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    Weekend Winners and Losers

    Tweesus
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:29 pm

    With the Big Four struggling, there's a new threat emerging between London and the North-West...

    Winners

    Aston Villa
    The secret of Villa's success this season is a settled line-up. Their most highly-prized players - Gareth Barry, Ashley Young and Gabriel Agbonlahor - have all been ever-presents this season, as has their captain, Martin Laursen, and goalkeeper, Brad Friedel. In total, the eleven players who started against Bolton have made 154 starts out of a possible 187 with substitutes Nigel Reo-Coker and Nicky Shorey accounting for 24 of the remaining 33.

    But for being temporarily deprived of John Carew, Villa have had it easy so far with injury and suspension. The Norwegian is one of only 14 players to have started a league game for Villa so far this season - to put that in comparison, Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal have used 23, 21, 20 and 19 respectively - and was the only recognised first-teamer unavailable this weekend.


    Ashley Young
    Comparisons with Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo remain, at present, exaggerated, but proper recognition of his talent is long overdue. Last season, only Cesc Fabregas provided more goalscoring assists in the league and Young's combined tally of assists and goals - 25 - was the equal of Wayne Rooney and bettered by only six other players (Ronaldo, Emmanuel Adebayor, Fernando Torres, Roque Santa Cruz, Dimitar Berbatov and Fabregas).

    This season is proving equally impressive and equally productive. The winger's assist for Agbonlahor against Bolton was his twelfth of the campaign and was followed by his seventh goal. He remains the single most potent danger to Arsenal's hopes of a tenth successive season in the Champions League - an irony of sorts given that Young himself grew up an Arsenal supporter. Were he an Arsenal player, fourth place would be the bare minimum of their ambitions rather than the summit.


    Middlesbrough
    Unbeaten in five matches against Arsenal since being thrashed 7-0 at Highbury in January 2006.


    Jeremie Aliadere
    Boro's scorer in their two 1-1 draws with Arsenal - the Frenchman's former employers - this year has scored just two goals in his intervening 22 league appearances.


    Newcastle United
    To update last week's stat: Owen's last 18 league starts have produced 12 goals. His finish at Pompey was particularly good because his first touch was so bad.


    Tim Cahill
    Who needs strikers? The combined cost of the four used by City on Saturday - Robinho, Jo, Darius Vassell and Benjani - is approximately £56m but Everton's match-winner was a midfielder deployed as a lone frontman because of an injury crisis. He cost a mere £1.5m.


    Steven Gerrard
    Gerrard, too, is a midfielder by label who is gradually evolving into a striker. Because he has so many other attributes to his games, Gerrard's precision in front of goal is rarely commented upon but his chances-to-goals ratio must be one of the best around.

    Earlier this month, Benitez predicted that the Liverpool captain would finish his career in attack and deployed him in the 'hole' behind Dirk Kuyt on Saturday. Aside from being a vindication of his manager's thinking, Gerrard's brace also meant that he has scored four of his team's last six goals. A one-man team they are not but he is the one player maintaining Liverpool's title bid above all others.


    Fulham
    At a crossroads after four successive draws. If they beat Middlesbrough next Saturday then they will be unbeaten in five. If they lose or draw, they will be without a victory since November 15.


    Hull City
    The scorers of seven goals on their trips to Arsenal, Manchester United and Liverpool. Such is their swagger that Phil Brown departed the league leaders on Saturday night bemoaning his "disappointment" at failing to win.


    Heurelho Gomes
    But any goalkeeper can make a save. What determines the quality of his goalkeeper is the number of mistakes he commits and Gomes has already conceded too many for his reputation - and Tottenham career - to be saved. Having praised Gomes' performance against the champions, Harry Redknapp's next sentence was confirmation that he remains intent on purchasing another goalkeeper next month.


    Losers

    The Big Four
    It's probably little more than a temporary, month-long blip but their dominance has been on the wane for the past few weeks. As a collective, their last sixteen matches have produced just six victories - with Chelsea and Liverpool winning just one from four since mid-November despite playing three of those matches on home soil.

    Cue a downscaling of the projected points tally needed to win the league - on current form, 84 will be sufficient - and plenty of regret: at the failure to extend their lead for Liverpool, at an opportunity missed for Chelsea and Manchester United, and, for Arsenal, depression at the realisation that a leading title challenge was theirs to be built for as little as £25m in the summer.


    Blackburn Rovers
    Paul Ince will, to near universal expectation, be sacked as Blackburn Rovers manager this week. If so, he will be the casualty of Rovers' premature folly in the summer and the Premier League's unique volatility - a product of the multi-million financial penalty to be paid for relegation which in turn has eroded the principle of patience as a virtue. Every manager whose side do not occupy a top-six place will be mindful, to varying degrees, that they are just a single bad spell from uncomfortable boardroom scrutiny. "Everyone needs time," argued Ince recently in his naivety. Time is the one luxury that the richest league in the world cannot afford.

    In any other profession, such unfavourable volatility would spark sympathy. But football management is a unique profession and with an unparalleled generosity for perceived failure. Those who will say that Ince has been treated badly ought to onsider reports this week that Alan Curbishley has launched a £3m compensation claim against West Ham a few days after Kevin Keegan launched proceedings against Newcastle worth £8m. Departure has never been so lucrative.

    And, in any case, even if Ince is the latest victim of the league's short-termism, his appointment owed everything to the short-sighted belief that a successful playing career is a guarantee of a successful managerial career. Just because you can drink a regular pint doesn't mean you can run a pub, but football - particularly English football, as the relocation of Gianfranco Zola aptly demonstrates - tends to think differently.

    Ince served an apprenticeship in the lower leagues but it was brief and its value questionable. Managing Macclesfield and the Milton Keynes Dons is a world apart from bossing a Premiership club. To his credit, Ince has kept the Blackburn dressing-room onside but the identity of the players he has brought in betrays his shortcomings for the task of Premiership management.

    Signing Paul Robinson after Friedel departed for Villa was sound, but Keith Andrews has, unsurprisingly, failed to make the leap from League Two and Ince's decision to offer Robbie Fowler a contract revealed a frightening misunderstanding of the modern-day Premier League.

    The proximity to the January transfer window must be a factor in Ince's imminent demise because serious doubts remain about his knowledge of the higher reaches of the transfer market. But, having spent two years in the lower league, it was reckless - at best - of Blackburn to have expected any differently. Arsene Wenger, Sir Alex Ferguson and Rafa Benitez have had years to build-up a portfolio of contacts and scouts. At 41, Ince should not be criticised if his circle of inside-information does not extend far beyond a list of his former team-mates and MK Don players.

    A similar gripe was made by his detractors against Roy Keane given the regularity with which he recruited from Manchester United and Celtic. Tellingly, shortly before his own exit from Sunderland, Keane acknowledged his own difficulties in the transfer market: "You never know with signings until you get them into the club. I've bought players I was convinced were right for us but, after a week, I've thought, 'Nah you're not for me'."

    With time at a premium, Premier League management has become the experienced man's game. Keane and Ince will, at some point in the future, return to management both richer and wiser. And they will be all the better for the longer they stay away.


    Tottenham's Summer Escapologists
    Warned to expect a "bit of grief" upon his return to White Hart Lane, Dimi Berbatov's failure to cause any bother to the Tottenham defence in retaliation was a louder post-match talking point than the booing which greeted his every touch. The scorer of just one goal in his past nine matches - and that the third in a 5-0 win over Stoke - Berbatov, like his strike-partner of last year, is in a slump from which the route to recovery is unclear.

    Formidable as a pair, they seem lost apart and their struggles since separation have raised old doubts. Berbatov remains the one player with whom Keane has successfully dovetailed during his career but was that due to Berbatov's aloof style? It doesn't help the Bulgarian that his best position - is he a link-man or a target-man? - remains an unknown location and he drifted around the outskirts on Saturday night. Keane, meanwhile, was made conspicuous only by his absence as he sat brooding on the bench as Liverpool toiled for a winner against Hull. The 'step-up' of the summer has so far only delivered an over-priced comedown.


    Rafa Benitez
    Let's play multiple-choice for the following situation: You are the manager of a team that is top of the table but, with five minutes and one substitution remaining, your team is being held to a draw at home in what you have acknowledged is the "kind of game you have to win". So, do you...

    a) Replace one holding midfielder with another who has yet to score a first-team league goal?

    or

    b) Introduce the striker you bought for £20m in the summer rather than make him sit on the bench for the entire 90 minutes even though your other 'star' striker is unfit and unavailable?


    Liverpool
    The statistic declaring that Liverpool are one of only two teams - Manchester United being the other - still boasting an undefeated home record is made meaningless by their dropping six points in their last three engagements at Anfield. Add in September's stalemate with Stoke and the deficit essentially amounts to two-and-a-half defeats. Put in comparison to the champions' record at Old Trafford last term - Played 19, Won 17, Drawn 1, Lost 1 - and, for the first time since the season start, there is tangible reason to doubt Pool's credentials.


    Chelsea
    The 14 points that Chelsea have dropped at home is as many as they squandered in the whole of last season and four more than Jose Mourinho lost in his first season in charge.


    Luiz Felipe Scolari and Deco
    The player Scolari needs to drop is the ageing cast-off he staked his reputation on pursuing in the summer. His protests against Mike Riley's decision not to award Chelsea a last-minute penalty for a trip on Frank Lampard were valid but, at home to modest opposition, Chelsea should not have required any assistance.

    Having belatedly introduced Didier Drogba as a second-half substitute Scolari complained afterwards about his forwards' inflexibility. "I need them to understand they are not fixed in position," he said. "They need to come back and win the ball." Yet the stand-out feature of Chelsea's display was once again Deco's meagre contribution. After just two wins in their last five matches, someone has to give.


    Manchester United
    The scorers of just two goals in their last four league games and the winners of just one of their seven matches in the capital in the past twelve months.


    Abou 'Diabolical' Diaby
    He's not even average.


    Arsenal
    Evidence of "a better defensive balance" was the one consolation Arsene Wenger could take from an anaemic display at the Riverside. As Alex Song should be capable of filling in as a defensive midfielder and the under-rated Johan Djourou has the potential to be Kolo Toure's successor, Wenger ought to reconsider his priorities for the next transfer window and put a winger with a long history of good health at the top of his shopping list.

    The wheels came off Arsenal's title bid last season when they travelled to Wigan in March without six wingers and a similar deficiency hurt them against Boro. There will not be many matches won with Abou Diaby and Denilson on the flanks and their lack of suitability for the position made Boro's plan of crowding out the centre of the pitch both simple and effective. The 16-year-old Jack Wilshere to start against Liverpool? Such should be Wenger's desperation, don't bet against it.


    Mark Hughes
    After five defeats from their last eight matches, who can blame City's Dubai owners if they are having doubts about their manager.


    Bolton Wanderers
    Have conceded eight goals at Villa Park in as many months.


    West Brom
    Adrift at the bottom of the table. The number of points they require just to match the points-tally of the side fourth from bottom is half as many as they have collected in their first seventeen matches.


    The Manager Of The Month Award
    Of the four winners so far this season - August's Gareth Southgate September's Phil Brown, October's Rafa Benitez and November's Gary Megson - three have then suffered defeat in their next match: Southgate's Boro at Pompey on Sept 13, Benitez's Liverpool at Tottenham on Nov 1 and Megson's Bolton at Villa this weekend.

    Pete Gill
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    Post by Parks lives Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:33 pm

    Abou 'Diabolical' Diaby
    He's not even average.

    ok The kind of player only Agooner would hype.
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:37 pm

    I find it chuffing hilarious that many of the most ardent Thierry Henry haters on the board are also massive Ashley Young fanboys.

    Chuffing hilarious I tell you.
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    Post by Hlebagone Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:43 pm

    Parks lives wrote:Abou 'Diabolical' Diaby
    He's not even average.

    ok The kind of player only Agooner would hype.

    I just think that he has the football brain akin to a 6 year old mongoloid. Dribbling he is technically excellent but fails to capitalise upon anything good he does.
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    Post by debaser Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:44 pm

    Aston Villa Ale

    Don't buy that line about Gerrard's chances-to-goals ratio - I suppose it depends how they classify a 'chance', but whenever I see Pool, he seems to take plenty of pot shots from the edge of the box, at generally low success rate...
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    Post by debaser Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:47 pm

    Glenjamin Hysénus wrote:I find it chuffing hilarious that many of the most ardent Thierry Henry haters on the board are also massive Ashley Young fanboys.

    Chuffing hilarious I tell you.
    Ah I'm sure the backlash will come along soon enough. Everyone loves him (except Cotr). This can't last.
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    Post by fcb Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:19 pm

    debaubler wrote:Aston Villa Ale

    Don't buy that line about Gerrard's chances-to-goals ratio - I suppose it depends how they classify a 'chance', but whenever I see Pool, he seems to take plenty of pot shots from the edge of the box, at generally low success rate...

    Many of his attempts from outside the box are blocked or rebound off other players...I'm assuming those don't count as "chances" or "shots on target"
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:23 pm

    Bentiez's tactical genius strikes again Ale

    Saw a rumour in the papers yeaterday that Ramos wants to sign Ashley Young in January. Any truth?
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    Post by Cesc Soler Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:24 pm

    Agree on the Djourou point, hopefully Wenger gives him and Gallas time to strike up a decent partnership. Although it has to be said the Frenchman might not be at Arsenal much longer. Hopefully he stays until the summer, if he goes before then we will reduce our chances of further progression in the Champions League significantly. I like Djourou and can remember saying two years ago that he is more suited to English football than Senderos.

    Song is decent offensively but hopeless at getting things going forward, he is a squad player at best.

    I know he has been injured recently but Niko Kranjcar would be a good buy for us on the flank. We might be able to let them have Traore as part of the deal. I know we have injury woes in that position but you can't expect young central players to perform there each week, we must strenghten that area as well.
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:26 pm

    Yep

    Senderos is more suited to the Italian game where the players are overhyped and the teams are shitter ok
    Deluded F*ck™
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:27 pm

    Glenjamin Hysénus wrote:I find it chuffing hilarious that many of the most ardent Thierry Henry haters on the board are also massive Ashley Young fanboys.

    Chuffing hilarious I tell you.

    I don't get it scratch
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    Post by Axeslammer Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:31 pm

    Tweedle wrote:touch was so bad.
    Tim Cahill
    Who needs strikers? The combined cost of the four used by City on Saturday - Robinho, Jo, Darius Vassell and Benjani - is approximately £56m but Everton's match-winner was a midfielder deployed as a lone frontman because of an injury crisis. He cost a mere £1.5m.

    I'd take Cahill over any one of those four players anyway...

    I'd take Cahill and Arteta combined over those four players combined too.


    ....too bad for Everton they (almost) don't have any quality besides those two players Ale
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    Post by Cesc Soler Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:36 pm

    Senderos has barely played a game in Italy, five at the most. A Milan poster said he was a "moronic signing" yesterday. It's hard to see where his level is at the moment, it would be a shame to see his career fade away because he can't handle the mental aspect of the game.

    Madrid need right sided players not ones for the left.
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:40 pm

    Gerrard's chances to goals ratio, ie when he get's a chance in the box or gets put clean through on goal, you'd have as much confidence in him as you would with any top class striker.
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    Post by Axeslammer Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:44 pm

    Glenjamin Hysénus wrote:Gerrard's chances to goals ratio, ie when he get's a chance in the box or gets put clean through on goal, you'd have as much confidence in him as you would with any top class striker.

    I vote for Glenjani Hysenia as next England manager : playing Gerard as striker solves two problems at once Ale
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    Post by Sgoater1 Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:53 pm

    Axeslammer wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:touch was so bad.
    Tim Cahill
    Who needs strikers? The combined cost of the four used by City on Saturday - Robinho, Jo, Darius Vassell and Benjani - is approximately £56m but Everton's match-winner was a midfielder deployed as a lone frontman because of an injury crisis. He cost a mere £1.5m.

    I'd take Cahill over any one of those four players anyway...

    I'd take Cahill and Arteta combined over those four players combined too.


    ....too bad for Everton they (almost) don't have any quality besides those two players Ale

    Cahill is a great player (who cost £4m not £1.5m from Millwall) but seriously would you have him ahead of Robinho ? you must be off your head mate.
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    Post by stinger Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:55 pm

    Axeslammer wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:touch was so bad.
    Tim Cahill
    Who needs strikers? The combined cost of the four used by City on Saturday - Robinho, Jo, Darius Vassell and Benjani - is approximately £56m but Everton's match-winner was a midfielder deployed as a lone frontman because of an injury crisis. He cost a mere £1.5m.

    I'd take Cahill over any one of those four players anyway...

    I'd take Cahill and Arteta combined over those four players combined too.


    ....too bad for Everton they (almost) don't have any quality besides those two players Ale
    Fighting


    Sgoater - Cahill definitely didn't cost 4 mln. 1.5 mln is most used price and the one which is IMHO correct.


    Last edited by stinger on Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:56 pm

    Goater,

    Are you worried? Do you think Hughes will be able to keep hold of his job?

    And what's wrong? When I spoke to you about this in the summer you seemed to think that you were strong everywhere.
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    Post by Axeslammer Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:57 pm

    Sgoater1 wrote:
    Cahill is a great player (who cost £4m not £1.5m from Millwall) but seriously would you have him ahead of Robinho ? you must be off your head mate.

    I overrate Cahill compared to common opinion and underrate Robinho compared to common opinion.

    For me it's a no-brainer : a perfect teamplayer or a spoiled individual who throws his toys out of the pram at any opportunity.

    Cahill will perform against good and poor opposition, Robinho only against the poor IMO.
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    Post by Axeslammer Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:58 pm

    stinger wrote:
    ....too bad for Everton they (almost) don't have any quality besides those two players Ale
    Fighting


    1) I said "too bad"...

    2) I'm right
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:59 pm

    Axeslammer wrote:
    stinger wrote:
    ....too bad for Everton they (almost) don't have any quality besides those two players Ale
    Fighting


    1) I said "too bad"...

    2) I'm right

    scratch

    *cough* Fellaini *cough*
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    Post by Axeslammer Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:01 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    Axeslammer wrote:
    stinger wrote:
    ....too bad for Everton they (almost) don't have any quality besides those two players Ale
    Fighting


    1) I said "too bad"...

    2) I'm right

    scratch

    *cough* Fellaini *cough*

    Embarassed
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    Post by Sgoater1 Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:10 pm

    Axeslammer wrote:
    Sgoater1 wrote:
    Cahill is a great player (who cost £4m not £1.5m from Millwall) but seriously would you have him ahead of Robinho ? you must be off your head mate.

    I overrate Cahill compared to common opinion and underrate Robinho compared to common opinion.

    For me it's a no-brainer : a perfect teamplayer or a spoiled individual who throws his toys out of the pram at any opportunity.

    Cahill will perform against good and poor opposition, Robinho only against the poor IMO.

    He scored and played well against Chelsea and Arsenal this season ! RObinho is a world class player, your allowed your opinion so we will have to agree to disagree.
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    Post by Axeslammer Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:16 pm

    Sgoater1 wrote:you're allowed your opinion so we will have to agree to disagree.

    No problem with that Ale

    I'm not someone who thinks of his own opinion as the absolute truth Wink
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    Post by Sgoater1 Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:18 pm

    Tweedle wrote:Goater,

    Are you worried? Do you think Hughes will be able to keep hold of his job?

    And what's wrong? When I spoke to you about this in the summer you seemed to think that you were strong everywhere.

    Not too worried yet, ask me after the next 3 games or so (WBA, Hull, Blackburn ) we have a good squad who are just not clicking or having any luck at the moment. I still think Hughes will get us sorted, if we had drawn on sat we would have only lost 1 in 7 having played Arsenal, Everton and U*d at home who are all decent sides and Hull, Fulham and Schalke away...not easy fixtures.

    Its been tough at the moment, we have had a lot of injuries (not a big excuse cos i believe the sign of a good side is one that as a squad to cope with injuries and suspensions) with Boj, Johnson and Petrov out all season, Robinho has been injured over the last month and playing with injections, SWP, ELano and Richards have a all missed games as well.

    We need to sort out the defence, its leaking to many goals and sort out the structure, maybe go 442. A lot will depend on when players return from injury and who we buy in january.
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    Glenarch of the Glen


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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:23 pm

    The HuddFather™️ wrote:
    Glenjamin Hysénus wrote:I find it chuffing hilarious that many of the most ardent Thierry Henry haters on the board are also massive Ashley Young fanboys.

    Chuffing hilarious I tell you.

    I don't get it scratch

    Try changing your aftershave ok
    christmasborocooper
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    Post by christmasborocooper Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:27 pm

    The HuddFather™️ wrote:
    Glenjamin Hysénus wrote:I find it chuffing hilarious that many of the most ardent Thierry Henry haters on the board are also massive Ashley Young fanboys.

    Chuffing hilarious I tell you.

    I don't get it scratch

    I would imagine its something to do with them both being very quick, not afraid of a bit of push and run, both good at set pieces and decent when 1 on 1. Thats what I get from it.
    debaser
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    Post by debaser Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:28 pm

    Young's goals vs Everton were very Henry-y.
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    Post by christmasborocooper Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:34 pm

    and that scares them.
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    Glenarch of the Glen


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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:03 pm

    if Henry had played for Watford, instead of Arsenal, then I'm pretty sure Pierrenis and Uncle TomSpirit would be singing from a different hymn sheet entirely.

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