Rafa Benitez - How good is he?

With his departure from Liverpool looking increasingly imminent a lot of fans are divided on how good a manager he is.

Clearly he's proven he can win trophies, I wont go into his honours as everyone knows them. But there's an arguement also that he is just too stubborn and hasn't learnt how the English game works in the 5 years he's been here. A lot of his signings have been questionable and he continues to baffle with his substitutions, favoured players and team selections.

What I'm asking is, if he does leave Liverpool this summer and join Juventus as the papers would have you believe will he take them back to the top of Italian football and make them serious contenders in Europe? Is he that good that he will have success wherever he goes?

I think he is a very good manager. He has had to compete with managers who had more money at hand and a better squad already so perhaps not so surprising that it has taken some time. A shame that when he finally seemed to have found the right tight balance he lost a key player in Alonso. I don't know how many of his purchases have been his so hard to say in this regard.

Benitez is can certainly improve Juventus but their problem has mostly been in their director of sports and as far as I know he isn't going anywhere so this still be a stumbling block for Benitez. Will be interesting to see how he takes care of Diego who doesn't seem the type he likes to play. At least he will improve their defence considerably which is much needed. Juventus has had the same problem Liverpool has had which is that they don't have anybody to distribute the ball for them.

Clubs on the continent are run differently. In Turin, it will be the sporting director doing the transfers. Benitez will have a say, sure, but his main job will be to train the team, not buying it.

His football philosophy is rather similar to the 'traditional' Italian approach, that's why it's likely that he'll have success there, provided he manages to get along with the other people there. It's often the small things that make the difference.

He's a good manager but will never be among the best because:

1. Poor handling of players (he was partly at fault for Liverpool "losing" Alonso)

2. Excessive reliance on seeking to counter the opposition's strengths rather than focusing on his own team's qualities.

3. All his stats/percentages are good and add a new dimension for sure, but you can't rely on them completely. At the end of the day there's a subjective, "gut feeling" aspect to some managerial decisions which you have to get right.

4. In general, very poor with bringing the best out of attacking players. "Always remain on the 5 yard line when the ball is wide" may have worked out well with Torres, but top attacking players generally need some freedom to play their best.

Well, n° 2 is regarded as a virtue here in Italy =)

Jokes aside, I didn't follow Benitez closely in the league, but I've been impressed by his teams more than once.
Valencia was good, Liverpool at his peak made a lasting impression here, very well organized, fast and stubborn.

I'm with Blut when he says that his style is a good fit for Italy, and it's especially true for Juve, which traditionally is the most hard-working, small-club-like ethic of the elite clubs.


Benitiez squad-building ability at Liverpool has been really "meh!", with a steady regress in the last years and a lot of average people inexplicably brought in.
But again as Blut says, it's the DT that counts down here, Juve is almost sure to bring Marrotta from Samp, he's good, if they find a good feeling they can do well togheter (they also look quite similar...)

All in all, Benitez is definitely not a 100% sure recipe for success, but he should at least bring back Juve in the authoritative top tier.

I think he's pretty average. He can set up a defence, he gets his players working hard, and he can spot a defender most of the time. That's pretty much it.

On the other hand his teams lack flair, and he seems to either hate or just not recognize flair players, and tactically he is overrated. You pretty much know how his team will set up and they don't really have a plan B.

I can't say i've ever been convinced during his time in England.

Positives

* He created the best Liverpool team in my living memory
* He restored Liverpool as a respected and feared european side
* He got very very close to finally ending Liverpool's league hoodoo
* He won the CL and proved it wasn't a fluke by consistent appearances in the latter stages after
* His Valencia achievements prove he was able to succeed with different clubs and different styles of football

Negatives

* This season has been an unmitigated disaster, mostly of his own making.
* His ability to keep a large squad happy is non existent. He has his favourites and sticks with them through thick and thin and makes the rest of the squad feel like outcasts which has cost him enormously.
* Reverting to type when things go wrong and not focusing on what his team can do to the opposition.



The positives obviously far outweigh the negatives, but it is the negatives which currently hold the most sway for Liverpool as they are deeply ingrained in the current squad. It would probably be beneficial for both Liverpool and Benitez if a fresh start did come about however I wouldn't rule out him restoring faith next season if he does stay. At the minute I'm indifferent to what decision he makes about his future.

I feel a bit like that too COTR. I do like the guy and if he's here next year then I'll be happy but I can't see another season of the Yanks and him co-existing at this club. There's too much off the field politics, too many mind-games and too much uncertainty. If new investors come and he stays I'll be delighted. If new investors come and he leaves I'll move on. If new investors don't come and he stays I'll be gutted.

He's like a Mourinho lite - slightly less defensive, but has no time for flair players, abhors the use of proper wingers,

and - most importantly - very average in the transfer market. Torres, Aquilani (from what we've seen) and Johnson aside, his squad has not really improved at all in the last few seasons, and some might say it's gone backwards in the time he's been at the cloob

Noah and the Bale wrote:He's like a Mourinho lite - slightly less defensive, but has no time for flair players, abhors the use of proper wingers,

and - most importantly - very average in the transfer market. Torres, Aquilani (from what we've seen) and Johnson aside, his squad has not really improved at all in the last few seasons, and some might say it's gone backwards in the time he's been at the cloob

Johnson has been a massive success, he's so much better than Arbeloa.

Noah and the Bale wrote:He's like a Mourinho lite - slightly less defensive, but has no time for flair players, abhors the use of proper wingers,

and - most importantly - very average in the transfer market. Torres, Aquilani (from what we've seen) and Johnson aside, his squad has not really improved at all in the last few seasons, and some might say it's gone backwards in the time he's been at the cloob

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Despite this season's woes it is still a good squad with a very good first team when fit. He has simply misued the squad and been hit by neverending injuries to key players. If anyone new did come in they would be happy with what they have to work with. The only real issue I have with the squad is the lack of backup for Torres which is solely Rafa's fault.

The team does not compare to the Diao, Traore, Biscan, Mellor, Smicer days and is quite considerably more valuable now.

Noah and the Bale wrote:He's like a Mourinho lite - slightly less defensive, but has no time for flair players, abhors the use of proper wingers,

and - most importantly - very average in the transfer market. Torres, Aquilani (from what we've seen) and Johnson aside, his squad has not really improved at all in the last few seasons, and some might say it's gone backwards in the time he's been at the cloob

The first line might be true for his time at Liverpool, but at Valencia he was very fond of Aimar (a flair player) and used Vicente and Rufete (orthodox wingers) alot. It's ironic that he's become quite defensive now, I remember when his Valencia side lost to Inter, he called Inter "the death of football".

I don't think any manager is perfect in the transfer market - all the top managers have made mistakes.

Wasn't that Inter side coached by Hector Cuper? Compared to him, Inter's tactics at Camp Nou on Wednesday night was like all out attack! So of course Benitez would think it's negative.

As for Valencia, don't be fooled by the personnel. He still played a mostly dull 4-5-1 with a deep lying double pivot in central midfield and an attacking midfielder converted to striker in Angulo. Though I guess this may be partly because of the lack of money he got there.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Noah and the Bale wrote:He's like a Mourinho lite - slightly less defensive, but has no time for flair players, abhors the use of proper wingers,

and - most importantly - very average in the transfer market. Torres, Aquilani (from what we've seen) and Johnson aside, his squad has not really improved at all in the last few seasons, and some might say it's gone backwards in the time he's been at the cloob

The first line might be true for his time at Liverpool, but at Valencia he was very fond of Aimar (a flair player) and used Vicente and Rufete (orthodox wingers) alot. It's ironic that he's become quite defensive now, I remember when his Valencia side lost to Inter, he called Inter "the death of football".

I don't think any manager is perfect in the transfer market - all the top managers have made mistakes.

That was a bit hypocritical of him because as I remember Valencia(or was it Celta) were called the italians of Spain.

However I would say that Liverpool hasn't had a single flair player that had the quality to play for a top club imo so not so strange that he has distrusted some of them.

COTR #6 wrote:

Noah and the Bale wrote:He's like a Mourinho lite - slightly less defensive, but has no time for flair players, abhors the use of proper wingers,

and - most importantly - very average in the transfer market. Torres, Aquilani (from what we've seen) and Johnson aside, his squad has not really improved at all in the last few seasons, and some might say it's gone backwards in the time he's been at the cloob

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Despite this season's woes it is still a good squad with a very good first team when fit. He has simply misued the squad and been hit by neverending injuries to key players. If anyone new did come in they would be happy with what they have to work with. The only real issue I have with the squad is the lack of backup for Torres which is solely Rafa's fault.

The team does not compare to the Diao, Traore, Biscan, Mellor, Smicer days and is quite considerably more valuable now.

The squad is most certainly better then previously. What is also the case is that the teams competing now have improved as well.

TRWP
You don't rate Arbeleo/Skrtel/Agger/Mascherano? Babel however was a big mistake and I don't get why he hasn't brought in a back up striker either.

Also with regards to Alonso I don't think Benitez did anything wrong. He had underperformed so he was right to try to sell him. If that was the reason that Alonso lifted his level is hard to say but I don't think it was the wrong thing to do and it is easy to point fingers in retrospect. If a player wants to go back to his homecountry there isn't much you can do really. Nobody is faulting SAF for Ronaldo leaving and he wasn't even going home.

A Overrated coach, his success at valencia was when barca and real were poor.

He CL Win is down to him doing what every coach with decent players can do, which is destroy and a huge slice of luck.

Messiah wrote:A Overrated coach, his success at valencia was when barca and real were poor.

He CL Win is down to him doing what every coach with decent players can do, which is destroy and a huge slice of luck.

Brilliant

Messiah wrote:A Overrated coach, his success at valencia was when barca and real were poor.

He CL Win is down to him doing what every coach with decent players can do, which is destroy and a huge slice of luck.

2005 - Winner
2006 - Last 32
2007 - Final
2008 - Semi Final

That is a pretty damn good record Messiah.

P.S He didn't have decent players when he won. Igor Biscan was the star man

It was actually last 16 in 2006 COTR.