslammer Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:52 pm

    Sheffield gunner wrote:Do people think Van Persie and Robben will start games in the future, or should Van Basten keep things as they are and introduce them in the second half to liven things up? They're fantastic impact subs, particularly Robben when he is in such electrifying form. It's a pleasant dilemma to have trying to fit so many wonderful attacking talents into the side!

    we didn't even play Afellay this match : he's as big a talent as those two Ale

    The only players I'd change are Engelaar and Mathijsen.

    and I would not drop Sneijder a line back to start of with.
    Calidad
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    Post by Calidad Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:29 pm

    2 great games today. Very high quality play in both I thought. Exciting too.

    Cassano looks quality. Not seen a whole lot of him past couple of years, but he's come on in both games and shown true quality. Romania also impressed me. Pass the ball well, and Chivu has led by example in both games. Ridiculously talented on the ball for a defender (or midfielder for that matter)

    France like Italy were slightly unlucky, and I thought in the 2nd half they gave it their all, but once again the Dutch were just simply too good on the night. They've humbled both WC finalists now, and neither have been flukes. Great in possession, fantastic interchange and movement in midfield, and have pace to hurt teams on the counter-attack. Great work ethic too, and even the defence has looked reasonably solid.

    Think Ribery is worthy of mention, talent to burn and works like a trojan. He may not be a Zidane (who is?), but he's a wonderful player, and never stops trying to make something happen. Sometimes looks like the only French player capable of making something happen. Thought Malouda was $h!t as usual, and thought Govou was quite decent. Defence as a unit was all over the place, but so was Italy's (indicative of the Dutch quality perhaps)?
    SuperMario
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    Post by SuperMario Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:35 pm

    Axeslammer wrote:
    Sheffield gunner wrote:Do people think Van Persie and Robben will start games in the future, or should Van Basten keep things as they are and introduce them in the second half to liven things up? They're fantastic impact subs, particularly Robben when he is in such electrifying form. It's a pleasant dilemma to have trying to fit so many wonderful attacking talents into the side!

    we didn't even play Afellay this match : he's as big a talent as those two Ale

    The only players I'd change are Engelaar and Mathijsen.

    and I would not drop Sneijder a line back to start of with.
    Same here.

    Highlight of the match Engelaar off, Robben on. That's Dutch courage! KUDO'S to Marco.

    All respect to Engleaar. But everybody can be subbed.
    Axeslammer
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    Post by Axeslammer Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:36 pm

    Like Ribery, Pirlo was also pretty good against us Ale


    (I thought that to have a chance against those teams we'd absolutely have to shut those two down, apparently not Shocked )
    Machiavel
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:38 pm

    Is this a dream, 7 goals past Italy and France plus the uncertainties before the tournament, this might be too good to be true.
    Axeslammer
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    Post by Axeslammer Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:38 pm

    Don Leo wrote:

    Highlight of the match Engelaar off, Robben on. That's Dutch courage! KUDO'S to Marco.


    Marco was so incredibly lucky that move worked : he was upping the ante gigantically, a massive gamble Ale

    After that Van Persie for Kuyt => even less defensive effort in the team Shocked

    Fortuna iuvat braves cheers
    SuperMario
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    Post by SuperMario Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:41 pm

    Axeslammer wrote:
    Don Leo wrote:

    Highlight of the match Engelaar off, Robben on. That's Dutch courage! KUDO'S to Marco.


    Marco was so incredibly lucky that move worked : he was upping the ante gigantically, a massive gamble Ale

    After that Van Persie for Kuyt => even less defensive effort in the team Shocked

    Fortuna iuvat braves cheers
    After 20 minutes I already said he should bring Robben; thought we lacked depth / pace up front. we should have been 2-0 up, considering the counter chances we had. must say when he brought Van Persie, I was giving it a thought that we might lack Engelaar's length for defensive set pieces. Apart from that Engelaar was sloppy this match, may even a bit out of his depth.
    Super Progress
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    Post by Super Progress Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:25 am

    Axeslammer wrote:
    Rasiak-9 wrote:"that was really a goal made by chelsea and scored by arsenal Mark"

    - Motson = stupid, stupid, ignorant twat.

    He forgot the Man United lead up to it (Van Nistelrooy's circus turn and heel, since when can he do stuff like that ?! ) Ale
    Since 2006 king
    Good performance by Holland. Still think they have been a bit lucky with getting goals when the other team has been attacking.
    i wouldnt exactly say this is the best football being played because i dont think there is always the fluency in their passing but still good to watch though. For once its great to see a side that wants to have the ball more succed and who dares to make offensive changes when down(Bravo Van Basten).
    Even if Holland puts their "B" team out against Romania its still going to be quality no matter what with Robben,Huntelaar,Persie,Affelay. the problem is how motivated they will be.
    DUTCH FOOTBALL <Ale>
    Football Genius
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    Post by Football Genius Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:08 am

    Don Leo wrote:
    Axeslammer wrote:
    Sheffield gunner wrote:Do people think Van Persie and Robben will start games in the future, or should Van Basten keep things as they are and introduce them in the second half to liven things up? They're fantastic impact subs, particularly Robben when he is in such electrifying form. It's a pleasant dilemma to have trying to fit so many wonderful attacking talents into the side!

    we didn't even play Afellay this match : he's as big a talent as those two Ale

    The only players I'd change are Engelaar and Mathijsen.

    and I would not drop Sneijder a line back to start of with.
    Same here.

    Highlight of the match Engelaar off, Robben on. That's Dutch courage! KUDO'S to Marco.

    All respect to Engleaar. But everybody can be subbed.

    I was thinking it would be an excellent opportunity for Van Persie and Robben to get some further match fitness, however since, i've realised it would be at the risk they may get injured. Gio, Sneijder, RVN, one of De Jong / Engelaar should definately be rested IMO.

    Imagine if Seedorf, Babel and co were available for selection, Holland really do have a dept of options at full strength. Whilst Holland have an excellent squad to choose from, i never thought player like Sneijder would step up to the plate the way they have, Real Madrid really have brought out the best in this guy Ale

    NEDERLAND!
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    Brian2468


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    Post by Brian2468 Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:14 am

    Holland played great football today and now have showed how to contain two highly talented teams and still play attractively. This is the best football since 98 WC and many on here feel Holland will implode. Counter attacking suits them and if they ever play teams like Spain and Portugal that like possession ball I see them being able to beat these teams as long as they do not let the oppositions dirty tactics get to them.
    Go Dutchie's!!!
    DS
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    Post by DS Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:00 am

    Portugal counter attacks faster then Holland , I dont know if you noted that.

    France needs loads of chance people like Thuram , Sagnol are history and should be dumped.

    It was interesting comparing two strikers remember when both were in England and we used to have > debates , the difference is how Ruud holds the ball allow his teammates to join in while Henry cant , any idiot would know Henry cant play the lone role and a fresher Henry will play better theory bites the dust.
    DS
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    Post by DS Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:03 am

    For me its between Portugal and Holland seeing the performances so far , Portugal weaknesses is the direct ball ,crosses and setpieces and I dont think that are Holland strengths , yes Kuyt scored off a corner earned by a long ball but Malouda was marking him.

    I dont know if Dutch can handle the Portugese wingers and the runners from midfield, it would be interesting.

    2ndly and most importantly form in the group stages counts for f@ck all in knockout stages.
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    Brian2468


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    Post by Brian2468 Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:26 am

    I watched Portugals games and see a weakness if things do not go to plan. Even against the Czech's cold steely play effects the game mind set. Holland remand me of the Edmonton Oilers (Hockey) in there hay day they played all out offensively end to end you score 4 we will score 5. It is early days and I am not writing Germany off either but would like to see the Dutch go all the way and win. Ale
    Historicus
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    Post by Historicus Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:07 am

    Brian2468 wrote:I watched Portugals games and see a weakness if things do not go to plan. Even against the Czech's cold steely play effects the game mind set. Holland remand me of the Edmonton Oilers (Hockey) in there hay day they played all out offensively end to end you score 4 we will score 5. It is early days and I am not writing Germany off either but would like to see the Dutch go all the way and win. Ale

    The Oilers had Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier though, Kuyt may be MOTM, but I don't know if he's on the level of all time greats, and I don't know how many players on the Dutch team are, VDS and RVN maybe.
    bluenine
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    Post by bluenine Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:28 am

    I am still not over the games yesterday Sad

    Italy deserved the win, its just too sad. Italy had to win, if they had they would have been almost certain to qualify.... so many chances wasted, and a goal ruled offside, luck certainly wasn't on their side.

    And now, Holland will field a second string and delibrately lose the final game to knock both Italy and France out of the Euro and a possible semi final rematch Sad

    Totally gutted.
    bluenine
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    Post by bluenine Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:38 am

    Super Madrid wrote:Not suprised at all that Del Piero pulled his slow as hell act when he finally gets the chance. Cassano has to start since he is the only real creative outlet. Natale should be next to him and then perhaps they wont just hoof it up for Toni.
    Exactly. DP just keeps freezing when he gets chances for the Azzurri - its not a new thing, he has been like this for 10 years!

    Its should be Cassano-Toni-Di Natale, but I have a bad feeling that we will see DP and Camoranesi again in the starting line up Sad
    Machiavel
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    Post by Machiavel Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:52 am

    Historicus wrote:
    Brian2468 wrote:I watched Portugals games and see a weakness if things do not go to plan. Even against the Czech's cold steely play effects the game mind set. Holland remand me of the Edmonton Oilers (Hockey) in there hay day they played all out offensively end to end you score 4 we will score 5. It is early days and I am not writing Germany off either but would like to see the Dutch go all the way and win. Ale

    The Oilers had Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier though, Kuyt may be MOTM, but I don't know if he's on the level of all time greats, and I don't know how many players on the Dutch team are, VDS and RVN maybe.

    Kuyt = Gretzky

    Most of the attacking talent on view in this Dutch team are young, none are lets say at the level of Bergkamp, Gullit, Van Basten or Ruud Krol .. yet.
    Machiavel
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    Post by Machiavel Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:02 am

    Sneijder gets the UEFA MOTM award.

    Jerzy Engel, representing the UEFA Technical Team who decided on the Man of the Match after noting the outcome of the online vote on euro2008.com, admitted that Sneijder had been one of a number of star players on show. "It was very difficult to make a decision," said the former Poland coach. "At the end, we were looking at three players – at Franck Ribéry, at Arjen Robben and at Sneijder, who was the architect of the game. When he scored the goal at the end, it tipped the balance in his favour."
    Axeslammer
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    Post by Axeslammer Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:30 am

    Napoléon wrote:
    L.r.d wrote:Van der Saar > Buffon <Ale>

    he can do nothing

    Buffon = Casillas = Coupet = Cech = Mandanda >>>>>> VDS

    lol! cheers lol!
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan!
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    Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:33 pm

    bluenine wrote:
    Super Madrid wrote:Not suprised at all that Del Piero pulled his slow as hell act when he finally gets the chance. Cassano has to start since he is the only real creative outlet. Natale should be next to him and then perhaps they wont just hoof it up for Toni.
    Exactly. DP just keeps freezing when he gets chances for the Azzurri - its not a new thing, he has been like this for 10 years!

    Its should be Cassano-Toni-Di Natale, but I have a bad feeling that we will see DP and Camoranesi again in the starting line up Sad

    Del Piero was good in the first half. Pirlo was awful yesterday.
    Fey
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    Post by Fey Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:22 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:I take my hat off to Ruud - great performance.

    On that evidence, ronaldo should join Real - it would be the making of him ok

    Henry's goal was definitely offside and put the the gloss on his pitiful performance - that 1 on 1 lob Doh

    Never a pen - it has to be intentional handball.

    Boulahrouz is awesome ! affraid



    @ Fey - can you please admit that Sneijder is the player of teh tournament so far ? Biggrin



    @ Domenech - you're a fucking twat...

    Day 7: June 13th: Italy-Romania, Netherlands-France - Page 15 4717

    ...but maybe Russell Grant doesn't rate him ?

    Ooohh hell no! Midget never scores the first goal!!

    MOTM yesterday was clearly Kuyt, midget was one of the weakest players even! Trying to win headers with negroid who are 2 meter+ Erm

    But Kuyt was so good yesterday!

    I prefer him on the right side and RVP on the 10!
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    Post by Fey Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:30 pm

    Anyway...the ratings!!!

    van der Saar Ale 8,5 best goalie in the world at this moment!
    Boula: 8
    Ooijer: 7,5
    Mathijssen: 6,5
    Gio: 8
    De Jong: 6
    Engelaar: 6,5 The guy shouldnt pass, but we got overrun when he went of!
    VDV: 7
    Midget: 7
    RVN: 8,5 He worked really hard!!!!
    Kuyt: 9 MOTM!
    Robben: 9
    RVP: 8
    Since 1888
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    Post by Since 1888 Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:32 pm

    Eurosport Laughing

    Netherlands 4-1 France

    A total of 11 English top flight players featured in the game in Berne as Netherlands booked their place in the quarter-finals in quite some style.

    Liverpool's Dirk Kuyt got the Oranje on their way as he finally managed to add a goal to his usual display of tireless running, heading home from close range in just the 10th minute.

    Arsenal forward Robin van Persie was also on the scoresheet, netting the crucial second goal just four minutes after having been introduced as a substitute. He went on to link up well with fellow substitute and former Chelsea man Arjen Robben, giving the French defence plenty to think about on the break.

    At the back, Blackburn's Andre Ooijer and Chelsea-owned Khalid Boulahrouz continue to confound their doubters - the pair were unflappable once again although Ooijer was lucky not to have seen a penalty decision go against him when Thierry Henry's 49th minute shot struck his arm. In the end, it was a terrific block.

    In goal, Manchester United keeper Edwin van der Sar looked solid, making decent saves to deny Florent Malouda, Sidney Govou and Franck Ribery. But the veteran could do nothing about Henry's deft finish in the 71st minute.

    Aston Villa full-back Wilfred Bouma came on as a 79th minute substitute to close the game down with Netherlands leading 3-1.

    Chelsea winger Florent Malouda again started for the French, despite a lacklustre display in Les Bleus' opener against Romania, but did little to justify his inclusion. He was horribly at fault for Kuyt's opener, when he took his eyes off the ball and allowed himself to be out-muscled at the near post by the Liverpool man.

    Manchester United left-back Patrice Evra made his bow at the Championship but rarely got the chance to make his trademark bursts down the wing and was penned back in his own half for much of the game.

    Alongside him, Arsenal defender William Gallas was exposed to the full force of the Dutch attack and had the brilliant Ruud van Nistelrooy to contend with. The Gunners captain does not like to lose though and ran his socks off, covering five kilometres in the first half alone.

    Just in front of the back four, Chelsea midfielder Claude Makelele looked overrun at times and was lucky to stay on the pitch after two poor challenges.

    Makelele's Stamford Bridge team-mate Nicolas Anelka came on to replace Govou, but with just 15 minutes remaining, the striker had no time to make a difference and had little impact on the game.
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    Post by Deano Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:33 pm

    bluenine wrote:I am still not over the games yesterday Sad

    Italy deserved the win, its just too sad. Italy had to win, if they had they would have been almost certain to qualify.... so many chances wasted, and a goal ruled offside, luck certainly wasn't on their side.

    And now, Holland will field a second string and delibrately lose the final game to knock both Italy and France out of the Euro and a possible semi final rematch Sad

    Totally gutted.

    No Bluenine...we can't defend. Ok...we have had a couple of bad refereeing decisions...but that doesn't justify a $h!t performance against Holland, and poor defending two games running. We don't have players performing well...and Donadoni, who fair play to him changed things, doesn't seem to know what to do tactically at the moment.

    Romania deserved their point...and Holland deserved their win. We don't deserve to be on any more than the 1 point we have.
    Calidad
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    Day 7: June 13th: Italy-Romania, Netherlands-France - Page 15 Empty Re: Day 7: June 13th: Italy-Romania, Netherlands-France

    Post by Calidad Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:46 pm

    Since 1888 wrote:Eurosport Laughing

    Netherlands 4-1 France

    A total of 11 English top flight players featured in the game in Berne as Netherlands booked their place in the quarter-finals in quite some style.

    Liverpool's Dirk Kuyt got the Oranje on their way as he finally managed to add a goal to his usual display of tireless running, heading home from close range in just the 10th minute.

    Arsenal forward Robin van Persie was also on the scoresheet, netting the crucial second goal just four minutes after having been introduced as a substitute. He went on to link up well with fellow substitute and former Chelsea man Arjen Robben, giving the French defence plenty to think about on the break.

    At the back, Blackburn's Andre Ooijer and Chelsea-owned Khalid Boulahrouz continue to confound their doubters - the pair were unflappable once again although Ooijer was lucky not to have seen a penalty decision go against him when Thierry Henry's 49th minute shot struck his arm. In the end, it was a terrific block.

    In goal, Manchester United keeper Edwin van der Sar looked solid, making decent saves to deny Florent Malouda, Sidney Govou and Franck Ribery. But the veteran could do nothing about Henry's deft finish in the 71st minute.

    Aston Villa full-back Wilfred Bouma came on as a 79th minute substitute to close the game down with Netherlands leading 3-1.

    Chelsea winger Florent Malouda again started for the French, despite a lacklustre display in Les Bleus' opener against Romania, but did little to justify his inclusion. He was horribly at fault for Kuyt's opener, when he took his eyes off the ball and allowed himself to be out-muscled at the near post by the Liverpool man.

    Manchester United left-back Patrice Evra made his bow at the Championship but rarely got the chance to make his trademark bursts down the wing and was penned back in his own half for much of the game.

    Alongside him, Arsenal defender William Gallas was exposed to the full force of the Dutch attack and had the brilliant Ruud van Nistelrooy to contend with. The Gunners captain does not like to lose though and ran his socks off, covering five kilometres in the first half alone.

    Just in front of the back four, Chelsea midfielder Claude Makelele looked overrun at times and was lucky to stay on the pitch after two poor challenges.

    Makelele's Stamford Bridge team-mate Nicolas Anelka came on to replace Govou, but with just 15 minutes remaining, the striker had no time to make a difference and had little impact on the game.

    what an awful review

    that's all we hear over in the UK though. Which premiership players are featuring, which players on show should come to the premiership
    Bashmachkin
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    Day 7: June 13th: Italy-Romania, Netherlands-France - Page 15 Empty Re: Day 7: June 13th: Italy-Romania, Netherlands-France

    Post by Bashmachkin Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:49 pm

    Just to respond to a few points that DS made:

    I think Henry doesn't look in the best of spirits, he doesn't look full of confidence, and he's maybe not quite fit, or match fit yet. Still, I thought he was one of France's better players yesterday in a team that didn't perform at all well - Henry was decent, ran pretty well, in the second half, and though his goal did put the gloss on what wasn't a great performance - still it was a nicely taken goal, and the gloss didn't shine so brightly considering the overall scoreline.

    Henry doesn't have the perfect attributes for playing the lone striker, but I think he can play it effectively - however, it requires something different from the team, it requires an attack to play in a different sort of way than it would play with a van Nistelrooy, or a Drogba or Adebayor. These players are good in the air, and good with their backs to goal, good at holding the ball up and allowing runners to run forward into good positions. Henry doesn't hold up the ball with his back to goal. So the midfielders have to be quicker to support him, perhaps have to get closer to him and play intricate passes amongst themselves, or else they have to draw the defenders away to allow Henry to do something himself. They maybe need to play so that they sometimes get ahead of Henry by the time he gets the ball. And it suits to play balls over the top for Henry to run onto more.

    I still think France would very possibly be better with two strikers. But at the moment their attack just doesn't link well at all. I think their holding players sit too deep, don't bring the ball forward enough; their wide players don't stay wide, and so overlapping full backs aren't utilised well; Ribery and Henry don't seem to have a great partnership yet. It's just a group of random players in random positions, not really playing off each other.

    I think the Netherlands have looked better than the Portugese thus far, though Portugal have looked good too. I think it's a valid point that Portugal might counter attack faster, spread the play quicker with more slick passing, certainly from the start of the game - the two teams start a little bit differently; the Dutch with more of a target man, maybe a little bit narrower with Kuyt and Sneijder - though there is little difference when van Persie and Robben come on. But I have more faith in the Dutch being able to break down defensive sides and score goals, because they have a more clinical finisher in van Nistelrooy, because they can maybe mix the play more. Portugal should have a better central defence than Holland have, but in the last game Pepe and Carvalho didn't look immense at corners. And I think it is interesting that the Dutch full backs have been much more involved than the Portugese full backs so far in this tournament - van Bronckhorst has been excellent and Ferreira isn't really comparable; but yesterday Boulahrouz was attacking well, and even looked good on the ball, whereas Bosingwa hasn't offered much for Portugal.
    DS
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    Day 7: June 13th: Italy-Romania, Netherlands-France - Page 15 Empty Re: Day 7: June 13th: Italy-Romania, Netherlands-France

    Post by DS Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:06 pm

    Very good points Bash , Benzema should start for France he is their only striker who had a good season though Trez should have been picked and playing.

    Portugal has more room for improvement as you point out but do you think Dutch can improve any more , they may change it a bit by bringing Van Persie and Robben but that weakens them defensively.

    It would be a very intriguing game and I think it will depend of Deco to be honest Dutch dont have anyone who compares to him.

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    Day 7: June 13th: Italy-Romania, Netherlands-France - Page 15 Empty Re: Day 7: June 13th: Italy-Romania, Netherlands-France

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