The Dream / Nightmare Scenario

72-76-80-96-08 wrote:fey

France has never been much of a threat to us in the past

even if we had titanic battles

in the end, we almost always won

for the Frenchies though, a defeat over arch-enemy Germany is still the biggest scalp

1982 and 1986 still hurt

ditto 1870, 1914-18, 1940-45

as for the German-French relationship now:

the Frogs can still be annoying

but mostly, we are friends now

WE have the Kultur and Money, THEY have the MANNERS, Fashion and SEnse of POWER

a good combo , says I

fey

STOP that "Germany run the EU and let others pay for it nonsense"

the Germans are RIDICULOUSLY low key in Europe and let others run rings around them

they always have

frankly, MERKEL should show her East German teeth now

but REFUSES to

even the left-wing ZEIT is now getting fed up with Merkel over her refusal to STAND UP for German interests

just look at how many Germans have managed to land top posts in the EU, UN, NATO, World Bank.... over the past 60 or even 10 years

NADA

NOTHING

we even gave up our beloved MARK

Fey wrote:

72-76-80-96-08 wrote:puro

there is NO nightmare scenario for Germany

in the group stage

Germany love playing France, have no problem with Mexico, African countries...

the only two countries who have our number are

Brazil and Italy

which is why I don't want to meet them before the Final

the rest tend to roll over when the Mannschaft plays

Neckermann, could you tell me

why there is ZERO rivalry between France and Germany?

Knowing the history between you two, and even in football there have been a few moments (we all remember Schumacher). This should be the best rivalry in Europe, yet it is not.

Is it because you both run the EU now and let other nations pay for it? Or is it because of Allez?

Kimbo wrote:

bluenine wrote:

Kimbo wrote:If there's one thing that the world cup teaches us every 4 years, without fail, it's that there are only 2 SA teams worth worrying about. I would happily take Chile, Paraguay, AND Uruguay in our group.

....and only 3 european sides (Italy, Germany, & France) of any substance.... but then, historic trends are only indicators, my friend, they are never 100%...

I am pretty sure that a group with 3 SA sides (if it were possible) would be a nightmare for Capello.

No, it's not the same at all. When was the last time one of "the rest" in SA made it to the quarter-finals?

bluenine wrote:Either you look at history or you don't... stop being selective about it to suit your agenda. How can you say that 8 years is relevant and 24 years is not??

Korea & Turkey have made the semi's in this decade, while teams like Argentina, Spain and Holland have not.... so what does that prove?? Nothing.

IMO pedigree shows an indicative trend, but is not an absolute "prophecy".

Allez les rouges wrote:
Neckermann?

Kimbo wrote:

Because one is alot closer. You win a world cup 8 years ago then the winning mentality is still there.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Because one is alot closer. You win a world cup 8 years ago then the winning mentality is still there.

Can't really see the logic in this Kimbo. A team would change significantly in 8 years that i'm not sure the winning mentality would still be there.

Kimbo wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Because one is alot closer. You win a world cup 8 years ago then the winning mentality is still there.

Can't really see the logic in this Kimbo. A team would change significantly in 8 years that i'm not sure the winning mentality would still be there.

It's about expectations. A recent winning country will be expected to perform, unless they fall apart like Italy have perhaps. There will be a recent standard for them to live up to.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:And according to you, Italy should favourites for the WC since the team is going to be very similar to the one which won the WC. The winning mentality is still there.

Kimbo wrote:As usual you're being contrary for the sake of it. Where did i say it wasn't about mentality? Where did i contradict myself? Expectations and a winning mentality are basically the same thing.

Ocourse, that's exactly what i meant by "unless they fall apart like Italy have".

Kimbo wrote:As usual you're being contrary for the sake of it. Where did i say it wasn't about mentality? Where did i contradict myself? Expectations and a winning mentality are basically the same thing.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:And according to you, Italy should favourites for the WC since the team is going to be very similar to the one which won the WC. The winning mentality is still there.

Ocourse, that's exactly what i meant by "unless they fall apart like Italy have".

Spider Crouch wrote:

we still beat Paraguay and Ecuador without much fuss.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Spider Crouch wrote:

we still beat Paraguay and Ecuador without much fuss.

without much fuss? 2 goals from Beckham set pieces, apart from that you struggled in both games. Not saying you didn't deserve the victories, but neither of those wins were easy for England.

It's true you have nothing to fear from Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay but then again i wouldn't be so dismissive of them either like Kimbo is.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Spider Crouch wrote:

we still beat Paraguay and Ecuador without much fuss.

without much fuss? 2 goals from Beckham set pieces, apart from that you struggled in both games. Not saying you didn't deserve the victories, but neither of those wins were easy for England.

It's true you have nothing to fear from Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay but then again i wouldn't be so dismissive of them either like Kimbo is.

Spider Crouch wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Spider Crouch wrote:

we still beat Paraguay and Ecuador without much fuss.

without much fuss? 2 goals from Beckham set pieces, apart from that you struggled in both games. Not saying you didn't deserve the victories, but neither of those wins were easy for England.

It's true you have nothing to fear from Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay but then again i wouldn't be so dismissive of them either like Kimbo is.

Neither Paraguay or Ecuador put up much in the way of resistance.

Anyway, I'm adopting Honduras as my second team, in ode to Big Wilson P. Don't imagine they'll last long, but it'll be fun whilst it lasts.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
No they're not, otherwise England would have a winning mentality.

The thing is, Italy havn't fallen apart. And according to you they still have the winning mentality...

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Spider Crouch wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Spider Crouch wrote:

we still beat Paraguay and Ecuador without much fuss.

without much fuss? 2 goals from Beckham set pieces, apart from that you struggled in both games. Not saying you didn't deserve the victories, but neither of those wins were easy for England.

It's true you have nothing to fear from Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay but then again i wouldn't be so dismissive of them either like Kimbo is.

Neither Paraguay or Ecuador put up much in the way of resistance.

Anyway, I'm adopting Honduras as my second team, in ode to Big Wilson P. Don't imagine they'll last long, but it'll be fun whilst it lasts.

I'd say they were ok in terms of "resistance", but they didn't create much against you.

Honduras have Suazo, he's quick

bluenine wrote:

Kimbo wrote:As usual you're being contrary for the sake of it. Where did i say it wasn't about mentality? Where did i contradict myself? Expectations and a winning mentality are basically the same thing.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:And according to you, Italy should favourites for the WC since the team is going to be very similar to the one which won the WC. The winning mentality is still there.

Ocourse, that's exactly what i meant by "unless they fall apart like Italy have".

Sorry dude, I am not sure what you are trying to say:

- Recent success counts for more, except in case of the most recent winner??

- Turkey have more of a winning mentality than Argentina?? Really?

- "Winning mentality" is retained over 8 years, but not longer?? So only Italy & Brasil have winning mentality, but not Italy?

You are going in circles and contradicting yrself in every post... what IS yr point?

Kimbo wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
No they're not, otherwise England would have a winning mentality.

Not at all, if England go out in the semi-finals it won't be seen as a failure. Englands expectations and hype are never serious, you talk to the average fan and 95% won't expect us to win.

The thing is, Italy havn't fallen apart. And according to you they still have the winning mentality...

Hmm, the team is performing badly, the fans aren't happy with the manager, most people think the squad is a mess, and worst of all the kit is a disaster. Things aren't exactly going smoothly.

Spider Crouch wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Spider Crouch wrote:

we still beat Paraguay and Ecuador without much fuss.

without much fuss? 2 goals from Beckham set pieces, apart from that you struggled in both games. Not saying you didn't deserve the victories, but neither of those wins were easy for England.

It's true you have nothing to fear from Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay but then again i wouldn't be so dismissive of them either like Kimbo is.

Neither Paraguay or Ecuador put up much in the way of resistance.

Anyway, I'm adopting Honduras as my second team, in ode to Big Wilson P. Don't imagine they'll last long, but it'll be fun whilst it lasts.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
Yeah right.

What was it, 10 world class players plus Rooney?

Which isn't too different from what was going on before the last WC (the kit with the sweat patches under the armpits was shit). But anyway, none of this matters because according to you, they still have the winning mentality.

Kimbo wrote:
Isn't that a Gary Lineker quote? I'm not really sure why people keep mentioning it. Although i suppose Lineker is the voice of his generation, a very influential man.

At the last world cup they had the big name players, this time people seem to be complaining about those players not being there. Anyway despite all the problems Italy can win it if we have a low quality cup like the one in Germany.

Also i've never said things like tactics, the manager, and players don't matter aslong as you have a winning mentality. Don't make things up.

Point is, alot of people expected England to win the WC in 2006. And that's not the first time.

Just because England were a low quality side doesn't mean the WC was low quality.

tactics/manager - the same manager who won the WC.

players - largely the same players who won the WC.

Plus they have the winning mentality.

According to your criteria, Italy should be overwhelming favourites, yet for some reason you're not prepared to admit it.

Kimbo wrote:

bluenine wrote:

Kimbo wrote:As usual you're being contrary for the sake of it. Where did i say it wasn't about mentality? Where did i contradict myself? Expectations and a winning mentality are basically the same thing.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:And according to you, Italy should favourites for the WC since the team is going to be very similar to the one which won the WC. The winning mentality is still there.

Ocourse, that's exactly what i meant by "unless they fall apart like Italy have".

Sorry dude, I am not sure what you are trying to say:

- Recent success counts for more, except in case of the most recent winner??

- Turkey have more of a winning mentality than Argentina?? Really?

- "Winning mentality" is retained over 8 years, but not longer?? So only Italy & Brasil have winning mentality, but not Italy?

You are going in circles and contradicting yrself in every post... what IS yr point?

Am i speaking Dutch here? I'm spelling it out as simply as possible, and i'm not contradicting myself at all. Recent success counts for more, but Italy don't seem to be capitalising on it for whatever reason, dodgy managing, dodgy players, whatever. I'm sure you'll disagree and say Italy are great and everything is going fine at the moment though.

I didn't say Turkey have more than a winning mentality than Argentina, i've no reason to think either has a winning mentality.

I've haven't put a time limit on anything either, it wasn't me that mentioned 8 years. You seem to have skimmed through without reading who has said what.

bluenine wrote:So in summary, what you are implying is that recent success counts for more, except for all the recently successful teams bar Brasil

If you don't think that Turkey have a better winning mentality than Argentina, then why are you asking about the recent performances of other SA countries? See the contradiction?

Kimbo wrote:
I don't think so tbh, i think people on here often mistake hope with expectation when it comes to England.

Patrick Barclay (The Times) wrote:

England will win the World Cup for two main reasons.

TEAMWORK

One is that finally they have a manager who understands how to produce teamwork. In previous decades the players have tended to play for themselves rather than the unit. Steve McClaren, for example, understood this, but he was unable to get the message over to people like Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard. Fabio Capello has cleverly shown these players, and others, roles in which they can operate without bumping into each other. The team have started to win competitive matches and the penny has dropped.

The other reason is the weather. In South Africa it will be cooler even than in England at the same time of year. This will suit the high-tempo game that comes naturally to English players.

I'm pretty sure i see alot of posts criticising Lippi and his selections, bemoaning the fact some players have retired from internationals etc.

I don't watch Italy so i can't comment too much on what is going wrong. They were abysmal at the confed cup and their reviews have been poor, this is what i know about Italy.


According to my criteria i would have Spain and Brazil as favourites, they've both won championships in recent history and things seem to be going well on the pitch. They seem to have the right mentality.

L r dd wrote:Pretty ignorant stuff from Bluenine on this thread(no offence)