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    Winners and Losers

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    L r dd


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    Post by L r dd Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:02 am

    Winners

    Generosity To The Champions
    Marc Wilson's sumptuous volley past David James was the ninth own-goal scored for Manchester United this season. Only Wayne Rooney has been a more regular goalscorer for the champions.


    Manchester United
    Their four successive home fixtures against Wigan, Burnley, Hull and Portsmouth since the penultimate day of 2009 have been won by a combined score of 17-0.


    Neutrals Watching The Merseyside Derby
    The Mersey derby rarely provides entertaining football - it rarely provides football full stop - but as a full-blooded throwback it consistently provides compelling viewing.

    It has also provided more red cards than any other fixture in the Premier League - the tally now stands at 19. The question was asked on Saturday whether either Liverpool or Everton would have enough players to last a full season if they were residing in London and had to play a derby match every couple of weeks but it's precisely because they only play two league derbies a year that Everton-Liverpool tends to be such a violent fixture.


    Card Players
    If ever a case study was required to reveal the inadequacies of football's card system then Steven Pienaar's dismissal at Anfield should do the job. What was more ridiculous: The Everton midfielder being just halfway to a sending off after his horrible tackle on Javier Mascherano or the collection of the other half after an innocuous collision with Steven Gerrard?

    Referee Martin Atkinson erred with both rulings but the mitigation of officialdom is their scant room for flexibility despite the ever-rising frequency of cards being shown. With such trivial 'offences' as celebrating with the crowd and lifting a shirt now worth 50% of a dismissal, it would surely help the game's whistle blowers and reduce the amount of officialdom-related controversy if there was an increase in the number of cards that could be shown - such as a third yellow card equalling a red rather than just two, or an orange card, a la rugby, for a ten-minute sinbin.


    Liverpool
    It was, according to Steven Gerrard, "the perfect derby". Though winning with ten men always generates a particular satisfaction, Gerrard's claim of perfection would have been better applied to Liverpool's day in general. With Manchester City beaten, and Villa and Spurs at stalemate, Saturday could not have gone better for Pool. Once again, the usual gang of four are occupying their usual position in the league table.

    The corner may or may not have been turned but Liverpool are certainly back on a better track. "It was massive for us. To win in a derby is really important - to win in a derby with 10 players at Anfield is more important," purred Rafa Benitez. Saturday's victory will have generated plenty of renewed self-belief in a Liverpool side that was bereft of confidence six weeks ago, just as Saturday's victory would not have been achieved without the belief generated by their run of six matches unbeaten.


    Dirk Kuyt
    Four goals in four games for the Dutchman since his move up front.


    Brian Laws
    "It's been a long time coming," remarked the Burnley manager after victory over West Ham. Indeed it had. For Burnley, it was a first win in 13 matches. For their manager, it was his first in 14.


    Hull City
    For an explanation of Hull's surprise victory over Manchester City, look no further than Brian Horton's eloquent post-match declaration: "We got at them, didn't we?". Like the words of their assistant manager, Hull's strategy was as rudimentary as it was effective - and the four 'bonus' points they've collected this week against the moneybags of Chelsea and City have propelled them from second-bottom in the table to the respectability of 14th.


    Stoke City
    Scorers of three goals in four of their five home fixtures this year.


    Losers

    Manchester City
    How different it all might have been for so many people and so many teams if John Terry - at the reputed urging of Wayne Bridge - had joined City in the summer...

    With the exception of the injured Joleon Lescott, Roberto Mancini's side were at full-strength at Hull but it is the absence of a commanding centre-half in their squad that continues to derail what should have been a season of substantial progression. Richard Dunne's revitalisation at Villa has only rubbed salt into a wound that every opponent has spotted.

    If Mancini deserves a degree of sympathy because he is still having to pay the price of his predecessor's mistake then it shouldn't be overlooked the Italian has already lost two more games than Hughes did this season prior to his axing. The idiotic over-reaction to the wins achieved against Stoke, Wolves and Blackburn in Mancini's opening games is already a distant memory and the lack of fight his side displayed at Hull was damning. "Sometimes you need a bit more than money," was Horton's second pithy reflection on the afternoon.

    Afterwards, Mancini seemed more concerned with the abuse endured by Wayne Bridge than the "aggression" he admitted City lacked, but for the second week in a row his comments about the left-back were counter-productive. In complaining about the "disrespect" of the Hull fans, Mancini only made Bridge look weak and will have probably inspired moronic repeats. Sometimes it is better to say nothing and Mancini's revelation last Sunday - presumably made to give the impression of a unified dressing-room - that three of his players wore 'Team Bridge' t-shirts during the game against Pompey only brought the realisation that more than twice as many had not.


    Sunderland
    Just what has happened to Sunderland's season? At the end of November, Sunderland were just two points adrift of the top four. Since then, they haven't won a single game and can now be found residing just above the relegation zone. A season of consolidation has given way to disillusion and perplexion. Just why has it gone so very wrong?


    Everton
    Derby defeats have become habitual for Everton - they've won just one of the last eleven - but Saturday's will have stung. To state they ran out of ideas would be undeserved flattery: they don't deserve the implication that they had a single idea let alone more than one.

    Despite playing for most of the game with fewer men, Liverpool were comfortable and Pepe Reina a spectator. The introduction of a second striker by David Moyes was belated and pointless without the presence of a winger to serve them.


    Tottenham Hotspur
    Back-to-back draws for Spurs in two games they should have won: two points gained, four lost.

    It is, unfortunately, becoming habitual for Spurs to drop points when they really ought not to. A couple were squandered in careless fashion at Goodison Park while the home encounters with Wolves, Stoke and Hull accounted for the 'loss' of eight points.

    They've surrendered fourth place when they should be in a position of security.


    Admirers Of Aston Villa
    How Arsene Wenger must have regretted his recent assessment of Aston Villa if he managed to sit through the entirety of their draw at Spurs. There was no sign of the "quality" team that Wenger praised two weeks ago, nor their hailed "counter-attacking" threat. All that was apparent was a side clinging on to a clean-sheet whilst struggling to string a couple of passes together and failing to score for a fifth time in six games.


    Kevin Davies
    Was the Bolton's striker reputation and record his undoing when Mark Clattenburg adjudged him to be guilty of making a foul in the process of scoring a late 'winner' against Fulham? No other player in the Premier League has conceded more fouls this season than Davies - a statistic that has also been true in every one of the last five seasons with the exception of 2007/08 when Aston Villa's John Carew fouled him into second place.

    On a slightly incidental note, Davies conceded a league-record tally of 110 fouls last term but received just four cautions, an anomaly that suggests that strikers are deemed to be exempt from the 'persistent fouling' directive. Though the ratio of fouls to cautions has narrowed this season, Davies has still been permitted to make an average of eight for every booking he has received since August.


    Owen Coyle
    The wisdom of Coyle's apparent calculation that he was more likely to be a Premier League manager for 2010/11 if he dumped Burnley mid-season for Bolton remains in the balance. The January 26 victory over the Clarets is the sole win Coyle has achieved since his transfer across Lancashire and Saturday's results mean Bolton now trail Burnley in the league table by a couple of points.

    There will be no sympathy for Coyle if his calculation proves wrong and Bolton exit the league while his former employers stay on. His act of disloyalty was defended by some with the argument that he has a greater affinity for Bolton than Burnley but the fact of the matter is that in his two-year playing career at Bolton he made less than 40 league starts whereas he took charge of over a 100 league games at Turf Moor.

    His defenders are on surer ground with the argument that people are entitled to make decisions in order to further their professional career. Absolutely. That is everyone's prerogative. But it should be remembered the next time the League Managers Association deliver another gloriously-moralistic sermon on loyalty following the dismissal of one of their collective that they have remained completely mute on the rights and wrongs of Coyle's switch.


    Emile Heskey
    His last nine starts have produced one goal and six substitutions.


    Michael Owen
    Said Sir Alex Ferguson on December 13, a couple of days after Owen had scored a hat-trick in the Champions League at Wolfsburg, with regard to his World Cup hopes:

    "Some critics say he won't have played enough games but I think he has. He was brilliant in midweek and he's given himself a chance. He'll play plenty of games."

    Number of games started by Owen in the two months since that announcement: Two.


    Match Of The Day
    MoTD may be an entertainment show rather than a programme devoted to football, but just how difficult would it be for them to scroll each team's line-up for every game across the bottom of the screen?


    West Ham
    Without an away win since the opening day of the season.


    Portsmouth
    Goners. It's been fitting that the unofficial confirmation of Pompey's relegation has occurred at the same time as Leeds' collapse in league form since their FA Cup defeat of Manchester United because both clubs are paying the cost of all-but bankrupting themselves in a quest to join the elite.


    Those nothing teams got totally owned!
    debaser
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    Post by debaser Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:10 am

    Ah how they love to hate the Villa there. So very bitter they are. It is correct we ain't scoring enough at the minute, but we got 5 pts from 3 tough fixtures and haven't conceded a goal in the league this decade!

    [Spider Crouch wind-up alert] For all Spurs dominated, possession was only 53-47, we didn't play destroying tactics exactly, just have hard-working team who close down and make it difficult for the opposition, along with probably the best defence/keeper combo in the league. We play waiting for counter-attack opportunities, but didn't get the chance because Spurs played low-risk and didn't leave the space behind for Agbonlahor and co to run into (which is sensible). It was a stalemate but it takes two teams to make a stalemate - the home team kept a CM of Huddlestone and Palacios the whole match, where we have Petrov and Milner. Who's really being negative there Question Wink

    It's funny though, last 4 league games have a yawnsome aggregate score of 2-0 to Villa, but in that time we played 2 cup games with an aggregate score of 9-6!

    Now got 3 home games in the league, plus FA cup 5th rd and Carling Cup final in the next few games. Carew's back, and we got a good base to build on. After Man Utd midweek (where I wouldn't be stunned, or too disappointed, if it was another 0-0), there's a run of very winnable fixtures to get back in contention for 4th.
    Tweesus
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:04 pm

    They're bitter about everyone (bar Hodgson) on there Debbie Erm

    Its just the way F365 is.
    debaser
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    Post by debaser Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:13 pm

    Oh they particularly hate O'Neill/Villa 'cause he sued them one time. I'm not just being a WHam/Liverpool perma-victim here Smiley
    Aristoskank
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    Post by Aristoskank Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:14 pm

    Laughing
    Six
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    Post by Six Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:58 pm

    I'm pretty sure MOTD always has the line-ups before showing the highlights.. Unless he is referring to MOTD2? Can't stand Chiles so I rarely watch that.
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    Post by Isco Benny Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:46 pm

    debaser wrote:Ah how they love to hate the Villa there. So very bitter they are. It is correct we ain't scoring enough at the minute, but we got 5 pts from 3 tough fixtures and haven't conceded a goal in the league this decade!

    [Spider Crouch wind-up alert] For all Spurs dominated, possession was only 53-47, we didn't play destroying tactics exactly, just have hard-working team who close down and make it difficult for the opposition, along with probably the best defence/keeper combo in the league. We play waiting for counter-attack opportunities, but didn't get the chance because Spurs played low-risk and didn't leave the space behind for Agbonlahor and co to run into (which is sensible). It was a stalemate but it takes two teams to make a stalemate - the home team kept a CM of Huddlestone and Palacios the whole match, where we have Petrov and Milner. Who's really being negative there Question Wink

    It's funny though, last 4 league games have a yawnsome aggregate score of 2-0 to Villa, but in that time we played 2 cup games with an aggregate score of 9-6!

    Now got 3 home games in the league, plus FA cup 5th rd and Carling Cup final in the next few games. Carew's back, and we got a good base to build on. After Man Utd midweek (where I wouldn't be stunned, or too disappointed, if it was another 0-0), there's a run of very winnable fixtures to get back in contention for 4th.

    Debbie, you're a filthy pirate hooker. Go back to whore island.

    That is all Ale
    Pierre Littbarski
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:06 pm

    Can't believe that Walcott and/or Arshavin didn't make the losers section.


    I love how they think Terry would have made City tighter at the back Rolling Eyes

    Winners and Losers Shay+given
    Deluded F*ck™
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:16 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:Can't believe that Walcott and/or Arshavin didn't make the losers section.


    I love how they think Terry would have made City tighter at the back Rolling Eyes

    Winners and Losers Shay+given


    To be fair Pierre:

    http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8742_5925262,00.html

    * Arsenal should consider loaning out Theo Walcott for the entirety of next season: he needs games and there is no chance he will ever be good enough to play for a team with title ambitions until he plays a lot of games. A shock to the system might also do him the world of good: complacency and a sense of entitlement born of being taken to the World Cup at the age of 17 is the most plausible explanation for why his game has not improved one iota since 2006.

    Also Wenger should take the blame for Arshavin.
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:17 pm

    Yeah, Given is shit because he can't deal with crosses, whereas Reina is the best in the world, yet has the exact same problem. The hypocrisy of agendas. <Ale>

    Remember when you used to swear that Ben Foster was better than Given Pierre? That was funny. ok
    COTR
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    Post by COTR Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:23 pm

    Kimbo wrote:Yeah, Given is shit because he can't deal with crosses, whereas Reina is the best in the world, yet has the exact same problem. The hypocrisy of agendas. <Ale>

    Remember when you used to swear that Ben Foster was better than Given Pierre? That was funny. ok

    Given is shit because he is permanently stuck to his goal line Kimmy

    Reina is awesome because he about as good as it gets at reading play before it becomes a problem.
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:23 pm

    Ben Foster at Watford > Given.

    Foster is not a GK for a top half of EPL team though.
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:28 pm

    COTR #6 wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:Yeah, Given is shit because he can't deal with crosses, whereas Reina is the best in the world, yet has the exact same problem. The hypocrisy of agendas. <Ale>

    Remember when you used to swear that Ben Foster was better than Given Pierre? That was funny. ok

    Given is shit because he is permanently stuck to his goal line Kimmy

    Reina is awesome because he about as good as it gets at reading play before it becomes a problem.

    That's just not true though. I've watched him for 10 years Paddy, i recognize his faults but i'm not going to go along with this bandwagon of bullshit. <Ale>
    COTR
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    Post by COTR Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:30 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    COTR #6 wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:Yeah, Given is shit because he can't deal with crosses, whereas Reina is the best in the world, yet has the exact same problem. The hypocrisy of agendas. <Ale>

    Remember when you used to swear that Ben Foster was better than Given Pierre? That was funny. ok

    Given is shit because he is permanently stuck to his goal line Kimmy

    Reina is awesome because he about as good as it gets at reading play before it becomes a problem.

    That's just not true though. I've watched him for 10 years Paddy, i recognize his faults but i'm not going to go along with this bandwagon of bullshit. <Ale>

    Ohh but it is Kimmy

    See recent Man United game for definitive proof

    Compare that to Reina's goal saving challenge against Everton at the weekend

    There you have your difference
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:35 pm

    Fuck Reina, every game you people whinge about being beaten by set pieces, it's been happening for years. He's overrated just like most of the players that everyone creams themselves over on this board. Bubbly
    Deluded F*ck™
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:35 pm

    Pepe Reina: 25 games played, conceded 26, 11 Clean sheets, and saving 70% of shots on target.

    Hilarious Gomes: 18 games played, conceded 14, 8 clean sheets and saving 81% of shots on target.

    Super Shay Given: 23 games played, conceded 32, 7 clean sheets and saving 67% of shots on target.

    FACTS & STATS Ale
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    Post by Luis Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:37 pm

    Kimbo wrote:Fuck Reina, every game you people whinge about being beaten by set pieces, it's been happening for years. He's overrated just like most of the players that everyone creams themselves over on this board. Bubbly

    Over-rated my fucking arse. Reina is world class and has to be the most unlucky guy ever as the Spanish are blessed with top class keepers! Not much difference between Casillas and Pepe IMO, I'd say Reina has more passion to win though.
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    Post by Kimbo Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:38 pm

    You know what, i lost respect for this boards opinions on football after the Lennon/Solano debate. You can hype who you want and discredit who you want, i'm not going to get involved anymore. <Ale>
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    Post by Luis Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:39 pm

    You know what...I don't quite believe that!

    I think Given is quality but to say Reina is over-rated is ridiculous, he's under-rated if anything.
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    Post by L r dd Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:40 pm

    Luis wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:Fuck Reina, every game you people whinge about being beaten by set pieces, it's been happening for years. He's overrated just like most of the players that everyone creams themselves over on this board. Bubbly

    Over-rated my fucking arse. Reina is world class and has to be the most unlucky guy ever as the Spanish are blessed with top class keepers! Not much difference between Casillas and Pepe IMO, I'd say Reina has more passion to win though.

    Um WTF
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    Post by COTR Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:43 pm

    Kimbo wrote:Fuck Reina, every game you people whinge about being beaten by set pieces, it's been happening for years. He's overrated just like most of the players that everyone creams themselves over on this board. Bubbly

    He has been winning golden gloves for years Kimmy. The set piece problem is down to us having small and weak defenders. No coincidence that we have improved since the Greek monster has been in the team.

    You are free to think whatever you like about Reina. You are in the minority though, and I'd also guess you are in the minority over Given. Don't be throwing your toys out of that pram of yours because people disagree with you.
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:48 pm

    Kimbo wrote:You know what, i lost respect for this boards opinions on football after the Lennon/Solano debate. You can hype who you want and discredit who you want, i'm not going to get involved anymore. <Ale>


    who actually said Lennon was better Question
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    Post by Aristoskank Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:49 pm

    POLR tries to convince someone they are wrong by appealing to majority opinion.

    I didn't see that one coming.


    What a c**t Rolling Eyes
    Deluded F*ck™
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:52 pm

    Bubbles wrote:POLR tries to convince someone they are wrong by appealing to majority opinion.

    I didn't see that one coming.


    What a c**t Rolling Eyes


    Stop playing Devil's Advocate, cos he's actually right ths time Wink
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    Post by Aristoskank Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:59 pm

    Right or wrong, he should stand on his own feet.
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    Post by COTR Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:59 pm

    Bubbles wrote:POLR tries to convince someone they are wrong by appealing to majority opinion.

    I didn't see that one coming.


    What a c**t Rolling Eyes


    Obse.sed


    Fill in the blank Sainty.

    Or better still, entertain us all by trying to talk about football again
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    Post by Black Magic Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:01 pm

    Obese*
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    Post by Kimbo Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:02 pm

    The Santa Stalker™️ wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:You know what, i lost respect for this boards opinions on football after the Lennon/Solano debate. You can hype who you want and discredit who you want, i'm not going to get involved anymore. <Ale>


    who actually said Lennon was better Question

    No one, everyone(but me) was in agreement that Lennon now is ATLEAST as good as Nol at his peak.
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:17 pm

    Lennon is a fine player IMO and only 22

    Without wishing to Cotarise popular opinion I'd say Solano is underated in a team where other, more sexy British names would grab the plaudits.

    Comparing them is pointless, like comparing Stuart Pearce and Patrice Evra, Shearer and Dalglish, Makalele and Dunne.
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    Winners and Losers Empty Re: Winners and Losers

    Post by Isco Benny Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:36 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    The Santa Stalker™️ wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:You know what, i lost respect for this boards opinions on football after the Lennon/Solano debate. You can hype who you want and discredit who you want, i'm not going to get involved anymore. <Ale>


    who actually said Lennon was better Question

    No one, everyone(but me) was in agreement that Lennon now is ATLEAST as good as Nol at his peak.

    Yeah, but you were also convinced that N Zogbia was, and is still better, than Lennon. Your opinion is equally bunkem Ale

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    Winners and Losers Empty Re: Winners and Losers

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