Barcelona vs. Chelsea CL SF discussion thread

kas wrote:I thought you would continue yesterday's theme by saying it was a blatant case of shoplifting. And that Essien's goal was right off the top shelf

I should have

On a rather sour note, saw some guys outside the pub last night and they were asking people as they left whether they were Barca fans? I said 'no' and they said 'good lad' but I bet you if someone had said yes they'd have beaten the shit out of them. They looked proper nasty as well

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Chelsea had a lot of chances. On any other day, Drogba, Anelka and Malouda would have all scored to win 3-0 or 4-0. Valdes made a decent save, but I think poor finishing by Chelsea strikers came back to haunt them. Without forgetting Drogba's 1-on-1 in Nou camp.

But forgetting all of Barca's chances?

Also don't get this criticism of Messi? What were people expecting him to do, slalom though the entire Chelsea defence and score?

By far the biggest culprit was Alves. He had time and space (a luxury most other Barca players didn't have) to pick out a good cross 6 or 7 times and failed miserably. When he finally put a decent one in Barca score.

Also they had something like 14 shots on goal and only hit the target once. How shit is that.

Anyukov >>> Alves

And Xavi is like a substandard Alonso.

Chelsea fans are no Romanistas. They should learn to stab.

The Barca fans have been praising Alves though this season. I just think that certain players' styles don't suit playing against Chelsea. Alves DID put in some really shit crosses mind, but in the first leg he put in some half decent ones

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Chelsea fans are no Romanistas. They should learn to stab.

Actually the Roma weapon of choice is a baseball bat covered in barbed wire. Get it right

I don't want to ever hear Kas commenting on Lennon's crossing/End product after what Alves produced last night.

As for Messi, he showed himself up to be quite one dimensional right now.

Ronaldinho he ain't.

Tweedle wrote:The Barca fans have been praising Alves though this season. I just think that certain players' styles don't suit playing against Chelsea. Alves DID put in some really shit crosses mind, but in the first leg he put in some half decent ones

Shaz was criticising Alves' EP after the 1st leg too.

It wasn't the fact they were shit so much as the fact he was trying to cross to midgets against giants! Its just completely the wrong thing to try against Chelsea.

Khadrim wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Chelsea had a lot of chances. On any other day, Drogba, Anelka and Malouda would have all scored to win 3-0 or 4-0. Valdes made a decent save, but I think poor finishing by Chelsea strikers came back to haunt them. Without forgetting Drogba's 1-on-1 in Nou camp.

But forgetting all of Barca's chances?

Nah. They didn't threaten Chelsea over two legs. the only time they ever looked close to scoring, was the Iniesta goal. Chelsae had clear-cut chances, cowardly their playing style might be.

I told some friends if Chelsea won, I wouldn't even bother watching the final. Simply because two English teams again, and the exact teams once more wouldn't even be a bit chinteresting! They've played eachother at least twice this year, so no air left in that balloon.

The best part with the CL is that teams from all over Europe meet and play, and that there's a competition between countries, now it's Spain vs. England, which is super chinteresting, at least compared to London vs. Manchester. This is from a kinda neutral view.

And without the drama in the game last night, football wouldn't be football.

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:

Khadrim wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Chelsea had a lot of chances. On any other day, Drogba, Anelka and Malouda would have all scored to win 3-0 or 4-0. Valdes made a decent save, but I think poor finishing by Chelsea strikers came back to haunt them. Without forgetting Drogba's 1-on-1 in Nou camp.

But forgetting all of Barca's chances?

Nah. They didn't threaten Chelsea over two legs. the only time they ever looked close to scoring, was the Iniesta goal. Chelsae had clear-cut chances, cowardly their playing style might be.

]

Bojan header first leg?

Keita having the chance to control and shoot but going for a bizarre hook shot?

That's not as clear as Drogba's chances, but it was fairly "close".

Tweedle wrote:It wasn't the fact they were shit so much as the fact he was trying to cross to midgets against giants! Its just completely the wrong thing to try against Chelsea.

I was defending him based on this criteria up until around halfway through yesterday's match. But it got inexcusable after that. Even his setpieces were terrible.


@TS: yeah, because a fullback has an off night and can't put in good crosses in 1 match, I shouldn't criticise an attacking winger who can't even make a good pass along the ground (something Alves can do well even on bad days) let alone a cross?

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:

Khadrim wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Chelsea had a lot of chances. On any other day, Drogba, Anelka and Malouda would have all scored to win 3-0 or 4-0. Valdes made a decent save, but I think poor finishing by Chelsea strikers came back to haunt them. Without forgetting Drogba's 1-on-1 in Nou camp.

But forgetting all of Barca's chances?

Nah. They didn't threaten Chelsea over two legs. the only time they ever looked close to scoring, was the Iniesta goal. Chelsae had clear-cut chances, cowardly their playing style might be.

Eto'o, Alves, Hleb and Bojan all had very good chances in the first leg.

kas wrote:

Tweedle wrote:It wasn't the fact they were shit so much as the fact he was trying to cross to midgets against giants! Its just completely the wrong thing to try against Chelsea.

I was defending him based on this criteria up until around halfway through yesterday's match. But it got inexcusable after that. Even his setpieces were terrible.


@TS: yeah, because a fullback has an off night and can't put in good crosses in 1 match, I shouldn't criticise an attacking winger who can't even make a good pass along the ground (something Alves can do well even on bad days) let alone a cross?

Otto-esque spinning there Kas

Everyone knows Alves is one of the most offensive FB's in the world, and he produced nothing tangible last night, from open play or dead balls. Even his cross which led to the goal was over-hit, Eto'o had to track it down and then Essien made his error.

kas wrote:

Tweedle wrote:It wasn't the fact they were shit so much as the fact he was trying to cross to midgets against giants! Its just completely the wrong thing to try against Chelsea.

I was defending him based on this criteria up until around halfway through yesterday's match. But it got inexcusable after that. Even his setpieces were terrible.


@TS: yeah, because a fullback has an off night and can't put in good crosses in 1 match, I shouldn't criticise an attacking winger who can't even make a good pass along the ground (something Alves can do well even on bad days) let alone a cross?

You've got a point Kas, however Lennon's end product this season has been pretty good, and is continually improving.

That is for another day.

Agree with that floozy Riviera: European final needs to be a European affair, not the 39th EPL game of the season

I was passing through Fulham Broadway prior to the game, and there were loads of Barca fans singing - all I could make out was the word "Madrid", so I assume they were nice friendly songs about their much loved Spanish rivals

Tweedle wrote:

kas wrote:I thought you would continue yesterday's theme by saying it was a blatant case of shoplifting. And that Essien's goal was right off the top shelf

I should have

On a rather sour note, saw some guys outside the pub last night and they were asking people as they left whether they were Barca fans? I said 'no' and they said 'good lad' but I bet you if someone had said yes they'd have beaten the shit out of them. They looked proper nasty as well

Sounds like Chelsea fans. I left the pub straight after the match, since the atmosphere was getting a bit tense let's say.

The Tupac Twitch wrote:

kas wrote:

Tweedle wrote:It wasn't the fact they were shit so much as the fact he was trying to cross to midgets against giants! Its just completely the wrong thing to try against Chelsea.

I was defending him based on this criteria up until around halfway through yesterday's match. But it got inexcusable after that. Even his setpieces were terrible.


@TS: yeah, because a fullback has an off night and can't put in good crosses in 1 match, I shouldn't criticise an attacking winger who can't even make a good pass along the ground (something Alves can do well even on bad days) let alone a cross?

You've got a point Kas, however Lennon's end product this season has been pretty good, and is continually improving.

That is for another day.

Agree with that floozy Riviera: European final needs to be a European affair, not the 39th EPL game of the season

I was passing through Fulham Broadway prior to the game, and there were loads of Barca fans singing - all I could make out was the word "Madrid", so I assume they were nice friendly songs about their much loved Spanish rivals

Probably "Madrid, cabron, salud la campeon"

Translated: Madrid, bastards, salute the champions.

A chant invented by Etoo



On the Lennon issue, @TS as well...fine, let's take away the semantics of either player's position. I agree with the rest of your post though, Alves was just poor last night. And Lennon may well improve his game over time...till then, I think those of who criticise this aspect of his game are rightful in doing so, just like people will continue criticising Messi till he adapts his game to making an impact when stronger/equally fast players doing double marking won't let him run too far.

Khadrim wrote:
Also don't get this criticism of Messi? What were people expecting him to do, slalom though the entire Chelsea defence and score?

Same as the criticism of Ronaldo - people accept that players can have poor games, but when they've been listening to the press and fans hype a player for months on end they (quite rightly) expect him to show up on the big stage. When he doesn't (again, and again), people criticise him for failing to live up to the reputation put out by his fans.

I only watched the first leg but I saw little to no improvement on the player who was anonymous against Man U in last year's semi. The referee and Essien's sportmanship have given him another chance to impress. If he fails again the criticism will become a crescendo.

They're getting better

But the thing is, Messi does show up on all the other big stages - Olympic gold with Argentina, that wonder goal against Mexico in the Copa America (ok he was poor in the final but so was the entire Argentina side), multiple Clasicos for Barça, other CL knockout games, big league games, saving our ass when Mallorca were looking like being able to knock us out of the Copa this year, etc.

It's only against the English teams that he seems to struggle, as they smother him with not just good defensive organisation, which other teams do, but also have the pace and strength on top of that to negate his own pace, which he can otherwise use in other games to beat tight marking. And the good organisation also means he can't bring others into play, considering he's not as good a passer as Xavi or even Iniesta anyway.

So to generically say "he's shit in big games" is wrong IMO.

kas wrote:But the thing is, Messi does show up on all the other big stages - Olympic gold with Argentina, that wonder goal against Mexico in the Copa America (ok he was poor in the final but so was the entire Argentina side), multiple Clasicos for Barça, other CL knockout games, big league games, saving our ass when Mallorca were looking like being able to knock us out of the Copa this year, etc.

It's only against the English teams that he seems to struggle, as they smother him with not just good defensive organisation, which other teams do, but also have the pace and strength on top of that to negate his own pace, which he can otherwise use in other games to beat tight marking. And the good organisation also means he can't bring others into play, considering he's not as good a passer as Xavi or even Iniesta anyway.

So to generically say "he's shit in big games" is wrong IMO.

But when he's compared to the great players in history this is where he falls short. You don't think they were marked heavily as well?

He is only 21. Bit early to be writing him off.

Khadrim wrote:He is only 21. Bit early to be writing him off.

& to early to compare him to these great players yet as well.

Parks lives wrote:

Khadrim wrote:He is only 21. Bit early to be writing him off.

& to early to compare him to these great players yet as well.

People say he's on course to join them, not that he's already better than them.

btw, can someone ask Phil Brown to pass on his Arsenal/Cesc complaint file please?

Drogba went onto the pitch in a tracksuit and flip flops yesterday and I think it's a disgrace. I want the club to whinge to UEFA about it.

Messi is just a rich man's Babel.

Seriously though, he needs to go outside of his man more often. Look at where the space was against Chelsea, it was Alves always in the dangerous positions. Perhaps a few times he should have gone outside and let Alves cut inside of him. But Chelsea didn't let him have the ball, it's hard to think properly about this sort of thing when you are concentrating more on actually being available for a pass. I think you can definitely let a 21 year old off in this situation.

He's left-footed so his natural inclination will always be to go inside.

kas wrote:But the thing is, Messi does show up on all the other big stages - Olympic gold with Argentina, that wonder goal against Mexico in the Copa America (ok he was poor in the final but so was the entire Argentina side), multiple Clasicos for Barça, other CL knockout games, big league games, saving our ass when Mallorca were looking like being able to knock us out of the Copa this year, etc.

It's only against the English teams that he seems to struggle, as they smother him with not just good defensive organisation, which other teams do, but also have the pace and strength on top of that to negate his own pace, which he can otherwise use in other games to beat tight marking. And the good organisation also means he can't bring others into play, considering he's not as good a passer as Xavi or even Iniesta anyway.

So to generically say "he's shit in big games" is wrong IMO.

I've never seen him perform particularly well in a big game. You're right, that doesn't mean he's shit in all the games I haven't seen.

Nonetheless, when people are saying at 21, when you've barely won a trophy, that you're guaranteed to be one of the greatest ever then people will expect you to show up even against well organised, athletic defences. Throughout the first leg he had the beating of Bosingwa on the outside every time, yet only tried to go round the outside twice in the whole match.

That's nothing to do with a lack of ability, or a well organised defence or any of that, it's about making bad decisions on the pitch over and over and over. That is Messi's fault, and he's rightly getting criticised for it.

When you've got the likes of messiah saying he's the undisputed best player in the world, it's difficult not to be critical (on here at least). Last night he was outshone by Florent Malouda FFS (though admittedly had a great game in a team that passed extremely poorly).

Iniesta, Xavi and co might not have looked particularly dangerous (all of their passing was done in front of our midfield and back 4) but the 1 thing they did do (and Malouda did for us) is that they work extremely hard to get the ball back.

Messi, for all that's good about him, doesn't do this, which may explain why Malouda had so much joy.

Olé wrote:He's left-footed so his natural inclination will always be to go inside.

There's natural inclination and then there is Messi. Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho etc were never slowed down by any natural inclination. Even Rivaldo wasn't so one-footed. He has time to sort it out though, even Owen managed to work on it.