Who was the bigger flop?

...

He compares Shevchenko at his peak to a kid starting out in the game and the kid still wins

Not very clever Bobo

COTR wrote:


He compares Shevchenko at his peak to a kid starting out in the game and the kid still wins

Not very clever Bobo

at his peak?

More like a Sheva past his best.

Henry starting out in the game?

It was his 5th professional season

Henry got tomatoes thrown at him. That says it all...

Sheva because I think Chelsea where expecting more. Then again I'm not sure what Juventus where expecting when they bought a young Henry.

According to wiki, Henry played 16 games at Juve, scored 3. Shevchenko cost 3 times the price, but scored at the same rate over 3 times as many games (9 in 47). Even without considering the fact Shevchenko's experience and age should have meant him being quicker to adapt, it's clear from these facts he was the bigger flop.

BrianS wrote:Sheva because I think Chelsea where expecting more. Then again I'm not sure what Juventus where expecting when they bought a young Henry.

Intended to be a replacement for Del Piero.

debaser wrote:According to wiki, Henry played 16 games at Juve, scored 3. Shevchenko cost 3 times the price, but scored at the same rate over 3 times as many games (9 in 47). Even without considering the fact Shevchenko's experience and age should have meant him being quicker to adapt, it's clear from these facts he was the bigger flop.

Did you watch either?

Don't forget Sheva's CL contribution.

Shevchenko's age made it harder to adapt. Its always easier to adapt when you're younger.

COTR wrote:


He compares Shevchenko at his peak to a kid starting out in the game and the kid still wins

Not very clever Bobo

I dont think you can say that he can was at his peak. he had a decent season before but like i mentioned with Raul before if Chelsea had bought Raul during the 2004 summer as it was rumoured i believe i think things would have most certainly gone the same way. since his Chelsea days he hasnt changed physcially in Milan at all and he is still Cr@p. for me that proves the point. if he suddenly became good again in Milan then it would be proof he couldnt do it at Chelsea but this hasnt been the case. i still think he will do better at Milan then at Chelsea because it is his league,team,support,etc. but nonetheless he will not be anything like a world beater or a starter.

Regarding Henry i didnt see him in Juve as i wasnt all that in to football at that time as i am now. in this one i will have to say clearly that Sheva is the biggest flop. because while i most certainly dont think Sheva was at his peak when he joined Chelsea, much much more was expected i think then of Henry. Also it is always tough to play your first season in a foreign league at young age so i wont even judge him like that. still think he is overrated for his Arsenal time but dont think he deserves flak for his juve time.
allthough it is quite funny that they threw tomatoes at him.

debaser wrote:According to wiki, Henry played 16 games at Juve, scored 3. Shevchenko cost 3 times the price, but scored at the same rate over 3 times as many games (9 in 47). Even without considering the fact Shevchenko's experience and age should have meant him being quicker to adapt, it's clear from these facts he was the bigger flop.

I love stats

But I dare to say that it's easier to score in Italy than England (PL better and tougher than Serie A).

Kluivert at Milan!! Couldnt hack it there!

this is a ridiculous discussion, whatever your criteria Shevchenko was probably the biggest flop ever. Henry at Juventus was a raw talent and the club made a profit when they sold him. Shevchenko arrived and was to be the difference between Chelsea dominating England and them dominating Europe. He left the club a laughing stock.

Stats

Glenn Hysén wrote:this is a ridiculous discussion, whatever your criteria Shevchenko was probably the biggest flop ever. Henry at Juventus was a raw talent and the club made a profit when they sold him. Shevchenko arrived and was to be the difference between Chelsea dominating England and them dominating Europe. He left the club a laughing stock.

Juve didn't make a profit on Henry. If you want to claim Henry was a raw talent, then one can also claim Sheva was past his best.

Henry was supposed to fill Del Piero's boots and get Juve to the CL places. Juve fans don't miss him one bit.

As for the biggest flop ever - Ian Rush at Juve ("it was like living in a foreign country" ).

To answer the topic quesion - Sheva is a size 10, Henry is a size 11, therefore Henry wears the bigger flip flops.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Juve didn't make a profit on Henry. If you want to claim Henry was a raw talent, then one can also claim Sheva was past his best.

.

how much was Henry signed for and how much was he sold for?

The difference is, if Henry had stayed at Juventus he could and would have got better. The same can't be said of Shevchenko.

Glenn Hysén wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Juve didn't make a profit on Henry. If you want to claim Henry was a raw talent, then one can also claim Sheva was past his best.

.

how much was Henry signed for and how much was he sold for?

The difference is, if Henry had stayed at Juventus he could and would have got better. The same can't be said of Shevchenko.

Apparently he was bought for 10,500,000.00 and sold for 10,500,000.01 therefore a profit was indeed made


I don't think Bobo really understands this whole flop relative to fee and status in the game concept

COTR wrote:

Glenn Hysén wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Juve didn't make a profit on Henry. If you want to claim Henry was a raw talent, then one can also claim Sheva was past his best.

.

how much was Henry signed for and how much was he sold for?

The difference is, if Henry had stayed at Juventus he could and would have got better. The same can't be said of Shevchenko.

Apparently he was bought for 10,500,000.00 and sold for 10,500,000.01 therefore a profit was indeed made

Not really if you take the interest into account...

Glenn Hysén wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Juve didn't make a profit on Henry. If you want to claim Henry was a raw talent, then one can also claim Sheva was past his best.

.

how much was Henry signed for and how much was he sold for?

The difference is, if Henry had stayed at Juventus he could and would have got better. The same can't be said of Shevchenko.

£10.5mil both ways.

Sheva wouldn't have got better because of his age. With Henry it's debatable. He was young, but seems to perform better with the team built around him, which wouldn't have happened at Juve. In fact it's likely he would've been warming the bench.

Ricardo Jol wrote:

COTR wrote:

Glenn Hysén wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Juve didn't make a profit on Henry. If you want to claim Henry was a raw talent, then one can also claim Sheva was past his best.

.

how much was Henry signed for and how much was he sold for?

The difference is, if Henry had stayed at Juventus he could and would have got better. The same can't be said of Shevchenko.

Apparently he was bought for 10,500,000.00 and sold for 10,500,000.01 therefore a profit was indeed made

Not really if you take the interest into account...

By my calculations Thierry Henry shirt sales & extra bums on seats to throw tomatoes >>>>>> possible interest so Glenn may well be right

We will never know

are you really going to continue with this?

who was the better player? Shevchenko
who was the bigger flop? Shevchenko

if you want to give him a run for his money compare him to Henry at Barcelona.

COTR wrote:

Glenn Hysén wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Juve didn't make a profit on Henry. If you want to claim Henry was a raw talent, then one can also claim Sheva was past his best.

.

how much was Henry signed for and how much was he sold for?

The difference is, if Henry had stayed at Juventus he could and would have got better. The same can't be said of Shevchenko.

Apparently he was bought for 10,500,000.00 and sold for 10,500,000.01 therefore a profit was indeed made


I don't think Bobo really understands this whole flop relative to fee and status in the game concept

glad you're not my accountant

Sheva was past his peak. Henry was before his peak.

COTR wrote:

Ricardo Jol wrote:

COTR wrote:

Glenn Hysén wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Juve didn't make a profit on Henry. If you want to claim Henry was a raw talent, then one can also claim Sheva was past his best.

.

how much was Henry signed for and how much was he sold for?

The difference is, if Henry had stayed at Juventus he could and would have got better. The same can't be said of Shevchenko.

Apparently he was bought for 10,500,000.00 and sold for 10,500,000.01 therefore a profit was indeed made

Not really if you take the interest into account...

By my calculations Thierry Henry shirt sales & extra bums on seats to throw tomatoes >>>>>> possible interest so Glenn may well be right

We will never know

wages? Plus lost points (due to his Cr@p performances) resulting in no CL the following season.

All this thread is lacking now is another round of ade versus lerd.

are you really going to continue with this?

who was the better player? Shevchenko
who was the bigger flop? Shevchenko

if you want to give him a run for his money compare him to Henry at Barcelona.

Glenn Hysén wrote:are you really going to continue with this?

who was the better player? Shevchenko
who was the bigger flop? Shevchenko

if you want to give him a run for his money compare him to Henry at Barcelona.

You can do that comparison if you want.

Also remember, Sheva moved to Serie A 6 months after Henry (at a similar age) and ended up being top scorer in his first season.

I don't want to do that comparison

just pointing out that this comparison is absurd

My dad's bigger than your dad.

Ade, LRD called you gay.

Let it begin!

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Glenn Hysén wrote:are you really going to continue with this?

who was the better player? Shevchenko
who was the bigger flop? Shevchenko

if you want to give him a run for his money compare him to Henry at Barcelona.

You can do that comparison if you want.

Also remember, Sheva moved to Serie A 6 months after Henry (at a similar age) and ended up being top scorer in his first season.

Seriously, if your club signs a 22-yr old from abroad in January...what do you expect from them in that season? Generally, I'd see the first few months as a settling-in period, ready to step up the next season. Henry did the first few months, then left. I fail to see how this makes him the biggest flop of all time. It's not in the same ballpark as a 30m striker, at a prime age (even if he was prematurely washed-up) who could barely score over 2 seasons playing up front in one of the strongest sides in the league.

debaser wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Glenn Hysén wrote:are you really going to continue with this?

who was the better player? Shevchenko
who was the bigger flop? Shevchenko

if you want to give him a run for his money compare him to Henry at Barcelona.

You can do that comparison if you want.

Also remember, Sheva moved to Serie A 6 months after Henry (at a similar age) and ended up being top scorer in his first season.

Seriously, if your club signs a 22-yr old from abroad in January...what do you expect from them in that season? Generally, I'd see the first few months as a settling-in period, ready to step up the next season. Henry did the first few months, then left. I fail to see how this makes him the biggest flop of all time. It's not in the same ballpark as a 30m striker, at a prime age (even if he was prematurely washed-up) who could barely score over 2 seasons playing up front in one of the strongest sides in the league.

Well when Milan signed Sheva at a similar age, he settled immediately, scoring a hattrick against us and ending up topscorer. Juve is a huge club and you have to perform or you'll be out. They bought him to ease their striker crisis, no room for a settling in period.