Chelsea vs. Liverpool - CL quarterfinal discussion thread

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

TM wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Ray Parlour wrote:Those are the top 4 strikers no doubt

Villa can't be ranked alongside teh other 3 IMO - not til he joins Barca/Real/Milan/Inter/EPL Big 4.

He needs to do it under that sort of pressure.

Wasnt he the leading scorer at European Championships?

Couldn't even score v the worst back 5 to ever reach a major tournament final though TBF.

That might just be because he was injuried in the final though.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

TM wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Ray Parlour wrote:He's done it at International level.

Needs to do it in CL KO phases against the best/biggest clubs.

The other 3 all have.

The 3 being: Eto'o, Torres and Drogs?

Sorry - should have been 4.

Eto'o, Torres, Drogba and Adebayor.

Adebayour? Really?

Not sure about his KO round record, but he only has 8 goals for Arsenal in the CL in his career.

TM wrote:Adebayour? Really?

Not sure about his KO round record, but he only has 8 goals for Arsenal in the CL in his career.

Liverpool Home and Away, Milan away, Villarreal away.

TM wrote:Adebayour? Really?

Not sure about his KO round record, but he only has 8 goals for Arsenal in the CL in his career.

He's not quite there yet, but last season he was phenomenal in the league and this year his still managed 10/11 goals so far I think. He's not that old for the type of player that he is too.

Also, he only really became a regular for us last season in the CL. Pierre loves him because, like Drogba, when he's in the mood he's unplayable.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

TM wrote:Adebayour? Really?

Not sure about his KO round record, but he only has 8 goals for Arsenal in the CL in his career.

Liverpool Home and Away, Milan away, Villarreal away.

I'm*

It's a good record but he's only played CL football for 3 years, we'll take a look at his record in a couple of years time.

Tweedle wrote:

TM wrote:Adebayour? Really?

Not sure about his KO round record, but he only has 8 goals for Arsenal in the CL in his career.

He's not quite there yet, but last season he was phenomenal in the league and this year his still managed 10/11 goals so far I think. He's not that old for the type of player that he is too.

Also, he only really became a regular for us last season in the CL. Pierre loves him because, like Drogba, when he's in the mood he's unplayable.

That's why he likes Iaquinta aswell

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Tweedle wrote:

TM wrote:Adebayour? Really?

Not sure about his KO round record, but he only has 8 goals for Arsenal in the CL in his career.

He's not quite there yet, but last season he was phenomenal in the league and this year his still managed 10/11 goals so far I think. He's not that old for the type of player that he is too.

Also, he only really became a regular for us last season in the CL. Pierre loves him because, like Drogba, when he's in the mood he's unplayable.

That's why he likes Iaquinta aswell

Legend - nice finish on Saturday.

Tweedle wrote:Best Champions league game I think I've ever seen!

S4P wrote:Who was that Spanish wanker who called Liverpool v Chelsea shit on a stick?

Looks like I'm going to have to be the odd one out today.

Ray Parlour wrote:The beautiful game is still here!

Super Madrid wrote:

COTR wrote:

Tweedle wrote:

COTR wrote:This must be how Spanish fans feel every week

Why?

Lots of goals

Shit defending

Shit referring

Amazing matches

Not exactly because there was alot of passing mistakes and the game wasn't about great build up,skill. This game was more what I figure as a classic high tempo English game.

Lrd
My bad and im not spanish.

Maybe not.

In such a high scoring game the general quality of the football was truly poor. This was embarrassing for the EPL. Only good finishes a couple of passing combinations from Liverpool were on show. One piece of skill from Benayoun and that was it for the whole match.

Poor defending and goal keeping from both teams throughout.

When you consider people might put the best PL GK they would name Reina, Cech, VDS, Friedel Given. Really its just not good enough.

Only Alonso today showed that he could play in passing teams with all the other players just running around. The midfields were dead today. Keep on running + running + running + running...

stop being a snob and enjoy life shaz

Woke up on the wrong side?

L-r d wrote:stop being a snob and enjoy life shaz

there had to be one.

I rate intelligence and composure the most (though good skill is fun). Take away Alonso and there was hardly any today other than Lampard's, Aurelio's and Kuyt's finishes.

shazlx wrote:I rate intelligence and composure the most (though good skill is fun).

thats nice at times.

but you cant beat excitement, tension and drama. todays game had it in spades.

Rosicky wrote:

shazlx wrote:I rate intelligence and composure the most (though good skill is fun).

thats nice at times.

but you cant beat excitement, tension and drama. todays game had it in spades.

i don't think it woulda been half as exciting had it not been hectic or without mistakes. It's a bizarre view of the world that seems rather dull

What a game! Not sure if I can add much but I thought I'd show my face. No ill feeling towards Chelsea, they deserved to go through but they did break unexpectedly break my heart.

I'll admit I thought when Kuyt scored we were about to see a fairytale, but alas it was not to be.

As far as the game itself is concerned I have no idea what was happening. I watched the game with a friend (a Manchester United fan) who was equally amazed by the game. Such entertainment and at the end Chelsea went through virtue of their superior performance in the first leg.

I haven't had a chance to read this thread yet but I'm guessing it's full of gloating, plus the same people who were bored by the chess matches of previous seasons deriding the tactical display this evening. Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised but I somehow doubt it.

Chelsea for the Champions League
Arsenal for the FA Cup
Manchester United for the Carling Cup
Liverpool for the title!

Sharabi Gunda

Oh god well I got to page 39 and couldn't stomach anymore, so many words and so little sense. It's weird reading back through the events though with people's little commentary. The actual result for me didn't sink in til the highlights, I enjoyed the game but watching the highlights when Lampard scored Chelsea's 4th (right in the middle of a polite conversation) I hurled my lighter at the wall quite involuntary.

Notes from what I read so far, Jorge Valdano

I'd a agree with Pierre, Drogba is easily the best striker in the world right now, although Torres has had a better season and comparable consistency while in England. On form it's no contest. I was saying to my friend before the game that if Torres is the best striker in the world then he's the worst best striker in the world for a while.

I don't know if anyone mentioned it, certainly not upto page 39 but the introduction of Keane for Torres was a strange point in the game. I was calling for Rafa to give up and sub Carragher if not Torres but the substitution seemed to tell Chelsea that the game was over and they just stopped playing. Kuyt picked up a goal kick in the centre of the pitch completely unchallenged and the Chelsea midfield became like spectators for a short while.

Can't remember the other points I wanted to make, I'll try and finish reading the thread and see if my memory gets jogged, I haven't seen Rafa's press conference yet but if he says we controlled the game he's a fucking liar!

Good grief reading this thread is a dry chore!

I wanted to mention Torres, some people on here thought he had a bad game, I thought Chelsea dealt with him well but watching him is a treat, he may not be the best finisher but his movement is terrific and the fact that Chelsea had 2 and sometimes 3 players watching him is a mark of respect and better strikers have had worse games against such opposition, Drogba by comparison let's not forget was playing much of the game against a back 2, on the shoulder of an exhausted Carragher or Skrtel with Aurelio and Arbeloa lost in the opponents half, not to take anything away from Drogba or Chelsea because Liverpool were chasing the game thanks to them, just a note on how the two strikers were looked after. It also interesting to see how lost the Chelsea defence were when they no longer had Torres to look for and Kuyt, Ngog and Alonso caused more problems.

I don't like the complaints over the refereeing, as I say I didn't see Rafa's press conference but I would like to think he wouldn't blame the referee. I don't think either side really got in the ref's face which was a good thing for such a big tie and I didn't notice any blatant fouls in the build up to Chelsea's goals, although I am hammered.

As for the goalkeeping debate, Drogba's goal was luck that he earned with his endeavor, Aurelio's goal was intelligent, I was screaming at the tv for him to shoot!

Go to bed mate

all drogba did was score a goal, that reina put in the net for him, whats all the hype about.

not to say he isn't one of the best.

Messiah wrote:all drogba did was score a goal, that reina put in the net for him, whats all the hype about.

not to say he isn't one of the best.

You watched the Barca game?

shazlx wrote:I rate intelligence and composure the most (though good skill is fun). Take away Alonso and there was hardly any today other than Lampard's, Aurelio's and Kuyt's finishes.

So that's Alonso and three instances of intelligence and composure, which you privilege above all else. So, why didn't you absolutely love the game?

L-r d wrote:

Messiah wrote:all drogba did was score a goal, that reina put in the net for him, whats all the hype about.

not to say he isn't one of the best.

You watched the Barca game?

1st half of the barca game, 2nd half of the chelsea V liverpool match

in fact i just finished watching the entire chelsea game.

why do you ask?.

Well you appeared to be watching the barca game. Then you say you don't get what Drogba did in this thread when he was great, so i was thinking you didn't see the game.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Ray Parlour wrote:Those are the top 4 strikers no doubt

Villa can't be ranked alongside teh other 3 IMO - not til he joins Barca/Real/Milan/Inter/EPL Big 4.

He needs to do it under that sort of pressure.

it's easier to score bags of goals for Barcelona, Madrid, etc. then for Valencia, though...

S4P wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

S4P wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Six wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

Six wrote:Hiddink definitely still luckiest manager alive. Chelsea could win the CL simply because of this.

How as that win lucky? Chelsea deserved to go through over two games. Not that they were great in either leg but still think they deserved it.

I was saying it before this tie and neither match has done anything to change my mind basically. Just after Aurelio messes up a good chance, he gets a lucky break when Reina makes his first fuck up of the season. Ivanovic who would never normally play scoring two headers at Anfield is 100% Hiddink style luck as well. They deserved it, but these were huge, huge turning points that had nothing to do with Hiddink. I'm just saying they could easily win the whole thing because of his luck.

That's exactly what Man Utd did last year.

And AC Milan the year before, and Barcelona the year before that and Liverpool the year before that, Porto the year before that etc...

Gets kinda boring doesn't it?

No

Just Man Utd

I can't think of the last time a team won the competition without having that slice of luck.

That element of luck theory is true actually...perhaps Chelsea are destined to win it this year!

toon h wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Ray Parlour wrote:Those are the top 4 strikers no doubt

Villa can't be ranked alongside teh other 3 IMO - not til he joins Barca/Real/Milan/Inter/EPL Big 4.

He needs to do it under that sort of pressure.

it's easier to score bags of goals for Barcelona, Madrid, etc. then for Valencia, though...

That logic is flawed really. A billion examples would counter it. Some players simply look out of place with better ones or struggle with pressure or simply team isn't built around them etc etc. Like you might have a good goalscorer who will get you 15-20 every season but he might not be a top 4 player. cant think of la liga examples but keane was a big one this season

L-r d wrote:

toon h wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Ray Parlour wrote:Those are the top 4 strikers no doubt

Villa can't be ranked alongside teh other 3 IMO - not til he joins Barca/Real/Milan/Inter/EPL Big 4.

He needs to do it under that sort of pressure.

it's easier to score bags of goals for Barcelona, Madrid, etc. then for Valencia, though...

That logic is flawed really. A billion examples would counter it. Some players simply look out of place with better ones or struggle with pressure or simply team isn't built around them etc etc. Like you might have a good goalscorer who will get you 15-20 every season but he might not be a top 4 player. cant think of la liga examples but keane was a big one this season

I thought the manager would have to like him, and give him full support 1st, before outting such labels.

He did score away to Arsenal and Atletico

tbh, I can't help but think this would apply to Diego Milito - his goal record is great yet none of La Liga's or Serie A's top sides picked him up.

L-r d wrote:

toon h wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Ray Parlour wrote:Those are the top 4 strikers no doubt

Villa can't be ranked alongside teh other 3 IMO - not til he joins Barca/Real/Milan/Inter/EPL Big 4.

He needs to do it under that sort of pressure.

it's easier to score bags of goals for Barcelona, Madrid, etc. then for Valencia, though...

That logic is flawed really. A billion examples would counter it. Some players simply look out of place with better ones or struggle with pressure or simply team isn't built around them etc etc. Like you might have a good goalscorer who will get you 15-20 every season but he might not be a top 4 player. cant think of la liga examples but keane was a big one this season

the logic may not be water-tight but it generally holds. Some players, like managers, just don't work with certain teams, whether they'd be top 4 or not. Some players play better for top teams than smaller teams. The fact that top teams generally have more goal-scoring opportunities though, and that strikers are better supported there, does indicate strikers are more likely to get more goals. Eto'o is IMO not as clinical a finisher as Villa he just gets so many more opportunities to score.
The Keane argument doesn't really hold as he never was given time or confidence. A good La Liga example is Zidane who everyone thought was a flop for his first half season.

Superb game, glad I switched over even though I missed the first 2 Liverpool goals. Like everyone has said, it was great entertainment because it was so end-to-end, featured many mistakes, and had constant swings in momentum and the possible result. And like a couple of others said, Liverpool and Chelsea owe us this after the turgid shit they turned out the first 2-3 times that we had this matchup.

But it's surprising to see everyone ripping into Valdano. It's typical fans' mentality - if a pundit picks against my team to win, or says anything negative about how we play, he must be shit and clueless, even if I support Stoke.

What Valdano said at the time about Liverpool-Chelsea was perfectly appropriate for the games they had produced. And if you read his actual comments in full, beyond the "shit on a stick" tagline, he points out the following:

"Chelsea and Liverpool are the clearest, most exaggerated example of the way football is going: very intense, very collective, very tactical, very physical, and very direct," he added. "But, a short pass? Noooo. A feint? Noooo. A change of pace? Noooo. A one-two? A nutmeg? A backheel? Don't be ridiculous. None of that. The extreme control and seriousness with which both teams played the semi-final neutralised any creative licence, any moments of exquisite skill.

"If Didier Drogba was the best player in the first match it was purely because he was the one who ran the fastest, jumped the highest and crashed into people the hardest. Such extreme intensity wipes away talent, even leaving a player of Joe Cole's class disoriented. If football is going the way Chelsea and Liverpool are taking it, we had better be ready to wave goodbye to any expression of the cleverness and talent we have enjoyed for a century."

Based even on last night's game...is he really that wrong? Maybe we saw some more skill, less controlled tactics, but at the end of the day, it's the physical aspects that these two teams (and the other 2 English teams in the Big 4, and soon Inter with Mourinho now working his "magic" there) have completely mastered and taken to a new level.

But there is one thing that Valdano doesn't acknowledge - these teams and Man. Utd. show incredible mental toughness. Apart from just running fast and tackling hard, this fighting spirit is a big reason for why the English Big 4 are achieving success. No surprise that Arsenal lag behind the other 3, when they have more young players who are not as mentally strong.