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    Weekend Winners and Losers

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    Post by Tweesus Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:09 pm

    cheers

    Winners

    Liverpool
    Liverpool's performance at Old Trafford wasn't merely the best of any side this season to date, it was a display that transcended their suggested capabilities.

    This was a different Liverpool than previously seen - not the Liverpool of stifle that won in the Bernabeu or the dour Benitez side of stereotype, but a Liverpool side of control and precision, of speed and discipline, of imagination and ambition. It was remarkable to behold because it was so unexpected and so ruthlessly complete in its execution. If the sole disappointment of their afternoon was the final whistle signalling the end of their fun, it wasn't long before Sir Alex Ferguson sealed their day of delight by announcing that United had been the better side. How Liverpool must have laughed at that. How they ought to. Their superiority was vast.

    In Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres, Liverpool boasted the two best players on the pitch, the former relishing the freedom of centre of stage and the latter providing a convincing audition to be regarded as the world's best striker. A small point amid the tributes: he is as much a fierce competitor as he is an athlete and clinical finisher.

    The point has been made elsewhere that were Torres to have remained fit for the entire campaign - he has missed 13 of their 29 league games so far and started just nine in combination with Gerrard - then Liverpool might well be in pole position instead of four points adrift. It is certainly a sustainable argument. His reawakening at Old Trafford is only likely to breathe temporary life back into the title race - Liverpool still need United to lose three of their remaining games to catch up and the fact, to borrow Rafa's favourite word, is that only two different teams have beaten them in the league in the past 13 months - but if it is asked in the previews to the next campaign how and where Liverpool can improve then Torres' injury record can be given as the definitive answer. Where there is Torres, there is always hope.


    Owen Hargreaves
    The absence of Hargreaves since September has barely been noticed but the midfielder, the only 'natural' holding player in United's squad, was badly missed by the champions on Saturday. If the key to Liverpool's triumph were the performances of Gerrard and Torres, then the key to their influence was the appreciation and exploitation of the chasm between United's malfunctioning midfield and leaden defence. Time and time again, Liverpool's match winners collected possession in the area that a screening midfielder, such as Hargreaves, would have patrolled and it remains something of a mystery why the gap was not plugged by Michael Carrick or Anderson. In general, the jury is out on the Brazilian but both he and the equally-poor Carrick were guilty of inexplicable tactical ignorance this weekend.


    Alan Wiley
    Unobtrusive, even-handed, brave and unfussy. Howard Webb, whose clichéd status as the league's number one referee is courtesy of his physical authority rather than decision-making qualities, could learn plenty.


    Andrei Arshavin
    The shame of Arsenal's season has been their injury record and the six-month delay in signing Arshavin (a consequence, maybe, of Arsene Wenger apparently believing throughout the summer that Tomas Rosicky would return in September). The Russian was the outstanding individual performer against Blackburn and his display was reason enough to believe that next season will be better for the Gunners than the current campaign. His is a special talent.

    The quandary for Wenger is just where is best to deploy Arshavin. The even-handed ability to play in numerous positions is exclusive to only a select band of players and the 27-year-old's four-match career in England has already seen him in three. Having started against Blackburn in a central support role, Arshavin was moved to the left for the second half and it was from there that he scored his match-settling goal. In the longer term, Wenger may have to consider a more radical revision, dismantling his favoured 4-4-2 formation for a system that would offer a platform for Arshavin, Cesc Fabregas, Theo Walcott and either Samir Nasri or Rosicky in combination behind a single striker.


    Tottenham Hotspur
    Third in the Form Table after losing just one of their last eight matches, Spurs are now just four points adrift of a place in the league table that would probably qualify them for the rejigged and renamed UEFA Cup next season. It would be a curious reward for Harry Redknapp after he rejected the competition last month in order to concentrate on domestic matters.


    Chelsea
    No team makes a single-goal victory look as comfortable as Chelsea.


    Michael Essien
    An under-appreciated player who actually brings the dynamism to the Chelsea midfield that Michael Ballack was hired at a cost of £140,000 a week to provide.


    Losers

    Nemanja Vidic
    The Serbian has, on the whole, been superb this season. Yet his humiliation at the quick feet of Torres and Gerrard was perhaps, albeit with the benefit of hindsight, not that great a surprise. If Vidic has a flaw, it is a lack of pace on the turn and he is slow to disguise it against top-level opponents.

    His dismissal for hauling down Gerrard with a rugby-style tackle was his second of the league campaign and similar to the offences that saw him dismissed at Anfield six months ago and cautioned at Newcastle earlier this month. And that charge sheet is generous: in November, Vidic should also have been sent off at both Villa and Arsenal for professional-foul shirt-pulls on Gabriel Agbonlahor and Samir Nasri after his lack of pace was exposed. The leniency and inaccuracy of officialdom saved him then but, all of a sudden courtesy of Gerrard and Wiley, his flaw is finally out in the open and ripe for exploitation.


    Wayne Rooney
    What a silly boy.


    Manchester United
    First, the disclaimer: Saturday's defeat should matter not in influencing the destination of the title. With a game in hand and a four-point lead, United still have one hand on the title and remain odds-on favourites (1/10 to be precise).

    Yet it matters because such humiliations are difficult to forget, especially against such intense and local rivals. Even if United avoid long-term scarring, their cloak of invincibility has been punctured and the sight of a quarter-full Old Trafford at the final whistle will remain one of the season's enduring images. It matters, too, because the rest of Europe will know the English champions are from far invincible and any claims of greatness proclaimed at the end of the season - whether from a triple, quadruple or quintuple - will be attacked with gusto by United's record against top-class level.

    It is, of course, natural that any team should fare better against middling opposition. But United's record against their top-level peers is too ghastly to be dismissed as par on a difficult course. If, as is reasonable, their most formidable opponents since last April were listed as Barcelona, Chelsea, Arsenal, Aston Villa, Liverpool and Inter Milan then United's record during that period would be Played 12, Won Three, Drawn Five, Lost Four.

    Their manager remarked last week that winning the Champions League this season has become the club's priority. On Saturday, the importance of that task assumed a new perspective. It will only be by triumphing in Europe - something that can only be achieved with victories over the elite - that the charge of Flat-Track Bullying can be refuted.


    Morten Gamst Pedersen
    But footballers will continue to dive, however ridiculous the circumstance, until there is an adequate deterrent in place. And, at present, that deterrent is not in place. Even if a footballer is adjudged guilty of cheating and the referee deems the offence worthy of punishment, all that the cheat will suffer is a yellow card - which, unless it is his second of the game, is a trifle compared to the potential reward of winning a penalty. Pedersen's effort to deceive will earn him scorn and ridicule, and yet, as a professional footballer employed to serve the interests of a football club currently embroiled in a relegation fight worth upwards of £50m, his act of deception was entirely legitimate and logical.

    His shame should pale alongside that of the game's rulemakers who, because of their failings, have tacitly allowed this ugly malpractice to flourish.


    Gabriel Agbonlahor
    The reaction of the Villa fans to his substitution was particularly harsh because
    Agbonlahor's slump is a product of having to lead Villa's line in isolation throughout their winter of content.


    Aston Villa
    The wheels have come off and if they are to be reattached before Arsenal are out of sight then the repair job will have to be completed at Anfield and Old Trafford.

    Villa were faltering before the late capitulation to Stoke but that setback has knocked the stuffing out of them and not even a trip to Dubai has provided the tonic to an under-strength and over-stretched squad. High amongst the reasons for their recent decline is a loss of luck and a shortage of players. Villa's squad is relatively small and the unavoidable conclusion from the past month is that it is too shallow to sustain a league push even when spared any other distractions. Quite how they'd manage with the additional task of playing Champions League football is a moot point but it's fair to assume that the extra workload would break their squad - unless additions are made - in a manner that would make requalification inconceivable. Whether they reach fourth place or not, Villa require a summer of arrivals.


    David Bentley
    Remember him? On a weekend when Aaron Lennon, Theo Walcott and Ashley Young all successfully enhanced their international credentials, Bentley was an unused substitute at Villa Park as his regression continued in haste. Since January, his first-team activities have been limited to 126 minutes of football - 90 of which were in the Ukraine as Spurs withdrew from the UEFA Cup - and a missed penalty in the Carling Cup shoot-out.

    As with Robbie Keane at Liverpool, Bentley's transfer to Tottenham was self-celebrated because Spurs were the team he supported as a boy. Amateur psychologists may reflect that it is the additional pressure of self-expectation that such 'dream' transfers carry that often results in them becoming the stuff of nightmares.

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    Post by Parks lives Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:13 pm

    Agree on the Hargreaves part and how poor Anderson was. We were second to nearly every ball in midfield at times.

    Think they go overboard on the Vidic part though. Yes he has struggled before with pace but he's also had far more games against pacey players where he's handled them brilliantly by his excellent reading of the game.
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:26 pm

    Parks lives wrote:Agree on the Hargreaves part and how poor Anderson was. We were second to nearly every ball in midfield at times.

    Think they go overboard on the Vidic part though. Yes he has struggled before with pace but he's also had far more games against pacey players where he's handled them brilliantly by his excellent reading of the game.

    Vidic doesn't so much have opposition strikers in his pocket as have them in a headlock.

    Anderson's selection was questionable, as was the triple substitution of Giggs, Scholes and Berbatov at a time when urgency was needed.
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    Post by Dwarf Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:39 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    Alan Wiley
    Unobtrusive, even-handed, brave and unfussy. Howard Webb, whose clichéd status as the league's number one referee is courtesy of his physical authority rather than decision-making qualities, could learn plenty.

    Rafa's rant worked then. Though I doubt anyone will give him credit for it, as to do so they'd have to admit that linking a set of results they expected without the rant to the rant was foolish.
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:40 pm

    Glenn lives wrote:

    Ledley King doesn't so much have opposition strikers in his pocket as have them in a headlock.
    Laughok

    Perfect assessment of Vidic IMO. BiggrinAle


    Last edited by The HuddFather™ on Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:13 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Post by Pras_tama Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:46 pm

    The HuddFather™️ wrote:
    Glenn lives wrote:

    Ledley King doesn't so much have opposition strikers in his pocket as have them in a headlock.
    Laughok

    Perfect assessment of Ledley King IMO. BiggrinAle

    cheers
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    Post by fcb Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:48 pm

    Ledley King? scratch

    At least if you're trying to make a comeback, pick a more appropriate player Doh
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    Post by Parks lives Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:49 pm

    Dwarf wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:
    Alan Wiley
    Unobtrusive, even-handed, brave and unfussy. Howard Webb, whose clichéd status as the league's number one referee is courtesy of his physical authority rather than decision-making qualities, could learn plenty.

    Rafa's rant worked then. Though I doubt anyone will give him credit for it, as to do so they'd have to admit that linking a set of results they expected without the rant to the rant was foolish.

    Come again?

    Before the rant - 8 point lead
    Now - 4 point deficit.

    Yes, all credit to Rafa.
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    Post by Pras_tama Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:50 pm

    kas wrote:Ledley King? scratch

    At least if you're trying to make a comeback, pick a more appropriate player Doh

    Its wind up for Hudd fav player
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    Post by Six Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:51 pm

    Parks lives wrote:
    Dwarf wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:
    Alan Wiley
    Unobtrusive, even-handed, brave and unfussy. Howard Webb, whose clichéd status as the league's number one referee is courtesy of his physical authority rather than decision-making qualities, could learn plenty.

    Rafa's rant worked then. Though I doubt anyone will give him credit for it, as to do so they'd have to admit that linking a set of results they expected without the rant to the rant was foolish.

    Come again?

    Before the rant - 8 point lead
    Now - 4 point deficit.

    Yes, all credit to Rafa.

    Had nothing to do with his rant though.
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:06 pm

    I can't really explain what's happened to Bentley, but I've never seen a players stock decliine this rapidly or be such a big money flop moving to a club that's in the same country, in the same league as his previous one. Knowing that Ramos really didn't want him must've knocked his ego a bit, but 'arry gave him plenty of chances to prove himself too, before finally going back to Lennon full-time.

    @ Pras

    The same Ledley King who has never been sent off, never been suspended and (I'll have to check the records to be sure) hasn't even been booked 10 times in his career?
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:07 pm

    Crazy

    None of this is making any sense...

    The rant DID NOT WORK. Pure and simple.

    Utd are still clear favourites for the title.

    It was a great result for Liverpool though and it will be interesting to see how Utd respond in their next game.
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:08 pm

    what the hell is going on? This thread just gets more and more confusing.
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    Post by Pras_tama Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:10 pm

    Yes, the same Ledley King who hardly play the entire season
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    Post by debaser Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:10 pm

    The HuddFather™️ wrote:I can't really explain what's happened to Bentley, but I've never seen a players stock decliine this rapidly or be such a big money flop moving to a club that's in the same country, in the same league as his previous one.
    Bent Darren?
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:11 pm

    does Rafa's rant also apply retrospectively?

    We should surely blame the draws against Hull, West Ham, Fulham and Villa too if that's the case.
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    Post by Pras_tama Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:12 pm

    Glenn lives wrote:what the hell is going on? This thread just gets more and more confusing.

    At your own point of view
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    Post by Kimbo Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:12 pm

    debaser wrote:
    The HuddFather™️ wrote:I can't really explain what's happened to Bentley, but I've never seen a players stock decliine this rapidly or be such a big money flop moving to a club that's in the same country, in the same league as his previous one.
    Bent Darren?

    Bent Darren has been a key player for them this season. Don't listen to TS.
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    Post by Deano Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:13 pm

    Pras Gallagher wrote:Yes, the same Ledley King who hardly play the entire season

    Yes...the same Ledley King that when he's fit, turns Tottenham into a different side. Hate the club, but King is a fantastic defender. If he wasn't so injury prone...he'd be playing for one of the best. Easily as good as Ferdinand...
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    Post by debaser Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:14 pm

    Glenn lives wrote:does Rafa's rant also apply retrospectively?

    We should surely blame the draws against Hull, West Ham, Fulham and Villa too if that's the case.
    I think everyone's looking in the wrong place. The rant was small potatoes compared to the long-running influence of the goatee.

    Without the goatee: wins CL. With the goatee: loses to Boro, signs Voronin, etc.

    If that's not a significant correlation, I don't even want to know what correlation is.
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    Post by debaser Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:15 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    debaser wrote:
    The HuddFather™️ wrote:I can't really explain what's happened to Bentley, but I've never seen a players stock decliine this rapidly or be such a big money flop moving to a club that's in the same country, in the same league as his previous one.
    Bent Darren?

    Bent Darren has been a key player for them this season. Don't listen to TS.
    He's got a few goals, but if his usual performances are as passenger-esque as he was yesterday, he can't have had too good an effect on them.
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    Post by Black Magic Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:16 pm

    GianDeano Zola wrote:
    Pras Gallagher wrote:Yes, the same Ledley King who hardly play the entire season

    Yes...the same Ledley King that when he's fit, turns Tottenham into a different side. Hate the club, but King is a fantastic defender. If he wasn't so injury prone...he'd be playing for one of the best. Easily as good as Ferdinand...

    Don't think King's the sort to leave Tottenham. Would be one of Europe's premier defenders if he had any sort of cartilage in his knees. ok
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:20 pm

    is Pras Grayson/Batman? Or is it just a coincidence that another Man Utd fan happens to be a relentless c**t?
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    Post by Deano Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:21 pm

    It's the Milan influence on him...Rossoneri bastards ok. Ale.
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    Post by Pras_tama Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:24 pm

    GianDeano Zola wrote:It's the Milan influence on him...Rossoneri bastards ok. Ale.

    Fuck you
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    Post by Pras_tama Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:25 pm

    Glenn lives wrote:is Pras Grayson/Batman? Or is it just a coincidence that another Man Utd fan happens to be a relentless c**t?

    Fuck you
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:26 pm

    debaser wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    debaser wrote:
    The HuddFather™️ wrote:I can't really explain what's happened to Bentley, but I've never seen a players stock decliine this rapidly or be such a big money flop moving to a club that's in the same country, in the same league as his previous one.
    Bent Darren?

    Bent Darren has been a key player for them this season. Don't listen to TS.
    He's got a few goals, but if his usual performances are as passenger-esque as he was yesterday, he can't have had too good an effect on them.

    Bingo. ok

    He can't make the ball stick up top, he has no awareness, terrible technique, cannot run with the ball despite his etc. Still a good finisher, and his goal record will fool someone into thinking he's worth about £12mil, hopefully.
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    Post by Pras_tama Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:27 pm

    Glenn lives wrote:is Pras Grayson/Batman? Or is it just a coincidence that another Man Utd fan happens to be a relentless c**t?

    It's GALLAGHER, idiot
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:28 pm

    No, it's Grayson, idiot.

    Weekend Winners and Losers Noel_gallagher_manchester_city
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    Post by Pras_tama Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:29 pm

    The HuddFather™️ wrote:
    debaser wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    debaser wrote:
    The HuddFather™️ wrote:I can't really explain what's happened to Bentley, but I've never seen a players stock decliine this rapidly or be such a big money flop moving to a club that's in the same country, in the same league as his previous one.
    Bent Darren?

    Bent Darren has been a key player for them this season. Don't listen to TS.
    He's got a few goals, but if his usual performances are as passenger-esque as he was yesterday, he can't have had too good an effect on them.

    Bingo. ok

    He can't make the ball stick up top, he has no awareness, terrible technique, cannot run with the ball despite his etc. Still a good finisher, and his goal record will fool someone into thinking he's worth about £12mil, hopefully.

    Then who do you hope 'arry will buy to replace Bent? Crouch?

    And Hudd, sorry about my post about King. When someone talking bad about United, I just have to respond. Again, sorry, mate Ale


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