U*d ticket row continues

Manchester United, under pressure from the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), have agreed to revise their season ticket policies to make them fairer for fans.

A season ticket will now ensure a seat at all home league and cup games.

The club has also dropped its "One Year Only" ticket and promised to be more transparent in its dealings with fans.

"This is a significant victory for supporters," said Duncan Drasdo, the chief executive of the Manchester United Supporters Trust (MUST).

The OFT started its investigation into the Premier League leaders' ticketing practices last December following a complaint from MUST, which was supported in its action by national fans' groups the Football Supporters' Federation and Supporters Direct.

United, which recently announced debts of £750m largely related to the purchase of the club by Malcolm Glazer in 2005, denied its terms and conditions were unfair but told the OFT it would implement the changes the consumer watchdog flagged up in time for next season.

Among those changes are pledges to provide clearer information on when, where and why season ticket holders are relocated for cup games, more information on the potential cost of long cup runs and a clearer appeal process for disputes over season-ticket cancellations because of non-payment for cup games.

Armed with this initial victory we now hope we can secure a fairer deal for all fans.

This last issue was raised by a number of MUST's 35,000 members, some of whom had their season tickets automatically cancelled when automatic payments for cup games failed to go through.

MUST actually asked the government agency to look into three areas of United's ticketing policy but the OFT opted to only pursue the "terms and conditions" claims, saying a wider probe would have been too expensive.

This means Manchester United, the world's second-richest football club in terms of revenue, can continue their controversial Automatic Cup Scheme (ACS), which means season ticket holders are required to purchase tickets for cup games, by automatic direct debit, whether they want them or not.

The club, which has enjoyed considerable success in recent years, did make one concession to fans this season - exempting Carling Cup games from the ACS - but has made it clear it intends to continue with the scheme in the future.

The Club World Cup holders have, however, agreed to guarantee all season ticket holders a seat for every home cup tie. Last season, some holders of the "One Year Only" ticket did not get tickets for the most attractive cup ties.

"We are very pleased a season ticket will continue to include (European and FA) cup matches," said Manchester United's chief operating officer Michael Bollingbroke.


Glazer borrowed heavily to buy Man Utd, saddling the club with huge debts

"That is central to our strategy and we have made the necessary changes for next season to avoid the situation where holders of some season tickets were not guaranteed tickets for some cup games.

"While the number potentially affected was small, we accept all season tickets should come with that guarantee in future."

But MUST still wants the OFT to investigate the ACS under competition law, as well as looking into ticket price increases since the Glazer family took over.

A spokesman for MUST told BBC Sport that season ticket prices have risen by 50-60% since 2005, although he admitted season ticket holders get more games than before.

But he also said the OFT's first foray into United's ticketing practices should act as a "springboard" for further action and represented a "major step for a club that rarely listens to its fans".

Drasdo added that experts consulted by MUST are certain that the ACS, the price increases and other "unfair practices" constitute an "abuse of a dominant market position".

"The OFT has, until now, not agreed to consider this under competition law due to resource implications," he said.

"But armed with this initial victory we now hope, with the further support of MPs from all parties and fans' organisations representing many clubs, we can persuade the OFT as to the merits of such an investigation and together secure a fairer deal for all fans."

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Its such a disgrace a club can automatically cancel someones season ticket if they dont buy cup tickets. £750m debt...No wonder they cant afford Tevez.

Glazer is fucking the club up, putting so much pressure on them being succssful or else they will be in massive financial trouble. They are coping ok now but when Taggart leaves they could be in a lot of trouble.

I hope the fans enjoyed paying over £100 to go watch the reserves on Sunday.

I know i will get shit for posting this but im sure the majority of U*d fans on here know im not a bitter blue, the fact is i think this is a disgrace and i would post this if it was another club in the same position.

are any of the United fans on here season ticket holders?

I am not one for this very reason goater eludes too. It's simply a disgrace they treated long time season ticket holders like this and we had enough.

Glentuple wrote:are any of the United fans on here season ticket holders?

any united fans on here live within 300miles of manchester?

eludes too

I think you mean alludes to

if you elude something you escape, avoid, evade it.

too means excessively or also

Lrd makes too many mistakes.

Rosicky makes a lot too.

Glentuple wrote:

Rosicky makes a lot too.

I have never wroted a sentence quite as bad as this on emb:

I am not one for this very reason goater eludes too

I just wish prices were cheaper, though I guess then we wouldn't be able to pay player wages.

Wroted

Glentuple wrote:eludes too

I think you mean alludes to

if you elude something you escape, avoid, evade it.

too means excessively or also

Lrd makes too many mistakes.

Rosicky makes a lot too.

This is a football forum nothing else dude. If you can understand me then don't get caught up on spelling or grammar it's hardly essential to the subjects being discussed

L r-d wrote:Wroted

Irony, glenn.

i was taking the piss.

L-r d wrote:

Glentuple wrote:eludes too

I think you mean alludes to

if you elude something you escape, avoid, evade it.

too means excessively or also

Lrd makes too many mistakes.

Rosicky makes a lot too.

This is a football forum nothing else dude. If you can understand me then don't get caught up on spelling or grammar it's hardly essential to the subjects being discussed

was I taking the piss or was I giving you a free lesson?

think about it, learn from it and thank me. It will help you in life, not just on the forum.

whatever dude

i saw you're other post glenda why did you delete it

Glentuple wrote:

L-r d wrote:

Glentuple wrote:eludes too

I think you mean alludes to

if you elude something you escape, avoid, evade it.

too means excessively or also

Lrd makes too many mistakes.

Rosicky makes a lot too.

This is a football forum nothing else dude. If you can understand me then don't get caught up on spelling or grammar it's hardly essential to the subjects being discussed

was I taking the piss or was I giving you a free lesson?

think about it, learn from it and thank me. It will help you in life, not just on the forum.

I am sure if it mattered i would make sure my wording and sentences were perfectly correct...but it doesn't

L-r d wrote:

Glentuple wrote:

L-r d wrote:

Glentuple wrote:eludes too

I think you mean alludes to

if you elude something you escape, avoid, evade it.

too means excessively or also

Lrd makes too many mistakes.

Rosicky makes a lot too.

This is a football forum nothing else dude. If you can understand me then don't get caught up on spelling or grammar it's hardly essential to the subjects being discussed

was I taking the piss or was I giving you a free lesson?

think about it, learn from it and thank me. It will help you in life, not just on the forum.

I am sure if it mattered i would make sure my wording and sentences were perfectly correct...but it doesn't

well clearly you didn't know the difference between alludes and eludes. Now you do. Any instead of thanking me you're defending your ignorance.

Rosicky wrote:i saw you're other post glenda why did you delete it

you saw I am what now?

Glentuple wrote:

L-r d wrote:

Glentuple wrote:

L-r d wrote:

Glentuple wrote:eludes too

I think you mean alludes to

if you elude something you escape, avoid, evade it.

too means excessively or also

Lrd makes too many mistakes.

Rosicky makes a lot too.

This is a football forum nothing else dude. If you can understand me then don't get caught up on spelling or grammar it's hardly essential to the subjects being discussed

was I taking the piss or was I giving you a free lesson?

think about it, learn from it and thank me. It will help you in life, not just on the forum.

I am sure if it mattered i would make sure my wording and sentences were perfectly correct...but it doesn't

well clearly you didn't know the difference between alludes and eludes. Now you do. Any instead of thanking me you're defending your ignorance.

I know the difference between to and too but i made that mistake as well...why? because it doesn't matter. So you know nothing of what i know

Glentuple wrote:
well clearly you didn't know the difference between alludes and eludes. Now you do. Any instead of thanking me you're defending your ignorance.

WHAT?



rule 1: when picking other people up on their spelling and grammar, make sure you get your own correct.

end lesson

typos and spelling aren't the same Chinston

Rosicky wrote:

Glentuple wrote:
well clearly you didn't know the difference between alludes and eludes. Now you do. Any instead of thanking me you're defending your ignorance.

WHAT?



rule 1: when picking other people up on their spelling and grammar, make sure you get your own correct.

end lesson

I hope glenn thanks you for the lesson rather than delete his error as usual.

Glentuple wrote:typos and spelling aren't the same Chinston

im not so sure chinstopher, the d and y arnt that close on the old keyboard.

it's muscle memory, not sausage fingers

Sgoater1 wrote:
But MUST still wants the OFT to investigate the ACS under competition law, as well as looking into ticket price increases since the Glazer family took over.

A spokesman for MUST told BBC Sport that season ticket prices have risen by 50-60% since 2005, although he admitted season ticket holders get more games than before.

Is that true or has it been exagerated because that seems like an awful lot. On the other hand Man Utd fans must also know that that fighting these ticket price increases they are steering the club towards a downfall because with all the money they have lent they have to get what ever money is possible. So basically they damned either way untill the glazers fuck off. A sad situation but I gotta wonder if is possible for a big club like Man Utd to crash in such a manner or is the debt in control?

Super Madrid wrote:

Sgoater1 wrote:
But MUST still wants the OFT to investigate the ACS under competition law, as well as looking into ticket price increases since the Glazer family took over.

A spokesman for MUST told BBC Sport that season ticket prices have risen by 50-60% since 2005, although he admitted season ticket holders get more games than before.

Is that true or has it been exagerated because that seems like an awful lot. On the other hand Man Utd fans must also know that that fighting these ticket price increases they are steering the club towards a downfall because with all the money they have lent they have to get what ever money is possible. So basically they damned either way untill the glazers fuck off. A sad situation but I gotta wonder if is possible for a big club like Man Utd to crash in such a manner or is the debt in control?

United could probably charge double and still fill the stadium every week. They could charge even more if they abolished season tickets and just put them on general sale, but then they wouldn't get a lump sum and it would be a nightmare logistically.

Glentuple wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

Sgoater1 wrote:
But MUST still wants the OFT to investigate the ACS under competition law, as well as looking into ticket price increases since the Glazer family took over.

A spokesman for MUST told BBC Sport that season ticket prices have risen by 50-60% since 2005, although he admitted season ticket holders get more games than before.

Is that true or has it been exagerated because that seems like an awful lot. On the other hand Man Utd fans must also know that that fighting these ticket price increases they are steering the club towards a downfall because with all the money they have lent they have to get what ever money is possible. So basically they damned either way untill the glazers fuck off. A sad situation but I gotta wonder if is possible for a big club like Man Utd to crash in such a manner or is the debt in control?

United could probably charge double and still fill the stadium every week. They could charge even more if they abolished season tickets and just put them on general sale, but then they wouldn't get a lump sum and it would be a nightmare logistically.

It's a tough decision they have to make over at the Ranch headquarters.

I guess the board is comfortable in the knowledge that a new shipment of supporters can be landed in every week if the loyal fanbase did desert them

I can't see the Glazers being too happy with any concessions. The club is a revenue generating colossus but still they register huge loses year on year. It doesn't seem like a very sustaintable situation but we barely know anything so it's all pure speculation. Maybe we should ask Lrd to predict the future for us

Super Madrid wrote:

Sgoater1 wrote:
But MUST still wants the OFT to investigate the ACS under competition law, as well as looking into ticket price increases since the Glazer family took over.

A spokesman for MUST told BBC Sport that season ticket prices have risen by 50-60% since 2005, although he admitted season ticket holders get more games than before.

Is that true or has it been exagerated because that seems like an awful lot. On the other hand Man Utd fans must also know that that fighting these ticket price increases they are steering the club towards a downfall because with all the money they have lent they have to get what ever money is possible. So basically they damned either way untill the glazers fuck off. A sad situation but I gotta wonder if is possible for a big club like Man Utd to crash in such a manner or is the debt in control?

True mate and yes U*d fans are in a tough situation cos they want to help their team but it means getting fucked over at the same time.

As for U*d going tits up it seems impossible to comprehend but i think it could possibly happen. It wouldnt happen for while but as the debt continues to grow the pressure on their needed success increases. In the long term they could end up with massive debts that they struggle to pay off and the club would become very hard to sell but its hard to see.

However, i read this article in the mail which was interesting.................




"When Manchester United slapped AIG on their shirts you might have thought they were merely the sponsors. It appears they were secretly acting as the club’s business advisers as well.

What is happening at Old Trafford? The so-called ‘richest club in the world’ club has been revelling in the most successful period of its entire 131-year history and yet it is still posting an annual pre-tax LOSS of £44.8million.

How? Everyone knew the Glazer family’s buy-out of United with an unprecedented pile of borrowed money was a disgraceful and reckless gamble, but stark reality of the numbers being bandied about are almost beyond comprehension.

The club’s marketing clout and the success of the team under Sir Alex Ferguson generate a whopping annual turnover of £256m. But that windfall is being swallowed by the need to service interest on loans totalling £699m — a debt that is rising every year.


‘I don’t know what these figures tell you,’ said Ferguson yesterday. Run, perhaps? Admittedly, the accounts are horribly obtuse; deliberately so, no doubt. It’s a tangle of holding companies, parent companies, ‘secured’ borrowing, ‘debt streams’ and ‘payment in kind’ loans that would require the services of a professional expert to unravel, the kind of professional expert who helped lead us all to the brink of global financial disaster in the first place.

If you like calculus then they may be bedtime reading. But here is the scenario for you in a nutshell.

The Glazers are basically using their American Express card to pay off the £699m shopping bill they ran up on their Visa card. And next year, they’ll shove it all on Mastercard.

In the meantime, they are turning up at the casino and hoping the cards continue to be kind so they can cover the interest payments with their winnings.

What could possibly go wrong? Football is cyclical. Although the wheel turns much more slowly at the top than in years past, there will inevitably be a period when United are less successful. Ferguson mentions retirement more and more these days and other clubs will surely seize the initiative when that moment finally comes.

And then what? United are a bad season or two away from doing a Lehman Brothers, or a Northern Rock. The club is a sub-prime horror story, where hidden commitments, myriad loans and debts are complacently excused and numbers are crunched until they are unrecognisable.

These accounts don’t even cover the period when the credit crisis started claiming real victims, including the failed conglomerate AIG. The figures appear to show the Glazers aren’t paying off their massive debt and it’s not even clear if they’re covering all the interest.

More worryingly, the ledger seems to suggest huge repayments are due, starting in four years’ time, with bills landing on the doormat of between £75m-£150m every 12 months, followed by a massive £600m final demand in eight years."

I'm not sure the Glazer's ever intended to be in it for the long term when they negotiated the terms of their loan

They basically bought United on credit and hoped to finance the cost of this credit by stealing huge chunks of the profit, relying on the market price to increase rapidly and a huge profit resulting from the sell off

It wasn't an overly risky strategy pre credit crunch given United's power, however it is now at the whim of the banks to see what happens next. I don't see any way that the club can meet the terms of these facilities outlined on the loans (if the report is correct) so unless it is somehow restructured (which would require a very quick recovery in the credit markets over the next few years) then the only solution they have is to sell

The club as a whole is really in no danger as there will always be buyers willing to take over, especially if they can rape the Glazers on price in the process. The only people who currently stand to lose from this are the Glazers if they end up selling the club for less than they bought it. Although I should add that if the Glazers have secured the loan against the assets of the club, rather than their own assets, then there is a real chance of some sort of losses being realised by the club

Sgoater1 wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

Sgoater1 wrote:
But MUST still wants the OFT to investigate the ACS under competition law, as well as looking into ticket price increases since the Glazer family took over.

A spokesman for MUST told BBC Sport that season ticket prices have risen by 50-60% since 2005, although he admitted season ticket holders get more games than before.

Is that true or has it been exagerated because that seems like an awful lot. On the other hand Man Utd fans must also know that that fighting these ticket price increases they are steering the club towards a downfall because with all the money they have lent they have to get what ever money is possible. So basically they damned either way untill the glazers fuck off. A sad situation but I gotta wonder if is possible for a big club like Man Utd to crash in such a manner or is the debt in control?

True mate and yes U*d fans are in a tough situation cos they want to help their team but it means getting fucked over at the same time.

As for U*d going tits up it seems impossible to comprehend but i think it could possibly happen. It wouldnt happen for while but as the debt continues to grow the pressure on their needed success increases. In the long term they could end up with massive debts that they struggle to pay off and the club would become very hard to sell but its hard to see.

However, i read this article in the mail which was interesting.................




"When Manchester United slapped AIG on their shirts you might have thought they were merely the sponsors. It appears they were secretly acting as the club’s business advisers as well.

What is happening at Old Trafford? The so-called ‘richest club in the world’ club has been revelling in the most successful period of its entire 131-year history and yet it is still posting an annual pre-tax LOSS of £44.8million.

How? Everyone knew the Glazer family’s buy-out of United with an unprecedented pile of borrowed money was a disgraceful and reckless gamble, but stark reality of the numbers being bandied about are almost beyond comprehension.

The club’s marketing clout and the success of the team under Sir Alex Ferguson generate a whopping annual turnover of £256m. But that windfall is being swallowed by the need to service interest on loans totalling £699m — a debt that is rising every year.


‘I don’t know what these figures tell you,’ said Ferguson yesterday. Run, perhaps? Admittedly, the accounts are horribly obtuse; deliberately so, no doubt. It’s a tangle of holding companies, parent companies, ‘secured’ borrowing, ‘debt streams’ and ‘payment in kind’ loans that would require the services of a professional expert to unravel, the kind of professional expert who helped lead us all to the brink of global financial disaster in the first place.

If you like calculus then they may be bedtime reading. But here is the scenario for you in a nutshell.

The Glazers are basically using their American Express card to pay off the £699m shopping bill they ran up on their Visa card. And next year, they’ll shove it all on Mastercard.

In the meantime, they are turning up at the casino and hoping the cards continue to be kind so they can cover the interest payments with their winnings.

What could possibly go wrong? Football is cyclical. Although the wheel turns much more slowly at the top than in years past, there will inevitably be a period when United are less successful. Ferguson mentions retirement more and more these days and other clubs will surely seize the initiative when that moment finally comes.

And then what? United are a bad season or two away from doing a Lehman Brothers, or a Northern Rock. The club is a sub-prime horror story, where hidden commitments, myriad loans and debts are complacently excused and numbers are crunched until they are unrecognisable.

These accounts don’t even cover the period when the credit crisis started claiming real victims, including the failed conglomerate AIG. The figures appear to show the Glazers aren’t paying off their massive debt and it’s not even clear if they’re covering all the interest.

More worryingly, the ledger seems to suggest huge repayments are due, starting in four years’ time, with bills landing on the doormat of between £75m-£150m every 12 months, followed by a massive £600m final demand in eight years."

I simply don't get why they would allow SAF to spend soo much money on players like Nai/Anderson/Berbatov when they know that are in a thight situation. Surely this will mean cut off spending for a while or is this more of an attempt to keep being succesful and hoping it will generate the money needed?

COTR wrote:I'm not sure the Glazer's ever intended to be in it for the long term when they negotiated the terms of their loan

They basically bought United on credit and hoped to finance the cost of this credit by stealing huge chunks of the profit, relying on the market price to increase rapidly and a huge profit resulting from the sell off

It wasn't an overly risky strategy pre credit crunch given United's power, however it is now at the whim of the banks to see what happens next. I don't see any way that the club can meet the terms of these facilities outlined on the loans (if the report is correct) so unless it is somehow restructured (which would require a very quick recovery in the credit markets over the next few years) then the only solution they have is to sell

The club as a whole is really in no danger as there will always be buyers willing to take over, especially if they can rape the Glazers on price in the process. The only people who currently stand to lose from this are the Glazers if they end up selling the club for less than they bought it. Although I should add that if the Glazers have secured the loan against the assets of the club, rather than their own assets, then there is a real chance of some sort of losses being realised by the club

Yeah but as the debt gets worse, who wants to buy a club with hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds worth of debt which would need ot be paid off and then on top of this be able to fund the team to bring in top quality players and cover a massive wage bill, unless they get some Arabs in. but most of them like a project to work on not a team like U*d.

Super Madrid wrote:

Sgoater1 wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

Sgoater1 wrote:
But MUST still wants the OFT to investigate the ACS under competition law, as well as looking into ticket price increases since the Glazer family took over.

A spokesman for MUST told BBC Sport that season ticket prices have risen by 50-60% since 2005, although he admitted season ticket holders get more games than before.

Is that true or has it been exagerated because that seems like an awful lot. On the other hand Man Utd fans must also know that that fighting these ticket price increases they are steering the club towards a downfall because with all the money they have lent they have to get what ever money is possible. So basically they damned either way untill the glazers fuck off. A sad situation but I gotta wonder if is possible for a big club like Man Utd to crash in such a manner or is the debt in control?

True mate and yes U*d fans are in a tough situation cos they want to help their team but it means getting fucked over at the same time.

As for U*d going tits up it seems impossible to comprehend but i think it could possibly happen. It wouldnt happen for while but as the debt continues to grow the pressure on their needed success increases. In the long term they could end up with massive debts that they struggle to pay off and the club would become very hard to sell but its hard to see.

However, i read this article in the mail which was interesting.................




"When Manchester United slapped AIG on their shirts you might have thought they were merely the sponsors. It appears they were secretly acting as the club’s business advisers as well.

What is happening at Old Trafford? The so-called ‘richest club in the world’ club has been revelling in the most successful period of its entire 131-year history and yet it is still posting an annual pre-tax LOSS of £44.8million.

How? Everyone knew the Glazer family’s buy-out of United with an unprecedented pile of borrowed money was a disgraceful and reckless gamble, but stark reality of the numbers being bandied about are almost beyond comprehension.

The club’s marketing clout and the success of the team under Sir Alex Ferguson generate a whopping annual turnover of £256m. But that windfall is being swallowed by the need to service interest on loans totalling £699m — a debt that is rising every year.


‘I don’t know what these figures tell you,’ said Ferguson yesterday. Run, perhaps? Admittedly, the accounts are horribly obtuse; deliberately so, no doubt. It’s a tangle of holding companies, parent companies, ‘secured’ borrowing, ‘debt streams’ and ‘payment in kind’ loans that would require the services of a professional expert to unravel, the kind of professional expert who helped lead us all to the brink of global financial disaster in the first place.

If you like calculus then they may be bedtime reading. But here is the scenario for you in a nutshell.

The Glazers are basically using their American Express card to pay off the £699m shopping bill they ran up on their Visa card. And next year, they’ll shove it all on Mastercard.

In the meantime, they are turning up at the casino and hoping the cards continue to be kind so they can cover the interest payments with their winnings.

What could possibly go wrong? Football is cyclical. Although the wheel turns much more slowly at the top than in years past, there will inevitably be a period when United are less successful. Ferguson mentions retirement more and more these days and other clubs will surely seize the initiative when that moment finally comes.

And then what? United are a bad season or two away from doing a Lehman Brothers, or a Northern Rock. The club is a sub-prime horror story, where hidden commitments, myriad loans and debts are complacently excused and numbers are crunched until they are unrecognisable.

These accounts don’t even cover the period when the credit crisis started claiming real victims, including the failed conglomerate AIG. The figures appear to show the Glazers aren’t paying off their massive debt and it’s not even clear if they’re covering all the interest.

More worryingly, the ledger seems to suggest huge repayments are due, starting in four years’ time, with bills landing on the doormat of between £75m-£150m every 12 months, followed by a massive £600m final demand in eight years."

I simply don't get why they would allow SAF to spend soo much money on players like Nai/Anderson/Berbatov when they know that are in a thight situation. Surely this will mean cut off spending for a while or is this more of an attempt to keep being succesful and hoping it will generate the money needed?

Well they know they have to bring in some players in order to be successful or else they might not win anything and then they struggle to pay off their debt. Plus they have shown by not buying Tevez they do ave some probs in terms of spending big money willy nilly. I dont expect them to suddenly stop spending but what they are in is a vicious cirle of debt, all reasons why FC United were created and have so many fans.