is the EPL in free fall...............

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Inter may well be better this season, Arsenal will probably be worse.

That's some stunning logic you have there Pierre

@COTR

It seems like you missed the "it's still early days" part. A better analysis can be made once the transfer window is closed indeed, but so far, there are no signs of considerable improvement as far as the big four are concerned. The problem is that you need top class players to further improve your squads, United in particular, but instead of signing some, you have lost (and may still lose) players of such caliber. Even if you have all the money to spend, which players are actually available on the market that could further improve your squads, and I mean considerable improvement of the first XI?

Compared to the last few years, the big four have been rather cautious on the transfer market so far this summer. It is still early days, but this is a clear difference.

P.S.: Nothing is more retarded than these labels like "UEFA Cup standard". If a player hardly ever plays in the CL, how do you expect him to prove himself there?

I can't even count how often such labels have proved to be utter nonsense. There are good, mediocre and crap players. Good players tend to be good in every competition they participate, and labels on EMB have fuck all to do with that.

English teams didn't need to improve considerably. The young players in the squads should improve a lot which will make certain teams stronger despite other teams seeing them as weaker.

Everybody said the same thing when Ruud left. He wasnt a quarter as important but still history can repeat itself. When he left Ronaldo improved a lot and the team worked better as a team. Last year good results but the team didn't work as a team only defensivly.

The two most selfish players have left so it all signals to it becoming a total team once again. Owen hopefully wont play much

Anderson, Fabio, Rafael, Nani, Tosic, Evans, Macheda will all play more and should all improve a whole bunch year upon year and some have the potential to be one of the best in the world at where they play so if they can realise that potential quicker i don't think certain departures will be that bad.

That's actually my point. You already have very good squads, with or without Ronaldo, so to further improve them, you need true quality players. And therein lies the problem - there are not many left on the market. And if you don't improve constantly, you won't stay on top, because others will.

For United, the challenge this summer actually is to keep the level they had before Ronaldo left. I'm not saying that this is impossible to achieve, it isn't, but let's not forget that United had been "underperforming" in the CL for years, before they managed to reach the semis regularly, and two consecutive CL finals. So it shouldn't be taken for granted that they will continue to do so after losing an important player, and hence needing to rebuild their team to a certain degree.

L-r d wrote:English teams didn't need to improve considerably. The young players in the squads should improve a lot which will make certain teams stronger despite other teams seeing them as weaker.

Everybody said the same thing when Ruud left. He wasnt a quarter as important but still history can repeat itself. When he left Ronaldo improved a lot and the team worked better as a team. Last year good results but the team didn't work as a team only defensivly.

The two most selfish players have left so it all signals to it becoming a total team once again. Owen hopefully wont play much

Anderson, Fabio, Rafael, Nani, Tosic, Evans, Macheda will all play more and should all improve a whole bunch year upon year and some have the potential to be one of the best in the world at where they play so if they can realise that potential quicker i don't think certain departures will be that bad.

now you just sound like an Arsenal fan. If you start depending on youngsters doing the business, I'd be worried.

toon h wrote:

L-r d wrote:English teams didn't need to improve considerably. The young players in the squads should improve a lot which will make certain teams stronger despite other teams seeing them as weaker.

Everybody said the same thing when Ruud left. He wasnt a quarter as important but still history can repeat itself. When he left Ronaldo improved a lot and the team worked better as a team. Last year good results but the team didn't work as a team only defensivly.

The two most selfish players have left so it all signals to it becoming a total team once again. Owen hopefully wont play much

Anderson, Fabio, Rafael, Nani, Tosic, Evans, Macheda will all play more and should all improve a whole bunch year upon year and some have the potential to be one of the best in the world at where they play so if they can realise that potential quicker i don't think certain departures will be that bad.

now you just sound like an Arsenal fan. If you start depending on youngsters doing the business, I'd be worried.

Well Arsenal hype teenagers or players who done well in the carling cup. Some of those players cost 15 million pounds. The others have all played well in the premiership bar maybe Tosic and i guess Fabio but he's clearly a quality youngster.

It's not relying on them, the base of the side is rio vidic carrick and rooney...hardly youngsters. But if these guys improve to the level they shoudl the team will improve so you don't have to neccasirily buy big to improve year upon year.

blutgraetsche wrote:How many times has Arsenal won this competition?

Better put Ajax in there too then.

Tweedle wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:How many times has Arsenal won this competition?

Better put Ajax in there too then.

As much as I loath them, they remain a class above Arsenal Tweedle. And yes, they are more likely to win it before Arsenal do. Even with all those new money clubs of the last 15 year, clubs like Barca and Man utd still won less then them.

Tweedle wrote:
Better put Ajax in there too then.

Primarily, I actually only had the Champions League in mind, which Ajax has won also btw. If you count the European Cups, it would be even more drastic.

Arsenal are a big club, they have the money (if they'd be willing to spend it that is - their revenues as far as TV rights, ticket sales and merchandising are concerned are amongst the highest in Europe), and they have enough prestige to attract quality players. What Arsenal does not have is the 'tradition' of winning European Cups, the Champions League, in addition to the lack of continuity described above (-> selling club).

While this 'winning tradition' may not say much about the current strength of a team, it has a psychological effect that should not be underestimated. For a club like Porto, for example, it's 'natural' to make it far in the CL, and beat 'richer' sides regularly, because they have this winning tradition that gives them an 'inner strength', and ambition.

We may not have the tradition but I honestly feel, if we sign Melo, that we'll be a real force to be reckoned with next season.

Vermeulen will add leadership experience and quality. Melo, if get him will add the work rate and bit that our midfield lacked last season and of course, we wil have Arshavin - a world class player with that magical gift of being able to make things happen on the biggest stage.

To coin a Liverpoolism, this year, could be our year

Tweeds, whilst i agree with the general concensus of your post, i doubt very much that Vermeulen will bring leadership.

He is very young (for a defender) will be in his first year at Arsenal, and has much to learn.

He may very well sure up your defence, but leadership is not a quality i expect him to deliver for Arsenal at the moment.

And he is a bit rash and hot head.

He was club captain at Ajax wasn't he?

Tweedle wrote:He was club captain at Ajax wasn't he?

Straws and clutching, hes what 21?

The dutch league has never been so weak.

Has to adapt to the Premiership.

You honestly think players like Gallas and RVP have the ego to accept a 21 yr old to drive the team forward.

Come on Tweeds mate, he may very well be an excellent signing, but leadership he will not bring you next season.

You can ask the Dutch over here if you dont believe me.

Football Genius wrote:

Tweedle wrote:He was club captain at Ajax wasn't he?

Straws and clutching, hes what 21?

The dutch league has never been so weak.

Has to adapt to the Premiership.

You honestly think players like Gallas and RVP have the ego to accept a 21 yr old to drive the team forward.

Come on Tweeds mate, he may very well be an excellent signing, but leadership he will not bring you next season.

Its hardly clutching at straws

He's 23. He's not going to be club captain but he will be a talker in the defence which is exactly what we've been lacking in the last couple of seasons.

Tweeds, please you're not this stupid.

He will not be the 'talker' in defence THIS season, he's got to learn how Arsenal play, gain the respect of his team mates... etc

He may *become* this player, but not in his first season, hes got to bed in first for christ sake, and compete with huge ego's already in defence at your club.

He may very be an excellent centre back next season, but leadership is NOT a quality you'll reap next season.

Stop calling me an idiot. What I mean is that last season neither Touré nor Gallas took over the responsibility of organising the defence. Vermaelen can do that.

Regardless of this issue, Vermaelen will add depth to our defensive options which is exactly what we needed and I don't expect Vermaelen's apparent lack of leadership to affect our CL chances.

Tweeds, if you read my posts you'd realise i support you in the sense i believe your acquiring the correct players for the positions you're weak in, and have stated that i believe you next season will be strong contenders for titles.

What i questioned was your remark about his 'leadership' quality he'll bring to you next year.

Sitting next to Gallas in defence, providing they don't fall out, this could be an excellent partnership. However expect to be raped in the air by players such as Drogba, unless you try and cut the supply to these types of players.

Do you accept my point? (not suggesting he will be a bad player) simply challenged your 'leadership' remark for next season.

I don't. Many times last season we had players whose heads would drop when things weren't going our way. Clearly the Ajax manager thought that Vermeulen had the right mentality to be their club captain and therefore I expect him to at least be capable of a small support role in trying to rouse a bit of spirit when things aren't going our way on the pitch.

Tweedle wrote:I don't. Many times last season we had players whose heads would drop when things weren't going our way. Clearly the Ajax manager thought that Vermeulen had the right mentality to be their club captain and therefore I expect him to at least be capable of a small support role in trying to rouse a bit of spirit when things aren't going our way on the pitch.

He's a centre back:scratch: How is he going to bring spirit to your team when things 'aren't going your way'

He can lead by example, sure... but he will not have the respect by your players to 'order' fellow team mates about [NEXT SEASON]... maybe in the future but not in his first year.

At 23, hes still very young for a centre back... he has to prove himself before he can acquire the respect from his team mates that you expect him to 'instantly' have.

I'm not suggesting he won't be a solid player, just not a player that drives you NEXT season.

blutgraetsche wrote:How many times has Arsenal won this competition?

i think i have a point

you really can`t say they become stronger, only chelsea got the same level

and no quality players on the market (only villa,silva)

I suggest you look up "free fall".

Besides they have City in the equation too now. Alas Bayern is the only BL team remotely equipped to compete at CL level, so I'm struggling to see the point of this rather bizarrely titled thread.

2 weeks left in the transfer market, and my initial point still stands: The EPL big four have not really strengthened this summer, quite on the contrary.

Chelsea are the most likely team to win it out of them. They were close to win it for a number of seasons, have the experience, have a strong squad, and a coach with an excellent record in cup competitions.

Chelsea could do with getting their formation and personnel right first though.

Their general problem is the aging squad. But for many of their key players, this is more or less the last chance to win something big in Europe, so this is actually an additional motivation.

With this new formation they are actually easier to play against. Shitty Hull caused them numerous problems yesterday.

If they continue to play Lampard at the tip of the diamond they have no chance.

Will be very hard this year with Barca, Real, Inter, Juve and Wolfsburg all looking dangerous.