The "when will Rafa Benitez be fired" thread

Inter are 6 points off the top of the league, have only scored 13 goals in 12 games and Benitez keeps making weird team selections, so how long before he gets fired?

Before Hodgson and after Mancini

Benitez's problem is that he never asked for specific types of players except Mascherano and I can see how useful he could have been to this Inter.

Mourinho was successful because of many things, but he always had the players he needed at his disposal, he asked for a combatative defenders like lucio who also wins alot of balls in the air and he got him, he got etoo who pressures from the attack, he also wanted a playmaker and he got sneijder one of the best and the list goes on.

Benitez wanted to play with a higher defensive line, but he never pressed Moratti to get him defenders that are able to play in this manner, the whole starting back four are not very pacey and can be easily taken out of the game with a high ball over the top. While J.Cesar is not the type of keeper that comes out of goal as sweeper as Casillas and Reina often do.

Offcourse that is not taking away his poor selection of players for each match. It just does not make any sense why Santon did not start the derby on the right hand side, and Cordoba in the center next to Lucio, infact out of all the defenders that were tested again Milan, Cordoba seemed the one to give the most trouble to Zlatan in a one on one situation. It is stupid to think you can beat Zlatan with a high ball, not even Lucio was able to do that, but you need someone rough and quick to make sure he cannot do anything with the ball once it is under control, Materazzi cannot do that.

Finally, it seems to me that Benitez does not know how to use full backs very effectively, Maicon often sits back next to the CBs because Biabiany is too busy running around aimlessly on the wing, while for some reason Chivu who lacks pace is asked to overlap and join the attacks? Is he nuts? why would you want to stop the threat from Maicon's pinpoint crosses and terrifying runs that made him own the right hand side everytime i have seen him play???

Poor selection in each match ?

Don't you mean in one match ?

Bluey has been calling his selections bold all season and let's face it he hasnt had many options available to him

Rafa will win the league barring another injury crisis

COTR wrote:Poor selection in each match ?

Don't you mean in one match ?

Bluey has been calling his selections bold all season and let's face it he hasnt had many options available to him

Rafa will win the league barring another injury crisis

I agree with ya, mate, at least till the last week or two. Its not easy for a new coach to make an impression in the beginning of a stint in a new league, and the ridiculous amount of injuries did not help Rafa's cause. Young Cheb does get carried away with his comments....

But of late Rafa's starting line up selections do baffle logic. It seems to me that he is more concerned about being different from Mourinho, rather than getting the desired result. Look at yesterdays game for instance, 4 CB's & 3 DMs & no wingers.... why?? Specially when you have fullbacks like Zanetti & Santon at your disposal, and when the team has won a treble with Eto'o & Pandev in the wings in a 4231... as Inter showed in the 2nd half, we would have torn Milan apart if we had just repeated Mourinho's formation from the beginning, but to me it looks like Rafa's ego came in the way... injuries is no excuse, coz we had the players for abb efffective 4-2-3-1...

Hey, even Mourinho in his first season had the sense & humility to blatantly copy Mancio's winning formation (once his ideas proved disastrous in the first few games)... coz its a winning squad, and you don't change things if you don't need to... and you cannot change things too quickly like Rafa is unnecessarily... you do so gradually, while maintaining a winning philosopy...

We lost this derby only coz of Rafa's ego, nothing to do with the injuries this time coz he had the players available... I hope Rafa learns quickly, and shows the humility to copy Mourinho's winning formula from now on.... coz if not, this season will become a disaster and Rafa will get fired by the end of it...

Yeah so basically you are back to one game as I said

That is some really strange logic you have used there. Rafa's ego ? He clearly thought he had to keep it tight in the middle to combat Milan's narrow formation and was relying on Midget, Eto and Milito producing. It didn't work, but wasn't helped by that donkey giving Milan a goal out of absolutely nothing.

He'll work it out quickly, especially when Cambiasso comes back however a tough decision may be ahead on what to do with Milito. It is much tougher sustaining a non possession team like Mourinho had season after season. Rafa is attempting to push the team up the pitch, win the ball back quickly and keep it for longer periods which is much more beneficial to the long term health of a squad. He may of course need a few more creative players to make it work.

COTR wrote:Yeah so basically you are back to one game as I said

That is some really strange logic you have used there. Rafa's ego ? He clearly thought he had to keep it tight in the middle to combat Milan's narrow formation and was relying on Midget, Eto and Milito producing. It didn't work, but wasn't helped by that donkey giving Milan a goal out of absolutely nothing.

He'll work it out quickly, especially when Cambiasso comes back however a tough decision may be ahead on what to do with Milito. It is much tougher sustaining a non possession team like Mourinho had season after season. Rafa is attempting to push the team up the pitch, win the ball back quickly and keep it for longer periods which is much more beneficial to the long term health of a squad. He may of course need a few more creative players to make it work.

Come on COTR, you cannot defend Rafa on this game.... or the last few (Lecce, Brescia, Spurs) for that matter.

Tight in the middle, seriously? With Materazzi who hasn't started this year, and was error prone at his best? I am fond of Matrix, but more as a mascot than as a CB... he is our last choice option, which wasn't the case yesterday with Chivu & Cordoba playing the flanks... it was stupid, everyone called it stupid when the line up was announced, and it proved to be stupid in the end.

Obviously, I hope Rafa works out - I haven't given up on him or the scudetto yet. But like I said, he could learn to not try and change too many things too quickly.... changes on a champion squad should be gradual, not so drastic. Anyways, its still too early to judge Rafa at Inter, even tho his start has left much to be desired. Hopefully he will redeen himself bby end season.

As far as "non possession" strategy is concerned ( I like to call it "counter attack"), its at least as sustainable as a "possession" based strategy, if not more. So I do not understand your point there.

Though I cannot blame you for sticking up for your former coach.... there is honour in loyalty!

You've still won less than half of your league games this season. When was the last time Inter started a league campaign so badly?

It was always going to be difficult for Benitez to replicate the achievements of last season, but I hope that Inter can be a force in the Champions League again. We can't have the Germans overtaking you in the coefficients.

S4P wrote:You've still won less than half of your league games this season. When was the last time Inter started a league campaign so badly?

It was always going to be difficult for Benitez to replicate the achievements of last season, but I hope that Inter can be a force in the Champions League again. We can't have the Germans overtaking you in the coefficients.

Thanks mate. But unfortunately, that may be inevitable : http://football-speak.blogspot.com/2010/10/uefa-coefficients-explained-why.html

Super post Bluenine! To be honest it immensely helped my understanding of the coefficients system. Thanks!

At the same time it underscores the issue that the Italian league is staring at. IMO I don't think sides like Napoli, Fiorentina & Samp have the wherewithal to be consistent in the CL. It will be a bonus if they do. It's again up to the big 4 to start working on it.

bluenine wrote:

S4P wrote:You've still won less than half of your league games this season. When was the last time Inter started a league campaign so badly?

It was always going to be difficult for Benitez to replicate the achievements of last season, but I hope that Inter can be a force in the Champions League again. We can't have the Germans overtaking you in the coefficients.

Thanks mate. But unfortunately, that may be inevitable : http://football-speak.blogspot.com/2010/10/uefa-coefficients-explained-why.html

COTR wrote:Poor selection in each match ?

Don't you mean in one match ?

Bluey has been calling his selections bold all season and let's face it he hasnt had many options available to him

Rafa will win the league barring another injury crisis

I realise the injury problem but I think he could have done better with what he has, even against spurs, he never addressed the problem that was so evident from the first leg and continued to place Maicon vs Bale, I would have been 'BOLDER' and played Maicon as Right mid with Cordoba as Right back to keep up with Bale. It is not just the Milan derby, he has been making weird selections all season, he continues to play Biabiany who never did anything worthy so far.

Call me naive or young or whatever, but I realise Inter's problems clearly and a better coach can avoid them, it is not just the injuries, and the last match vs milan, I already said he did not purchase suitable players for his style of football, and that his defensive line should not play too high up the pitch, if Benitez continues to ignore these problems he will find it very hard to win anything this year and to keep his job.

COTR wrote:He'll work it out quickly, especially when Cambiasso comes back however a tough decision may be ahead on what to do with Milito. It is much tougher sustaining a non possession team like Mourinho had season after season. Rafa is attempting to push the team up the pitch, win the ball back quickly and keep it for longer periods which is much more beneficial to the long term health of a squad. He may of course need a few more creative players to make it work.

Not sure about that, at the moment I'm very doubtful about both our squad's ability to recover to full force and Rafa's brilliance in coping with that.

Sure things will get better, the injury and form crysis at the moment is so huge that no team or coach could think of sailing thru a storm like that undamaged, and it's harsh to criticize Benitez right now.
Still the guy starts to look like quite seriously dull as a quick and smart decision maker, and as a leader.

Bluey and Chad pointed that put already but to recap: keep on playing Chivu as fullback while Zanetti is in midfield, relying on the current Milito, defrosting Materazzi for the derby, make almost no use of Santon, ignoring form and fitness issues of Maicon and keep playing Biabiany in front of him... all quite not brilliant choices, and unadventurous ones. Injuries have ruined us but he still had some choices about those things.

Also, Rafa often looks like almost absent minded on the bench and on the media. Ok he has not to try to be Mourinho clone, but he deftly doesn't look like a man that inspire you to give 110% to overcome a difficult situation.
One hopes he's different on the training ground... because I think we will need that for the whole season.

Our main problem is the squad. It's easy to say - look at the injury list, and think about when they'll all come back.
But:
Samuel is out for the whole season and that's a huge problem.
Motta has basically been injured for the whole of his career, except the last two seasons. The signs so far are that he's back to normal. :/
Stankovic has never been an example of reliability in fitness.
I fear we won't see the best of Maicon, Milito and Snejider for a rather long time.
Same for Julio, it's never easy for a keeper to come back from injury.
Players like Lucio, Pandev, Chivu, or even Sneijder, have limits, that were rarely exposed last year but become apparent when the team doesn't work well togheter.
Biabany and Coutinho are not first team material yet (Coutinho just needs a couple of seasons, Biabiany looks more to have the marks of a squad player).

We can address some of this in January but all in all it just looks like is going to be a transition season.
Probably it's just how it has to be in the end. The club could have been bolder last summer, but it's hard to start renovation before you fall.

Just to keep things in perspective

You have had a major injury crisis and are top of your CL group and only six points behind in the league. All it will take is a nice little run when you centre mids return and he can start playing players in their proper positions again and the squad will be looking much stronger. Mourinho struggled quite a bit with Inter as well, including many matches last season. He built an ageing, non possession team whose main attribute was work rate and stability which as I said above is much harder to sustain than a side like Barca which is built on technique.

I have no idea if your owner is patient enough to wait or if the pressure will force his hand and he'll sack him


P.S Not sure why Cheb is going on about purchases. That is clearly out of Rafa's hands, if anyone was even signed at all.

6 points off the top of the league in November

COTR wrote:Just to keep things in perspective

You have had a major injury crisis and are top of your CL group and only six points behind in the league. All it will take is a nice little run when you centre mids return and he can start playing players in their proper positions again and the squad will be looking much stronger. Mourinho struggled quite a bit with Inter as well, including many matches last season. He built an ageing, non possession team whose main attribute was work rate and stability which as I said above is much harder to sustain than a side like Barca which is built on technique.

I have no idea if your owner is patient enough to wait or if the pressure will force his hand and he'll sack him


P.S Not sure why Cheb is going on about purchases. That is clearly out of Rafa's hands, if anyone was even signed at all.

If transfers are out of the managers hands, then how were Inter built by Mourinho? Surely they were built by the owner who made the signings.

If the last 4 years are anything to go by, Benitez should still win the league, despite this slow start. After all, this is a squad of players which have won absolutely everything in the last 2 years. Confidence should be higher at Inter than it is at any other club.

S4P wrote:
If transfers are out of the managers hands, then how were Inter built by Mourinho? Surely they were built by the owner who made the signings.

The current side was not built by Mourinho, as none of the players we brought in were the first names on his lists, but they still ticked his boxes.

The club dictates if we buy and who we buy, but the coach definitely has a say in estabilishing what's needed.
How big his influence is, it depends upon internal politcs and ego fights.
Clearly Benitez had basically zero political weight coming in as freshman, after the triplete and four scudetti, with stricter balance rules coming, so it's not his fault.

Temper counts much also, imagine Moratti in mid august having to say to Jose - sorry mate but we aren't buying anybody this year.

(also, Jose was virtually unsackable, we had him and Mancini on the payroll at the time for a combined 30+mil, so it was better to keep him happy...)

Why do you give a shit?

S4P wrote:If transfers are out of the managers hands, then how were Inter built by Mourinho? Surely they were built by the owner who made the signings.

I love Mourinho, but like Abundance has pointed out, this Inter were not built by Mourinho. Infact the only transfer where Mou got his man was Quaresma. Most other times, Mourinho requested for a specific player, but was only given someone similar (Carvalho-Lucio, Deco-Sneijder, etc). Thats how things work at Inter (and most Italian clubs), transfers are the job of specific Directors, not coaches.

Murray wrote:Benitez hangs by a thread
Rafa Benitez's future at Inter hangs by a thread, according to several of Italy's biggest sports papers

Bored imaginations of idle minds... typically, ignore such media reports which do not even contain a quote...

Will Rafa get to eat his Christmas cake?

bluenine wrote:

S4P wrote:If transfers are out of the managers hands, then how were Inter built by Mourinho? Surely they were built by the owner who made the signings.

I love Mourinho, but like Abundance has pointed out, this Inter were not built by Mourinho. Infact the only transfer where Mou got his man was Quaresma. Most other times, Mourinho requested for a specific player, but was only given someone similar (Carvalho-Lucio, Deco-Sneijder, etc). Thats how things work at Inter (and most Italian clubs), transfers are the job of specific Directors, not coaches.

Coater said that this Inter side was built by Mourinho, but Benitez has no say in the transfer market. I only asked how those two were not contradictory.

Seems to me that the best thing to do is swap Hodgson for Rafa. Both have unfinished jobs to do...

We had a vote at interlist on whether Rafa should be sacked immediately..... 68% voted yes.

Sadly most Inter fans have learnt nothing from the dark ages (1990-2005)...

Murray wrote:
Will Rafa get to eat his Christmas cake?

Is it made using stuff from a white bottle?

bluenine wrote:We had a vote at interlist on whether Rafa should be sacked immediately..... 68% voted yes.

Sadly most Inter fans have learnt nothing from the dark ages (1990-2005)...

I think this is something different. Their anger is not misplaced. The derby brought into sharp focus how Inter have lost their shape. Let's face it: even with Ibra and Robinho this Milan is not that special. However, Allegri has finally managed to organize the team. He has managed to instill his ideas in the team despite being at a big club for the first time in his career. And he did this also despite new players arriving after pre-season training was well underway.

Benitez, on the other hand, has managed to undo all of Mourinho's work in a matter of weeks. Inter's problems were plainly evident against Brescia, Lecce, and Milan. Even if the derby were to end 0-0, the problems were there. Milan were passing all around the defence. Inter were carved open so many times.

I think this is what Moratti was alluding to. Of course, you can't discount the fact that players are unmotivated after winning everything, but Rafa has to shoulder the blame for other things.

As a Milanista, I'm enjoying the view of Inter under Rafa

So should Inter sack Rafa?

NO!!!

I wa dubious about Rafa in the summer, and obviously I'm way more dubious now.
Still, even if I was 100% sure he's the wrong man for the job, asking his head now would just feel... wronger.

Especially with the suggested line-up of possible replacements, which is honestly facepalm inducing.

We've had more than 30 injuries so far, and most of the key players fit to play are out of form - while last year we had a grand total of 12 injuries in the whole season, with many chaps continuosly on fire.
Let's wait some time and see if Benitez is able to steer the car to a comfortable ride.

The only sensible reason to fire him now could be that the club is certain that the injuries are due to the incompetence of Rafa's staff, or if there's an irremediable clash in the locker room.
Both these things are out of the knowledge of the fans.


Moreover, we still have three targets for the first half of the season:
-winning the club's WC
-qualifing for CL KO stage
-staying in the CL zone of the Serie A table, possibly at shooting distance from the top


If we panic and sack Rafa now, what we will do if the new coach fail to reach those targets?
Are we going to fire the replacement too? Or will we keep dragging with him and a depressed team? Either way it's only downhill from there.

I say let's keep Rafa, and save the shock-impact emergency measures for the time when we could really need them the most.

The Mourinho/Triplete momentum is already lost, so we've got to look forward costructively knowing that there's no magic solution that can put us back in time to that state of grace.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

bluenine wrote:We had a vote at interlist on whether Rafa should be sacked immediately..... 68% voted yes.

Sadly most Inter fans have learnt nothing from the dark ages (1990-2005)...

I think this is something different. Their anger is not misplaced. The derby brought into sharp focus how Inter have lost their shape. Let's face it: even with Ibra and Robinho this Milan is not that special. However, Allegri has finally managed to organize the team. He has managed to instill his ideas in the team despite being at a big club for the first time in his career. And he did this also despite new players arriving after pre-season training was well underway.

Benitez, on the other hand, has managed to undo all of Mourinho's work in a matter of weeks. Inter's problems were plainly evident against Brescia, Lecce, and Milan. Even if the derby were to end 0-0, the problems were there. Milan were passing all around the defence. Inter were carved open so many times.

I think this is what Moratti was alluding to. Of course, you can't discount the fact that players are unmotivated after winning everything, but Rafa has to shoulder the blame for other things.

Don't disagree with ya, mate. Like I said earlier, Rafa's big mistake has been to try and change to much too soon... he did have a treble winning squad at his disposal, IMO he should ve made slow, inccremental changes to Mou's team/tactics. Even Mou ended up largely copying Mancio's formula in his first season (once his wingers had failed), its the smart thing to do... that has been Rafa's biggest mistake... injuries, WC fatigue, motivation, etc have not helped him either.

Anyways, whats done is done. Firing Rafa is not the solution - he needs to be given time to rebuild. Of course, if we don't win at least one of the scudetto or CL this season, Moratti will be right to sack fatso in the summer.

I'm a big fan of his (hence me being accused of being a Liverpool fan over the past few years on here ) but he'll go after this won't he ?

As a Rafa fan I'm not that dissapointed.

Mourinho will take the piss but it will make it all the more satisfactory when he is successful again, which he will be.

He should never have taken this job.

Rafa probably should have taken a year out the game to learn new approaches to the game. At a young age he spent most of his time studying tactics and football but I think the stress of the Liverpool situation and then taking this poisoned chalice was maybe not what he needed at this current time.