Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

+5
Kimbo
Di Caniooooo!
Aristoskank
Pierre Littbarski
Brian2468
9 posters

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    avatar
    Brian2468


    Number of posts : 4875
    Age : 65
    Registration date : 2006-08-06

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Brian2468 Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:05 am

    One aspect Capello has brought to the England side is how they play there role in each position, the stronger discipline in this area has taken the team to a higher level of play.

    The key perhaps to England going a little farther in the WC lays in the Central midfielders role.

    I'm putting this up for debate, many things can change how Capello plays his center mids, like the strikers and wide players.

    Capello has his reasons for Heskey it allows the team to be able to play without a defensive midfielder a player thats sole job to only cover in front of defense that we do not have anyway.



    If both center mids have ball playing abilities are strong tacklers and can cover lots of ground Heskey becomes a valid player as the middle third front to back under Capello pressure play looks to be around 30 yards beating players one on one becomes extremely hard even for top players.

    Having the extra ball player in the middle pairing makes it easier to find openings faster and move control onto the front third of midfield and hold for quick release into a more decisive attack. Heskey if fit gives Capello this option

    If Capello puts one player with defensive responsibilities and one offensive in the middle it squashes the middle 50% creatively lessens the chance of players through passes and imbalances how the team can quickly get the ball to different parts of the front third. The team may end hoofing the ball up front a little to often losing to much control for the team to set up and defend.

    Both Barry and Lampard can, I feel they can be turned by the best players

    Carrick can easily play there when it top form and confident wonder when that will happen.

    Gerrard if committed could be excellent under past mangers he could not Capello may have to later on, although I think he is of great value to the side playing left midfield.

    Milner has the energy but not the experience and passing ability in that tight position yet. Then again Nobby Stiles and Alan ball were not well known before Alf Ramsey called them up for the 66 England team.
    Pierre Littbarski
    Pierre Littbarski


    Number of posts : 12424
    Age : 114
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Pierre Littbarski Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:54 pm

    Why does Downing play on the wing instead of CM ?

    His attributes suggest CM would be best.

    You could have the ability of Figo, Waddle or Barnes but you aren't going to be a top class wide-midfielder/winger in this era without pace - Downing hasn't got pace so will struggle to beat his man.

    He does have excellent ball control and great passing ability + a much better right foot than some think.

    Could make an excellent ball playing CM ok
    Aristoskank
    Aristoskank


    Number of posts : 9733
    Registration date : 2008-09-19

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Aristoskank Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:41 pm

    All aboard the Downing bandwagon.


    I could see him working well as a LM in a 4 man diamond midfield.
    avatar
    Di Caniooooo!


    Number of posts : 10829
    Age : 38
    Supports : West Ham
    Favourite Player : Paolo Di Canio, Moore, Hurst, Peters
    Registration date : 2007-03-24

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Di Caniooooo! Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:15 pm

    Parker for CM Ale
    Pierre Littbarski
    Pierre Littbarski


    Number of posts : 12424
    Age : 114
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Pierre Littbarski Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:55 pm

    Xmas Package wrote:All aboard the Downing bandwagon.


    I could see him working well as a LM in a 4 man diamond midfield.

    Nah - at the base of the diamond if we were playing one.
    Kimbo
    Kimbo


    Number of posts : 38171
    Registration date : 2006-08-06

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Kimbo Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:00 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Xmas Package wrote:All aboard the Downing bandwagon.


    I could see him working well as a LM in a 4 man diamond midfield.

    Nah - at the base of the diamond if we were playing one.

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Mcenroe_not_serious
    Pierre Littbarski
    Pierre Littbarski


    Number of posts : 12424
    Age : 114
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Pierre Littbarski Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:02 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Xmas Package wrote:All aboard the Downing bandwagon.


    I could see him working well as a LM in a 4 man diamond midfield.

    Nah - at the base of the diamond if we were playing one.

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Mcenroe_not_serious

    He isn't athletic enough to play at the side of the diamond - you want players with battling qualities there too.

    Passers play base or tip and he would be eaten by a physical DM if he played at the tip - he has a very nice passing range so at the base would be fine.
    Kimbo
    Kimbo


    Number of posts : 38171
    Registration date : 2006-08-06

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Kimbo Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:05 pm

    You should put your ideas in an email to Capello. Maybe suggest putting David James upfront to give us a bit of height and power?
    Pierre Littbarski
    Pierre Littbarski


    Number of posts : 12424
    Age : 114
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Pierre Littbarski Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:13 pm

    Kimbo wrote:You should put your ideas in an email to Capello. Maybe suggest putting David James upfront to give us a bit of height and power?

    Isn't that a bit of a stupid thing to say on a message board set up for people to give opinions on football?

    You could respond to any opinion of a footballer or what you think a line up should be with "why don't you e-mail Capello/Ferguson/Hughton etc".

    I was suggesting that a talented player who has good ball control and passes well would be good in the centre of midfield.

    It would be a lot better IMO than having a goal-scoring attacking midfielder like Lampard in there or someone as limited as Barry.
    Kimbo
    Kimbo


    Number of posts : 38171
    Registration date : 2006-08-06

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Kimbo Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:17 pm

    What you've just said is a thing stupid Pierre. What is the most important thing in any position? Positioning, and you have to play someone quite alot to know a position well enough for the top level. I seriously doubt, even in training, that anyone has thought about playing Downing in DM.
    avatar
    Brian2468


    Number of posts : 4875
    Age : 65
    Registration date : 2006-08-06

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Brian2468 Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:26 pm

    Is Downing more of a winger than a CM your right about his ability he can pass well what about his stamina and tackling. Center mids get less time to spray the ball around could he handle it.

    Martin O'Neil plays Milner now in the middle If he played Downing there Capello would would be interested.

    How is Milner playing I watched them on Saturday He seems to be strong on the ball and has lots of gas in his tank, looks a strong tackler also.


    Last edited by Brian2468 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Brian2468


    Number of posts : 4875
    Age : 65
    Registration date : 2006-08-06

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Brian2468 Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:33 pm

    The tread is more about CM players rather DM players looking at how Capello has his team set up there is no DM But your right Downing playing a Carrick role in the center but he has not experience in that position
    avatar
    Brian2468


    Number of posts : 4875
    Age : 65
    Registration date : 2006-08-06

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Brian2468 Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:40 pm

    Parker played well this weekend. He gives to many free kicks away and gets overly committed at times. Could work if you want to bruise the opposition.
    avatar
    Di Caniooooo!


    Number of posts : 10829
    Age : 38
    Supports : West Ham
    Favourite Player : Paolo Di Canio, Moore, Hurst, Peters
    Registration date : 2007-03-24

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Di Caniooooo! Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:38 am

    He's the English Gattuso Razz
    avatar
    Brian2468


    Number of posts : 4875
    Age : 65
    Registration date : 2006-08-06

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Brian2468 Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:00 am

    Spains Central midfielders maybe the best in the world look at the size of these players.

    Andres Iniesta 5'-6-1/2" 144 lbs

    Xavier Hernandez 5'7" 148 lbs

    Cesc Fabregas 5'9" 150 lbs


    Where you need the speed is in the middle in todays game. I wonder what the German midfielders really thought after the euro 2008 about these players that were half there size and twice as effective.

    England cannot match them and playing it long will be worse. Hope Carlton Cole and Heskey are fit our Midfielders are going to need big front players holding the ball up.
    fcb
    fcb


    Number of posts : 40471
    Age : 113
    Supports : FC Barcelona
    Registration date : 2006-08-11

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by fcb Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:08 am

    You're confusing speed of the player with speed of the ball. What Spain (and Barcelona) do is move the ball around very quickly...even though the distance of the actual passes may be small, it still causes the opposition to tire quickly as they run a lot chasing the ball.

    And if you always release the ball quickly, taking 1 or 2 touches at most, then there's really no need to be physically tough to hold off players...similarly, if you have the skill and agility to dribble past someone like Iniesta does, you don't need to be fast or strong to do it.
    Super Progress
    Super Progress


    Number of posts : 15429
    Age : 35
    Supports : Real Madrid + Mierda inchada en un palo
    Favourite Player : Laudrup,Cassano,Totti, Zidane,Marcelo, Pepe!,Guti, PROGRESS
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Super Progress Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:58 am

    kas wrote:You're confusing speed of the player with speed of the ball. What Spain (and Barcelona) do is move the ball around very quickly...even though the distance of the actual passes may be small, it still causes the opposition to tire quickly as they run a lot chasing the ball.

    And if you always release the ball quickly, taking 1 or 2 touches at most, then there's really no need to be physically tough to hold off players...similarly, if you have the skill and agility to dribble past someone like Iniesta does, you don't need to be fast or strong to do it.
    But if you meet a well organised defensive team then they struggle as we saw against Italy at the last Euro's where they couldn't produce anything against a weak but well organised Italy. Same with Barcelona against Chelsea.
    fcb
    fcb


    Number of posts : 40471
    Age : 113
    Supports : FC Barcelona
    Registration date : 2006-08-11

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by fcb Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:01 am

    Right...the basic template to stifle Barcelona or Spain has been established: 2 lines of 4 (or one of 4 and one of 5) very close to each other, sitting deep but only up to the edge of their own penalty box. One man always steps up to the ball, to try and show the passer sideways. Meanwhile the two lines should move sideways like a foosball table, tracking the ball and always remaining behind it. If Messi gets the ball, 2 men go on him. If Xavi gets the ball, close him down as soon as possible.

    When Barcelona eventually play the ball wide, CBs should be responsible for heading or clearing away any resulting crosses. If one of the Barça CMs attempt a through ball, the 2nd line should track any runners, and intercept/clear to build their own attack.

    Sounds simple, but very difficult to maintain for 90 minutes. If no individual mistakes are made, and your team is quick and decisive on the counter (Rubin Kazan, but not Italy), you can get a win.
    EM Seleção e Selecção
    EM Seleção e Selecção


    Number of posts : 2495
    Age : 37
    Supports : Portugal Brasil Africa
    Favourite Player : Ronaldo Zidane Dinho Figo CR Robinho Neymar Hazard
    Registration date : 2007-11-22

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by EM Seleção e Selecção Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:31 pm

    kas wrote:You're confusing speed of the player with speed of the ball. What Spain (and Barcelona) do is move the ball around very quickly...even though the distance of the actual passes may be small, it still causes the opposition to tire quickly as they run a lot chasing the ball.

    And if you always release the ball quickly, taking 1 or 2 touches at most, then there's really no need to be physically tough to hold off players...similarly, if you have the skill and agility to dribble past someone like Iniesta does, you don't need to be fast or strong to do it.
    You would make a good coach. <Ale>
    fcb
    fcb


    Number of posts : 40471
    Age : 113
    Supports : FC Barcelona
    Registration date : 2006-08-11

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by fcb Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:34 pm

    EM La Liga wrote:
    kas wrote:You're confusing speed of the player with speed of the ball. What Spain (and Barcelona) do is move the ball around very quickly...even though the distance of the actual passes may be small, it still causes the opposition to tire quickly as they run a lot chasing the ball.

    And if you always release the ball quickly, taking 1 or 2 touches at most, then there's really no need to be physically tough to hold off players...similarly, if you have the skill and agility to dribble past someone like Iniesta does, you don't need to be fast or strong to do it.
    You would make a good coach. <Ale>

    Thanks, but can't take the full credit for that...although I obviously observe all this while watching games, it's mostly just a recap of various analysis and comments (some from Cruyff's own columns) that I've read about Barcelona's style.

    But I do feel strongly about too much emphasis being placed on physical attributes in today's game, hence the 2nd paragraph in the post above.
    EM Seleção e Selecção
    EM Seleção e Selecção


    Number of posts : 2495
    Age : 37
    Supports : Portugal Brasil Africa
    Favourite Player : Ronaldo Zidane Dinho Figo CR Robinho Neymar Hazard
    Registration date : 2007-11-22

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by EM Seleção e Selecção Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:48 pm

    kas wrote:
    EM La Liga wrote:
    kas wrote:You're confusing speed of the player with speed of the ball. What Spain (and Barcelona) do is move the ball around very quickly...even though the distance of the actual passes may be small, it still causes the opposition to tire quickly as they run a lot chasing the ball.

    And if you always release the ball quickly, taking 1 or 2 touches at most, then there's really no need to be physically tough to hold off players...similarly, if you have the skill and agility to dribble past someone like Iniesta does, you don't need to be fast or strong to do it.
    You would make a good coach. <Ale>

    Thanks, but can't take the full credit for that...although I obviously observe all this while watching games, it's mostly just a recap of various analysis and comments (some from Cruyff's own columns) that I've read about Barcelona's style.

    But I do feel strongly about too much emphasis being placed on physical attributes in today's game, hence the 2nd paragraph in the post above.
    I think you nailed it when you said you observe these things whilst watching matches,that for me means you are switched on tactically and also very aware of your team's philosophy.

    Furthermore I would like to add thanks to Pep Guardiola I have re-invented myself and my chances of becoming a footballer is higher than ever because before I would go to trials and training sessions at various teams,The coaches report on me you technically good but there is always but anyways to cut a long story short I have realised when I go to these places I have to work more i.e press all the time when I don't have the ball win it back for my team quickly then when in possession of the ball I can play beautiful.
    avatar
    Brian2468


    Number of posts : 4875
    Age : 65
    Registration date : 2006-08-06

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Brian2468 Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:57 pm

    Kas was not missing any of the qualities mentioned above just the point these players size. They cover a tremendous amount of short area's in the middle better than bigger players can, they are as effective off the ball as any other midfield opposition because of this.
    In this central position size does matter with 5 midfielders in high traffic zones requires not only great ball players but speed and agility they are small super athletes also. Most of the time CM players even these are chasing down the ball.
    Super Progress
    Super Progress


    Number of posts : 15429
    Age : 35
    Supports : Real Madrid + Mierda inchada en un palo
    Favourite Player : Laudrup,Cassano,Totti, Zidane,Marcelo, Pepe!,Guti, PROGRESS
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Super Progress Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:01 pm

    kas wrote:Right...the basic template to stifle Barcelona or Spain has been established: 2 lines of 4 (or one of 4 and one of 5) very close to each other, sitting deep but only up to the edge of their own penalty box. One man always steps up to the ball, to try and show the passer sideways. Meanwhile the two lines should move sideways like a foosball table, tracking the ball and always remaining behind it. If Messi gets the ball, 2 men go on him. If Xavi gets the ball, close him down as soon as possible.

    When Barcelona eventually play the ball wide, CBs should be responsible for heading or clearing away any resulting crosses. If one of the Barça CMs attempt a through ball, the 2nd line should track any runners, and intercept/clear to build their own attack.

    Sounds simple, but very difficult to maintain for 90 minutes. If no individual mistakes are made, and your team is quick and decisive on the counter (Rubin Kazan, but not Italy), you can get a win.
    Not that hard again but the problem imo is that the gap at least in La Liga is bigger then it used to be. Teams are performing similar acts to what they used to with worse players against teams that have become better. Almeria man marked Xavi and Barcelona looked weak. Tactics wise it isn't that hard to figure out but if are a small team you can get fazed by stars/stadiums or just stiffled by the ref.

    It is not surprising that it was USA of all teams to provide such problems for Spain at the last Con Fed cup even if their are a weak team individually. Wonder if Brazil wouldn't tear Spain a new one if they had met in the final.
    christmasborocooper
    christmasborocooper


    Number of posts : 39348
    Age : 37
    Registration date : 2006-08-06

    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by christmasborocooper Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:11 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:Why does Downing play on the wing instead of CM ?

    His attributes suggest CM would be best.

    You could have the ability of Figo, Waddle or Barnes but you aren't going to be a top class wide-midfielder/winger in this era without pace - Downing hasn't got pace so will struggle to beat his man.

    He does have excellent ball control and great passing ability + a much better right foot than some think.

    Could make an excellent ball playing CM ok

    I dont think id seen this post til just now.

    I've said this for a year or so now. I totally believe that Downing is going to end up as central midfielder. His pace has dropped since he was a kid and he got some bad injuries..and he beefed up a bit too which obviously wont have helped.

    We did play him CM sometimes last season(possibly the season before too) as well as off the striker. He's got the qualities for it definitely. He is good on the ball and his passing is excellent. As ive said before, people often say Englands problem is ball retention, Downing keeps the ball for his side better than most..and he's able to pick out a good forward pass, spread the play wide and from time to time he can put one over the top of a defence.

    As well as that his shooting is underrated, he's got a great technique..nearly always hits across the keeper on an angle, low and hard..makes the keeper save it and usually parry it out.

    Plus, as you say, his right foot really is underrated. I dont know people think he cant use his right foot. He scored lots of goals with his right foot for us. He just obviously prefers to use the left so sometimes uses the outside of it.

    Sponsored content


    Three Lions - Central midfielders rule Empty Re: Three Lions - Central midfielders rule

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Nov 02, 2024 1:21 am