Messiah wrote: COTR wrote: Effenberg wrote:Jokes aside, I think on current form we're among the top 5 in Europe.
However, that doesn't mean anything come February-May (when it counts).
Barca is miles ahead of everybody right now. No question.
In spain they may be well ahead of everyone, but english teams are actually capable of defending and d
ominating barca's midfield so you can't really say they are aheadDeisler's first list is about right but Bayern are one of the few teams who may just challenge the favourites
only Chelsea and maybe liverpool could do that, and not anymore with the tank that is Yaya, and lets us not for get busquets and Kieta the days of the english playing $h!t and trying to out muscle us in midfield are gone, we the out muscle part at least.
I don't think we're miles ahead of everyone. We are playing really well when we can impose our game on others, esp. if the other team tries to play aggressively but concedes an early goal. But a key factor in winning the CL nowadays is how your defense plays as a unit when under pressure for sustained periods. In that sense we haven't been tested effectively yet, though of course, with Keita-Toure as a combo behind Xavi, I'm not so worried about it compared to Rijkaard's time, even when we won in 2006 (where we were lucky to have Motta fit in the Chelsea matches and could combine him with Edmilson).
I don't think any of the English teams right now are set up to outmuscle us. Chelsea have Essien out and Mikel isn't that big, Man. Utd. have no good CMs, Arsenal are lightweight, and though Liverpool have no Sissoko, they tend to rely more on running around and applying ball pressure rather than just strength. Breaking down our possible matchups against the English teams (in no particular order):
1. Arsenal - We can manage fine defensively when they attack, esp. because they are a bit predictable without any wingers, and Hleb gone from midfield. Possible danger is Van Persie breaking past our high defensive line.
When we attack, their lack of a DM means Xavi and Messi can live in the gap between their midfield and defensive lines. They are dodgy from setpieces too, an area where we have improved a lot this year.
Quality wise, we are better overall in all departments.
Verdict - we should beat Arsenal.2. Liverpool - I'm confident enough that our team's rapid ball circulation in midfield is enough to evade the man-to-man pressure that Benitez will employ. He will also most probably put Mascherano on a stifling job against Xavi. But this leaves a thin margin of error, so any bad touch or stray pass will be pounced upon by Gerrard who will then play an early, direct ball to Torres to run at Puyol/Marquez. We can gain an advantage on the right flank, since they don't have a Kuyt there to help the fullback, and we have both Messi and Alves. Babel won't play because of his lack of defensive work, and Riera is not fast enough to exploit Alves like Bellamy did to our RB in the 2007 match.
Verdict - it will be a tough match, decided by an individual moment/pass from Messi/Xavi/Iniesta/Alonso/Gerrard/Torres3. Chelsea - no siege mentality like they had under Mourinho, and a slightly more open system, although a bit too reliant on the fullbacks. They will definitely crowd us out in midfield as well...but again, I think if the DMs track Lampard and Deco's runs properly, we can control them. Messi has their number anyway, esp. if he was running at Terry.
Verdict - we can win if we stay concentrated4. Man. Utd. - well, if they come out and play it'll be a classic English 4-4-2 against our 4-3-3. But recent history suggests that they'll park the bus and look to grab something on the counter with the Rooney-Berbatov (superb first touch and can lay it off to either man alongside him so they can use their pace to run in the channel between the CB and fullback on that side)-Ronaldo combo.
And with a backline of Ferdinand-Vidic-Evra, this defensive strategy becomes very effective. It's not like some small team parking the bus, where they're bound to make a mistake at some point. These 3 are among the top defenders in the world. Last year we had a misfiring attack with Messi, Etoo, and Deco all not 100% fit. But even with a fully working attack this year, we'll only be able to create a few chances against that defense.
We should win the midfield battle though, since their CM's are average. This match will go back and forth, with each team having periods of dominance. The winner will be whoever can capitalise on this.
Verdict - 50-50, depends how both teams play on the daySo yeah, I'd rate us in the same way that everyone rates Liverpool/Chelsea/Man. Utd. nowadays - about equal and too tough to call between them.
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Sorry to take the thread so far off topic
To answer the question, I think Bayern will cause problems for whoever they face, but their defense is not CL-winning-quality yet. So I'd say they're in the top 8.
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