+16
Ricardo Jol
S4P
bluenine
Romford Pele
DeLux
TheCrazy58
Kroos
King Modric
blutgraetsche
abundance
BoBo Vieri 32
Super Progress
Barrilete
DD
fcb
Jaime
20 posters
Who was the bigger waste of 65m euro?
Poll
WHO WAS WORSE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
- [ 12 ]
- [36%]
- [ 21 ]
- [64%]
Total Votes: 33
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
Age : 46
Supports : Real Madrid CF
Favourite Player : Butragueño, Redondo, Raúl, Guti, Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Isco, Carvajal
Registration date : 2006-08-08
Of course we all know that Zlatan actually cost 90m euro but for the sake of arguement: who was worse this year - Kaka or Ibrahimovic? Both have been pretty sh!t to be fair, in spite of having decent statistics. Zlatan doesn't seem to try, Kaka's tries to do too much. Kaka missed a lot of games through injury, Zlatan missed a lot of games that he played in. Hmmmmmm.....
fcb- Number of posts : 40471
Age : 113
Supports : FC Barcelona
Registration date : 2006-08-11
I vote Kaka of course. At least Zlatan scored a reasonable number of goals (that won games), which is his job. Even if they were mostly against midtable teams, as his reputation indicated before he signed.
Great Zlatan moment from this season, which makes most of the 65m worth it:
Great Zlatan moment from this season, which makes most of the 65m worth it:
DD- Number of posts : 10721
Age : 44
Supports : NEC
Registration date : 2006-08-07
As mediocre as Zlatan has been in Barca's line-up and for the greater part of the season, Kaka has been grossly underwhelming and complete dissapointment.
Not quite Shevshenko-esque but give it a few seasons and these two might come close in sheer money spent to dissapointment ratio.
Not quite Shevshenko-esque but give it a few seasons and these two might come close in sheer money spent to dissapointment ratio.
Barrilete- Number of posts : 2336
Age : 38
Supports : Club Atlético Boca Juniors
Favourite Player : Maxi Lopez, aka, TWD (The White Drogba)
Registration date : 2006-08-07
Even if Kaka had the worst performance of the two during this campaign, Kaka is still much better value for money...
Zlatan is a c**t, a choking c**t.
and to think they let Eto'o go for him....
Zlatan is a c**t, a choking c**t.
and to think they let Eto'o go for him....
Super Progress- Number of posts : 15429
Age : 35
Supports : Real Madrid + Mierda inchada en un palo
Favourite Player : Laudrup,Cassano,Totti, Zidane,Marcelo, Pepe!,Guti, PROGRESS
Registration date : 2006-08-07
Until this month and the Inter matches I would have said Ibrahimovic has been better.
Kaka: Been injuried a lot and this is always a bad thing for me. That is why I don't consider Robben a succes because he missed too many games.
Like Ibrahimovic he had a good start doing all the right things and then suddenly it didn't quite work. He can't complain about the system too much either. Rather it has partially been a problem with midfielders and since we have rarely had more then one creative player in midfield he has to come too deep at times. Will be interesting to see how he plays now with Guti+Alonso in midfield. However none of this explains why he has failed even at the basics at times. Even when he had space he hasn't quite looked right and I have no explaination for it. Now he is finally back and he got a very important goal and looked a bit like his old self but we will see on Sunday if it was an one off.
Ibrahimovic: I think Pep got it really wrong on this one. Ibrahimovic simply doesn't fit in Barcelona's style. Initally I thought that perhaps they would change to a 4-4-2 but that didn't really happen either. In this sense it isn't so surprising and several of us on here predicted he would struggle. However I didn't expect him to struggle in the manner he has done. I figured he would still be very creative for them and in general connect well but that hasn't really happened. He had a great start getting goals at first without performing and I thought perhaps it would come later but it never did and instead the goals dried up. If Villa is bought I wonder what will happen unless they intend to use Villa on the left.
Verdict: If the question is who has been better I struggle because he even if Ibra did get some goals early on his performance level has been very low and the whole stat on him running less then Valdes is incredible. How in terms of who was the bigger waste I think it was Ibrahimovic. Like I said you could have seen it coming and the only and one who didn't was Guardiola for some reason. Kaka made it sense but hasn't worked out. If a Real Madrid fan and a Barcelona went back last summer and had the chance to cancel these transfers I think Ibrahimovic would have been the more obvious.
Kaka: Been injuried a lot and this is always a bad thing for me. That is why I don't consider Robben a succes because he missed too many games.
Like Ibrahimovic he had a good start doing all the right things and then suddenly it didn't quite work. He can't complain about the system too much either. Rather it has partially been a problem with midfielders and since we have rarely had more then one creative player in midfield he has to come too deep at times. Will be interesting to see how he plays now with Guti+Alonso in midfield. However none of this explains why he has failed even at the basics at times. Even when he had space he hasn't quite looked right and I have no explaination for it. Now he is finally back and he got a very important goal and looked a bit like his old self but we will see on Sunday if it was an one off.
Ibrahimovic: I think Pep got it really wrong on this one. Ibrahimovic simply doesn't fit in Barcelona's style. Initally I thought that perhaps they would change to a 4-4-2 but that didn't really happen either. In this sense it isn't so surprising and several of us on here predicted he would struggle. However I didn't expect him to struggle in the manner he has done. I figured he would still be very creative for them and in general connect well but that hasn't really happened. He had a great start getting goals at first without performing and I thought perhaps it would come later but it never did and instead the goals dried up. If Villa is bought I wonder what will happen unless they intend to use Villa on the left.
Verdict: If the question is who has been better I struggle because he even if Ibra did get some goals early on his performance level has been very low and the whole stat on him running less then Valdes is incredible. How in terms of who was the bigger waste I think it was Ibrahimovic. Like I said you could have seen it coming and the only and one who didn't was Guardiola for some reason. Kaka made it sense but hasn't worked out. If a Real Madrid fan and a Barcelona went back last summer and had the chance to cancel these transfers I think Ibrahimovic would have been the more obvious.
fcb- Number of posts : 40471
Age : 113
Supports : FC Barcelona
Registration date : 2006-08-11
For me the interesting question is: would Perez have signed Kaka if he realised there was a pre-agreement with Ronaldo and a big penalty for Madrid if they didn't sign him
Also, there's still a question mark about Kaka's general level of fitness from a long term perspective. He hasn't ever looked 100% sharp since 2007. Is his career only downhill from here? At least Ibrahimovic still looks like he has some years left in him.
Also, there's still a question mark about Kaka's general level of fitness from a long term perspective. He hasn't ever looked 100% sharp since 2007. Is his career only downhill from here? At least Ibrahimovic still looks like he has some years left in him.
BoBo Vieri 32- Number of posts : 10187
Age : 38
Supports : Whichever Serie A team is doing best in the Champions League/Port Vale
Favourite Player : Andy Townsend, Robbie Earle
Registration date : 2006-08-13
I think Ibra because he doesn't fit into the system and it would be hard for Barca to change their system to suit him given that they base alot of their game around Messi. Kaka on the other hand might still come good.
Super Progress- Number of posts : 15429
Age : 35
Supports : Real Madrid + Mierda inchada en un palo
Favourite Player : Laudrup,Cassano,Totti, Zidane,Marcelo, Pepe!,Guti, PROGRESS
Registration date : 2006-08-07
That is a good point. Ibramovich can certainly go on at current level for a long time if he continues at the same pace.kas wrote:For me the interesting question is: would Perez have signed Kaka if he realised there was a pre-agreement with Ronaldo and a big penalty for Madrid if they didn't sign him
Also, there's still a question mark about Kaka's general level of fitness from a long term perspective. He hasn't ever looked 100% sharp since 2007. Is his career only downhill from here? At least Ibrahimovic still looks like he has some years left in him.
The worry I had was that Kaka had lost some of his pace but that wasn't the case either but true he has missed too many games.
You already know the answer to the first question. I think Perez is really annoyed that Ronaldo has succeded while his transfer(Kaka) hasn't. It would have been seen as Calderon's signing and not Perez's so I think he would perhaps still have done it. I remember somebody from the club revealed that a precontract did exist with Man Utd but Perez was trying to get out of it or at least get it lowered considerably but obviously it was watertight which is why Calderon was so smugg and confident about Ronaldo joining.
abundance- Number of posts : 1514
Age : 45
Supports : FC Inter
Registration date : 2007-01-29
Kakà's issue is pubalgia, isn't it?
Pubalgia is debilitating but not deteriorating - if you heal, you're as good as you never suffered from it; if you don't, good luck with it, you'll be half-service forever.
Thing is, finding the correct therapy for pubalgia and predicting the outcome is one of the most difficult tasks for sport doctors.
Pubalgia is debilitating but not deteriorating - if you heal, you're as good as you never suffered from it; if you don't, good luck with it, you'll be half-service forever.
Thing is, finding the correct therapy for pubalgia and predicting the outcome is one of the most difficult tasks for sport doctors.
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
Age : 46
Supports : Real Madrid CF
Favourite Player : Butragueño, Redondo, Raúl, Guti, Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Isco, Carvajal
Registration date : 2006-08-08
I heard a rumour that pubalgia could be chronic; but then according to Kaka it seems like what you say, when it is healed it is healed.
I have to say it's funny to see that Kaka has more assists than WPOTY Banega.
I have to say it's funny to see that Kaka has more assists than WPOTY Banega.
Super Progress- Number of posts : 15429
Age : 35
Supports : Real Madrid + Mierda inchada en un palo
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Registration date : 2006-08-07
Jaime wrote:I heard a rumour that pubalgia could be chronic; but then according to Kaka it seems like what you say, when it is healed it is healed.
I have to say it's funny to see that Kaka has more assists than WPOTY Banega.
Banega has 8 assists
Kaka has 5 assists
According to ESPN of course.
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
Age : 46
Supports : Real Madrid CF
Favourite Player : Butragueño, Redondo, Raúl, Guti, Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Isco, Carvajal
Registration date : 2006-08-08
Super Madrid wrote:Jaime wrote:I heard a rumour that pubalgia could be chronic; but then according to Kaka it seems like what you say, when it is healed it is healed.
I have to say it's funny to see that Kaka has more assists than WPOTY Banega.
Banega has 8 assists
Kaka has 5 assists
According to ESPN of course.
Does ESPN even know what football is?
Anyhow, AS and Marca both have them on 6 for the season. I saw Kaka's name listed first though and didn't look closely at the number.
Guest- Guest
Kaka has been a big load of shit, Ibra has just be a big lumbering slum in the facking team.
Kaka it is.
Kaka it is.
blutgraetsche- Number of posts : 23328
Supports : Deutsche Fußballnationalmannschaft
Registration date : 2006-08-09
Who cares? Should the clubs be in trouble for wasting that money, the Spanish government will buy a piece of land from them just in time.
With EU money...
With EU money...
King Modric- Number of posts : 910
Supports : Real Madrid, soft spot for Liverpool
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Registration date : 2008-12-09
I'm pretty confident that Kaka will turn it around next season. Ibra, IMO doesn't fit Barca's tactical scheme and will be much harder to get the best out of.
Super Progress- Number of posts : 15429
Age : 35
Supports : Real Madrid + Mierda inchada en un palo
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Registration date : 2006-08-07
I have the same feeling.King Pipita wrote:I'm pretty confident that Kaka will turn it around next season. Ibra, IMO doesn't fit Barca's tactical scheme and will be much harder to get the best out of.
In theory I think Guardiola could get the best out of Ibrahimovic but the problem is that it would require too much change and im not sure Guardiola will go to the needed lengths even if it was his signing. I think that is why they will be buying Villa. In the long I think Ibra will prove to be a mistake but it isn't really his fault. Sure he has been way too lazy but his current position just doesn't fit him.
Kroos- Number of posts : 9049
Age : 38
Supports : FC Bayern Munich, die MANNSCHAFT
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kaka no contest
both overrated and deserve not the credit they have
go and rate some germans
both overrated and deserve not the credit they have
go and rate some germans
TheCrazy58- Number of posts : 8151
Age : 104
Supports : Arsenal
Registration date : 2006-08-07
Overall Kaka edges it I think but, almost a year on, I still do not understand why Barca paid so much for Ibra.
DeLux- Number of posts : 4399
Age : 38
Supports : Celta Vigo
Favourite Player : Mostovoi, Xavi, David Silva, Valerón, Raúl
Registration date : 2006-08-10
blutgraetsche wrote:Who cares? Should the clubs be in trouble for wasting that money, the Spanish government will buy a piece of land from them just in time.
With EU money...
Another myth spouted by the hypocritical polacks. The area that they bought is now the financial district in Madrid.
re EU
You were the ones that created that behemoth of unaccountable bureaucracy.
fcb- Number of posts : 40471
Age : 113
Supports : FC Barcelona
Registration date : 2006-08-11
The main question of that transaction remains unanswered: why did the land get re-zoned (thus tripling its value) just before Madrid sold it?
abundance- Number of posts : 1514
Age : 45
Supports : FC Inter
Registration date : 2007-01-29
It's a rethorical question...kas wrote:The main question of that transaction remains unanswered: why did the land get re-zoned (thus tripling its value) just before Madrid sold it?
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
Age : 46
Supports : Real Madrid CF
Favourite Player : Butragueño, Redondo, Raúl, Guti, Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Isco, Carvajal
Registration date : 2006-08-08
Super Laudrup wrote:I have the same feeling.King Pipita wrote:I'm pretty confident that Kaka will turn it around next season. Ibra, IMO doesn't fit Barca's tactical scheme and will be much harder to get the best out of.
Romford Pele- Number of posts : 18652
Age : 34
Supports : Arsenal (Team Progress)
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Registration date : 2006-10-05
Ibra definitely.
He plays in an established team which is settled. Still chokes in the majority of big games despite having an ednless conveyor belt of creativity behind him. That said, As SM highlighted, it's not really his fault as everyone knew he wouldn't fit into Barca's system, pressing game etc - just not his style. Then again, I have no sympathy for system players. WC players should be able to fit in and apply themselves to any system.
With regards to Kaka, he has also been a big diappointment. It's a shame because i'm very much in his corner and always have been. It seems many are still at a loss to explain why his form has been so bad. Obviously he has been blighted by injuries but you can't always use that as an excuse. Some players do take longer to adapt to different leagues though so we'll see how he fares next season.
In his defence, he's been used to playing in a settled team where everyone knows what they're doing. At Madrid, there are always changes and players don't know whether they're coming out or staying in - same with the managers.
It also doesn't help that the two strikers playing infront of him are very individualistic and don't give enough to the team as a whole in my opinion.
He plays in an established team which is settled. Still chokes in the majority of big games despite having an ednless conveyor belt of creativity behind him. That said, As SM highlighted, it's not really his fault as everyone knew he wouldn't fit into Barca's system, pressing game etc - just not his style. Then again, I have no sympathy for system players. WC players should be able to fit in and apply themselves to any system.
With regards to Kaka, he has also been a big diappointment. It's a shame because i'm very much in his corner and always have been. It seems many are still at a loss to explain why his form has been so bad. Obviously he has been blighted by injuries but you can't always use that as an excuse. Some players do take longer to adapt to different leagues though so we'll see how he fares next season.
In his defence, he's been used to playing in a settled team where everyone knows what they're doing. At Madrid, there are always changes and players don't know whether they're coming out or staying in - same with the managers.
It also doesn't help that the two strikers playing infront of him are very individualistic and don't give enough to the team as a whole in my opinion.
bluenine- Number of posts : 22998
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Romford Pele wrote:Ibra definitely.
He plays in an established team which is settled. Still chokes in the majority of big games despite having an ednless conveyor belt of creativity behind him. That said, As SM highlighted, it's not really his fault as everyone knew he wouldn't fit into Barca's system, pressing game etc - just not his style. Then again, I have no sympathy for system players. WC players should be able to fit in and apply themselves to any system.
With regards to Kaka, he has also been a big diappointment. It's a shame because i'm very much in his corner and always have been. It seems many are still at a loss to explain why his form has been so bad. Obviously he has been blighted by injuries but you can't always use that as an excuse. Some players do take longer to adapt to different leagues though so we'll see how he fares next season.
In his defence, he's been used to playing in a settled team where everyone knows what they're doing. At Madrid, there are always changes and players don't know whether they're coming out or staying in - same with the managers.
It also doesn't help that the two strikers playing infront of him are very individualistic and don't give enough to the team as a whole in my opinion.
Kaka had been poor in the last season or two at Milan too.... he has just continued his injury plagued poor form at Madrid. Ibra, on the other hand, was on fire for Inter. To some extent he is wasted at Barca, and to a large extent he just doesn't seem to care enough. It was kind of like most of us predicted, or feared... Ibra is used to beiing the creative star of the team, the luxury player. He is not so at Barca, who are also playing him in the wrong role. Ibra needs to play deeper, and needs to be given a freer role. But at Barca, Xavi & Iniesta already excel at that space, and Ibra does not have the work rate needed to convince Pep to play him at Pedro's position...
It will be interesting how Barca play this season, if Ibra stays.... will Pep play Villa in the wing, or will he play Villa as the CF with Ibra behind him... the latter is very improbable, but that Barca could be deadlier.
Guest- Guest
I think the answer is pretty clear now due to recent events, if the past 3 seasons of kaka's averageness wasn't enough
S4P- Number of posts : 14358
Age : 44
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Kaka.
Most people seemed to know that Ibrahimovic would be too slow a player for Barcelona's quick attacking football (in much the same way that Berbatov seems too slow for Man Utd - another quick attack-minded team).
Kaka was (generally) expected to be a success.
Most people seemed to know that Ibrahimovic would be too slow a player for Barcelona's quick attacking football (in much the same way that Berbatov seems too slow for Man Utd - another quick attack-minded team).
Kaka was (generally) expected to be a success.
BoBo Vieri 32- Number of posts : 10187
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S4P wrote:Kaka.
Most people seemed to know that Ibrahimovic would be too slow a player for Barcelona's quick attacking football (in much the same way that Berbatov seems too slow for Man Utd - another quick attack-minded team).
Kaka was (generally) expected to be a success.
I think you are missing the word "counter" somewhere.
Ricardo Jol- Number of posts : 12766
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blutgraetsche wrote:Who cares? Should the clubs be in trouble for wasting that money, the Spanish government will buy a piece of land from them just in time.
With EU money...
It is so wrong
Why aren't all EU countries so faithful as Holland and Germany....
stinger- Number of posts : 6477
Age : 44
Registration date : 2008-07-29
I don't particularly like Ibra and I still think buying him for that kind of money was a huge, huge mistake by Barca... but really can't understand anyone saying, that he was a worse transfer than Kaka . Ibrahimowic at least scored a few goals and was available to his coach, when Kaka was either injured, or even less productive than Ibra, when he was playing.
I don't know if private agendas are a reason for this or not, but I just don't get it...
I don't know if private agendas are a reason for this or not, but I just don't get it...
d gorgeous one haz spoken- Number of posts : 585
Age : 36
Registration date : 2006-08-25
zlatan has re-sale "value", kaka's career looks finished.