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    Premier League Discussion 27/28 Feb 2010

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    Post by Khadrim Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:49 pm

    I just saw the tackle on youtube and its not that bad. Its not a lunge at all. More of a swipe. I wouldn't even call it a red card. Shawcross must be made of steel to break someones leg from that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEXJCxA1Nxg
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    Post by Romford Pele Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:20 pm

    3 leg breaks in 5 years? So upsetting Sad

    Hopefully this is a catalyst. We're not even down to the bare bones though, it's a lot worse.
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:21 pm

    Puro wrote:WOW! Shocked I just saw what happened to Ramsey. Funny how it's always the same c**t managers who knowing that they're incapable of making their teams play football, tell their players to just 'tackle hard' and commit these type of aggressions: Fat Sam, Steve Bruce, the Scottish c**t from Birmingham, now Pulis...they've got no business managing football teams. Their teams can't play for shite so they won't be missed.

    ......
    A 50-50 challenge, which wasn't worthy of a red. A smart move by Dalton(I think that's who the ref was) by removing Shawcross, getting rid of any opportunities for the Arsenal players to get some retribution .
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    Post by Aristoskank Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:24 pm

    Romford Pele wrote:We're not even down to the bare bones though, it's a lot worse.

    No, but Ramsey's shin is.


    Da dum tsshh.
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    Post by Romford Pele Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:25 pm

    Really?
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:26 pm

    Difficult wrote:
    Romford Pele wrote:We're not even down to the bare bones though, it's a lot worse.

    No, but Ramsey's shin is.


    Da dum tsshh.

    Doh lol! No Twisted Evil Evil or Very Mad Neutral scratch
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:31 pm

    Genuinely sorry for Ramsey as I reckon he's the real deal.

    Arsenal have given themselves a great chance though.
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    Post by Di Caniooooo! Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:55 pm

    Romford Pele wrote:3 leg breaks in 5 years? So upsetting Sad

    Hopefully this is a catalyst. We're not even down to the bare bones though, it's a lot worse.
    3 breaks in 5 years? Can you say the next Dyer? Razz
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    Post by Puro Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:56 pm

    That's too fucking bad for Ramsey. I don't blame Shawcross at all. I blame the fucking imbecile he's got for football coach who WITHOUT A DOUBT told the Stoke players to tackle hard, harder than usual, against the Arsenal players to "slow 'em down a bit for us'.
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    Post by Rosicky. Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:57 pm

    Di Caniooooo! wrote:
    Romford Pele wrote:3 leg breaks in 5 years? So upsetting Sad

    Hopefully this is a catalyst. We're not even down to the bare bones though, it's a lot worse.
    3 breaks in 5 years? Can you say the next Dyer? Razz

    For Arsenal, not Ramsey you tool.
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    Post by L r dd Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:00 pm

    Rosicky. wrote:
    Di Caniooooo! wrote:
    Romford Pele wrote:3 leg breaks in 5 years? So upsetting Sad

    Hopefully this is a catalyst. We're not even down to the bare bones though, it's a lot worse.
    3 breaks in 5 years? Can you say the next Dyer? Razz

    For Arsenal, not Ramsey you tool.

    lol! lol!
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    Post by Kimbo Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:05 pm

    Wenger needs to apologise to Shawcross.
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:15 pm

    Kimbo wrote:Wenger needs to apologise to Shawcross.

    Amen.

    Its a yellow card tackle at worst - you don't judge how bad a tackle is by the severity of the injury sustained by the recipient.

    It wasn't a pen either but these 2 bullshit decisions will be overshadowed by the injury.
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    Post by Puro Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:19 pm

    Kimbo wrote:Wenger needs to apologise to Shawcross.

    One wonders why Wenger did not go after the real culprit. In this case that Pulis c**t.
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    Post by Kimbo Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:27 pm

    Puro wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:Wenger needs to apologise to Shawcross.

    One wonders why Wenger did not go after the real culprit. In this case that Pulis c**t.

    I'm Pulis's biggest critic, his teams cheat and get away with it, but i fail to see what i did wrong in this instance. It wasn't a dirty foul.
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    Post by Puro Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:29 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    I'm Pulis's biggest critic, his teams cheat and get away with it, but i fail to see what i did wrong in this instance. It wasn't a dirty foul.

    No, at worst it was a yellow card, BUT WHO THE FUCK sends his players to tackle like that. It's clueless c**ts like Pulis, what's his face (the c**t from Birmingham), Fat Sam, Bruce and the like. COWARDS!
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    Post by TheCrazy58 Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:30 pm

    What Pulis (maybe purposely) does not seem to understand is that Wenger does not in any way imply that Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg. Of course he didn't. What he takes issue with is that the opposition - especially one-trick ponies like Stoke - are without doubt encouraged to be physical with us as that is the most effective (and often the only) way they can try and play us. If what happened today and with Eduardo and Diaby doesn't back it up I don't know what will.

    And for those of you arguing it was not worthy of a red card, let's see what you say when it happens to one of your players.
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:34 pm

    L r dd wrote:
    Rosicky. wrote:
    Di Caniooooo! wrote:
    Romford Pele wrote:3 leg breaks in 5 years? So upsetting Sad

    Hopefully this is a catalyst. We're not even down to the bare bones though, it's a lot worse.
    3 breaks in 5 years? Can you say the next Dyer? Razz

    For Arsenal, not Ramsey you tool.

    lol! lol!
    Premier League Discussion 27/28 Feb 2010 - Page 10 Yankee_doodle
    avatar
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    Post by L r dd Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:34 pm

    If Ramsey didn't get injured i doubt we'd be replaying that tackle and i also doubt he'd have been sent off. It was late so definite yellow possible red but not nailed on. There's been a lot worse tackles where people have came off ok. I think Ramsey was just unlucky.
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    Post by Puro Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:35 pm

    TheCrazy58 wrote:What Pulis (maybe purposely) does not seem to understand is that Wenger does not in any way imply that Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg. Of course he didn't. What he takes issue with is that the opposition - especially one-trick ponies like Stoke - are without doubt encouraged to be physical with us as that is the most effective (and often the only) way they can try and play us. If what happened today and with Eduardo and Diaby doesn't back it up I don't know what will.

    And for those of you arguing it was not worthy of a red card, let's see what you say when it happens to one of your players.

    I don't blame Shawcross at all. Sure it was an UNNECESSARY 'tackle', BUT I'm convinced he was following orders from that c**t Pulis. Shawcross's slide was vicious, but not with malice.

    The one with absolute malice was the one that Eduardo took from that talentless hoofer (what's that c**t's name? that sad excuse for a football player, what the fuck was his name? scratch

    Anyhow, that's my take. Shawcross's wasn't pre-meditated to break Ramsey. The one on Eduardo WAS AS PRE-MEDITATED as they come.
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    Post by Kimbo Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:38 pm

    TheCrazy58 wrote:What Pulis (maybe purposely) does not seem to understand is that Wenger does not in any way imply that Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg. Of course he didn't. What he takes issue with is that the opposition - especially one-trick ponies like Stoke - are without doubt encouraged to be physical with us as that is the most effective (and often the only) way they can try and play us. If what happened today and with Eduardo and Diaby doesn't back it up I don't know what will.

    And for those of you arguing it was not worthy of a red card, let's see what you say when it happens to one of your players.

    Because this only ever happens to Arsenal?
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    Post by L r dd Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:39 pm

    Puro wrote:
    TheCrazy58 wrote:What Pulis (maybe purposely) does not seem to understand is that Wenger does not in any way imply that Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg. Of course he didn't. What he takes issue with is that the opposition - especially one-trick ponies like Stoke - are without doubt encouraged to be physical with us as that is the most effective (and often the only) way they can try and play us. If what happened today and with Eduardo and Diaby doesn't back it up I don't know what will.

    And for those of you arguing it was not worthy of a red card, let's see what you say when it happens to one of your players.

    I don't blame Shawcross at all. Sure it was an UNNECESSARY 'tackle', BUT I'm convinced he was following orders from that c**t Pulis. Shawcross's slide was vicious, but not with malice.

    The one with absolute malice was the one that Eduardo took from that talentless hoofer (what's that c**t's name? that sad excuse for a football player, what the fuck was his name? scratch

    Anyhow, that's my take. Shawcross's wasn't pre-meditated to break Ramsey. The one on Eduardo WAS AS PRE-MEDITATED as they come.

    Agreed Taylor went in to do him. Shawcross reaction showed it's totally not who he is. He's a committed footballer not a thuggish c**t.
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:41 pm

    TheCrazy58 wrote:What Pulis (maybe purposely) does not seem to understand is that Wenger does not in any way imply that Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg. Of course he didn't. What he takes issue with is that the opposition - especially one-trick ponies like Stoke - are without doubt encouraged to be physical with us as that is the most effective (and often the only) way they can try and play us. If what happened today and with Eduardo and Diaby doesn't back it up I don't know what will.

    And for those of you arguing it was not worthy of a red card, let's see what you say when it happens to one of your players.

    You can't let emotion take control, i've seen 4 leg breaks in my 12 years of footy, 2 of them by one lad. I remember feeling guility because I took my goal kick to Azza, he went by two players dinked it past the keeper then he got taken out. I remember feeling aboustle rage and all our squad instantly wanted to hurt him, their manager took him off because he was worried. This was at U15 football. Even though the GK couldn't of stopped himself from taking azza out I still wanted him sent off. But now I think back to it, probs only a yellow at the worst.

    The Shawcross challenge was a lunge but it was a 50-50 if the injury didn't happen it would of been a yellow. MOTD showed his foot as well went into the challenge. I'm sure many people have seen dirtier fouls committed and no injury/red card given.
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    Post by Puro Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:42 pm

    L r dd wrote:
    Agreed Taylor went in to do him. Shawcross reaction showed it's totally not who he is. He's a committed footballer not a thuggish c**t.

    Yeah, Taylor. What a c**t. Shawcross is disappointed for listening to the c**t manager he has.
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    Post by TheCrazy58 Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:43 pm

    Puro wrote:
    TheCrazy58 wrote:What Pulis (maybe purposely) does not seem to understand is that Wenger does not in any way imply that Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg. Of course he didn't. What he takes issue with is that the opposition - especially one-trick ponies like Stoke - are without doubt encouraged to be physical with us as that is the most effective (and often the only) way they can try and play us. If what happened today and with Eduardo and Diaby doesn't back it up I don't know what will.

    And for those of you arguing it was not worthy of a red card, let's see what you say when it happens to one of your players.

    I don't blame Shawcross at all. Sure it was an UNNECESSARY 'tackle', BUT I'm convinced he was following orders from that c**t Pulis. Shawcross's slide was vicious, but not with malice.

    The one with absolute malice was the one that Eduardo took from that talentless hoofer (what's that c**t's name? that sad excuse for a football player, what the fuck was his name? scratch

    Anyhow, that's my take. Shawcross's wasn't pre-meditated to break Ramsey. The one on Eduardo WAS AS PRE-MEDITATED as they come.

    Martin Taylor.

    Players have to be aware that every time they make a challenge they are running the risk of hurting their opponents and/or themselves. I've never had any formal football training but surely you're taught that at the outset?

    I have to say Shawcross' call up to Enland looks rather ill-adviced. I doubt Shawcross himself would want to play so soon after what happened.
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:44 pm

    The Easter Bunny wrote:
    TheCrazy58 wrote:What Pulis (maybe purposely) does not seem to understand is that Wenger does not in any way imply that Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg. Of course he didn't. What he takes issue with is that the opposition - especially one-trick ponies like Stoke - are without doubt encouraged to be physical with us as that is the most effective (and often the only) way they can try and play us. If what happened today and with Eduardo and Diaby doesn't back it up I don't know what will.

    And for those of you arguing it was not worthy of a red card, let's see what you say when it happens to one of your players.

    You can't let emotion take control, i've seen 4 leg breaks in my 12 years of footy, 2 of them by one lad. I remember feeling guility because I took my goal kick to Azza, he went by two players dinked it past the keeper then he got taken out. I remember feeling aboustle rage and all our squad instantly wanted to hurt him, their manager took him off because he was worried. This was at U15 football. Even though the GK couldn't of stopped himself from taking azza out I still wanted him sent off. But now I think back to it, probs only a yellow at the worst.

    The Shawcross challenge was a lunge but it was a 50-50 if the injury didn't happen it would of been a yellow. MOTD showed his foot as well went into the challenge. I'm sure many people have seen dirtier fouls committed and no injury/red card given.

    Premier League Discussion 27/28 Feb 2010 - Page 10 Gallastackle

    amen to that Ale
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    Post by The Pröfessör Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:51 pm

    TheCrazy58 wrote:What Pulis (maybe purposely) does not seem to understand is that Wenger does not in any way imply that Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg. Of course he didn't. What he takes issue with is that the opposition - especially one-trick ponies like Stoke - are without doubt encouraged to be physical with us as that is the most effective (and often the only) way they can try and play us. If what happened today and with Eduardo and Diaby doesn't back it up I don't know what will.

    And for those of you arguing it was not worthy of a red card, let's see what you say when it happens to one of your players.

    ok

    And Shawcross has a history of being a reckless tackler.

    He injured Adebayor last season through one of his late tackles, he was not going to get the ball but he just followed through, went through in a similar fashion against Cesc few weeks ago in the FA cup but Cesc was lucky to escape.
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    Post by TheCrazy58 Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:08 am

    The Easter Bunny wrote:
    TheCrazy58 wrote:What Pulis (maybe purposely) does not seem to understand is that Wenger does not in any way imply that Shawcross deliberately broke Ramsey's leg. Of course he didn't. What he takes issue with is that the opposition - especially one-trick ponies like Stoke - are without doubt encouraged to be physical with us as that is the most effective (and often the only) way they can try and play us. If what happened today and with Eduardo and Diaby doesn't back it up I don't know what will.

    And for those of you arguing it was not worthy of a red card, let's see what you say when it happens to one of your players.

    You can't let emotion take control, i've seen 4 leg breaks in my 12 years of footy, 2 of them by one lad. I remember feeling guility because I took my goal kick to Azza, he went by two players dinked it past the keeper then he got taken out. I remember feeling aboustle rage and all our squad instantly wanted to hurt him, their manager took him off because he was worried. This was at U15 football. Even though the GK couldn't of stopped himself from taking azza out I still wanted him sent off. But now I think back to it, probs only a yellow at the worst.

    The Shawcross challenge was a lunge but it was a 50-50 if the injury didn't happen it would of been a yellow. MOTD showed his foot as well went into the challenge. I'm sure many people have seen dirtier fouls committed and no injury/red card given.

    I'm not being emotional, merely posing my scepticism as to whether other clubs' fans would accept the same view if it happened to one of their players. Erm
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    Post by fcb Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:45 am

    The Professor wrote:But i don't blame them for the Ramsey injury, i put the blame entirely on the English press. For years the've been preaching to everyone the best way to play against Arsenal is to kick us off the park. We are a bunch of softies they say. Even 5 year old kids know this by now. It's no coincidence that 3 of our players( Diaby, Eduardo and now Ramsey) have suffered career threatning injuries because of reckless tackles.

    Well done to them, their messsage has been well received.


    I agree that it's quite disturbing that these ideas of "get stuck in" and "let 'im 'ave it" are so ingrained and wrongly over-appreciated in English football culture, but to blame the media completely is wrong. I don't think it's just the media that convinces a large number of Premiership managers what the most effective way of stopping Arsenal is.

    Anyone can figure it out for themselves based on past results of small shit teams against Arsenal, where they are content to do anything but play football just so they can live to fight another day in the Premier League money race.

    Note that Arsenal deserve part of the blame too...if Wenger had devised a way to win against this kind of outright physical play and not just moaned all the time they lose to it, then perhaps you wouldn't be complaining about this now.

    Anyway, as others have said, this particular incident was pure bad luck for Ramsey. There was nothing malicious in Shawcross' tackle. The only possible way you could blame him or Stoke for this is if you apply a similar logic as muscle injuries: by kicking a player 9 times, he'll probably have bruising, fatigue, and lessened body resistance...you inevitably tire over 90 mins and your body will not withstand blows as well as if it was the first 15 mins. So the 10th time it results in an injury.

    But even then, I don't think that's the case here because the game wasn't particularly dirty.


    ----------


    On another note, the eventual result should serve as a wake up call to Wenger about the value of experience. 2 years ago the Arsenal players experienced this situation with Eduardo, didn't know how to react, and their whole season was destroyed. Now it happened again, but they remembered the outcome last time and were determined not to let it happen again...and the result is different, probably in terms of the rest of the season too.

    Imagine if he had midfielders who knew how to control the ball when you have a narrow lead....

    Imagine if he had an experienced goalkeeper that could communicate with his defense and prevent stupid mistakes in big games...
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    Post by Aristoskank Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:37 am

    kas wrote:I agree that it's quite disturbing that these ideas of "get stuck in" and "let 'im 'ave it" are so ingrained and wrongly over-appreciated in English football culture, but to blame the media completely is wrong. I don't think it's just the media that convinces a large number of Premiership managers what the most effective way of stopping Arsenal is.

    If you're taking on a team with far more money than you, considerably better players than you and a more technical style than you, what, as a manager, can you do about it?

    You can't suddenly buy £100 million worth of players to 'level the playing field'.

    You can't make the players you have suddenly become better.

    So, you try to win the game mentally. You tell your players to challenge for every ball, be quick in the tackle and try to outmuscle the opposition.

    This isn't just the case vs. Arsenal, or just the case in English football. It is true everywhere in football, though perhaps more obvious in England because of the pace of the game.

    So, rather than once again use this as an excuse to disparage English football in an unrealistic, prejudiced and blinkered fashion, we could just say that if you pitch a technically poor but physically strong side against a technically good, quick passing side then chances are that one of the smaller, more technical players is going to get injured. That's true whether it happens in England or Spain or anywhere else. It is just how football is.

    All the rest is just Arsenal supporters moaning and a lot of bullshit.

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