Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Interesting, thanks for publishing it.

I've heard this age theory a few times now but I don't buy it tbh.

First off, there's no guarantee that if Cesc signs, he'll stay at the club for another 10 years and end his career here. I expect him to only be at Barça for a few seasons, then move to Milan. He's already shown once that although he's a fan of the club, he won't let it stand in the way of furthering his own ambitions. So while he's here, and with Iniesta in his prime, Xavi still having a year or two left, he'll just be creating a logjam.

And Thiago himself has been clear in saying he doesn't feel it's a need to stay at Barça if he's not getting chances to play.

Also, is it really worth spending 40 million euros for a 31/27/24/20 combination? Why not spend 30 million euros next year for a 32/28/25/21 combination. Same thing, no?

Same thing goes for Oriol/Busquets/Mascherano. If the latter is 27 now, in 2/3 years it's unlikely that we'll earn the 10/15m euros from his sale that we need to sign Oriol. The more likely explanation is the scout reports of Oriol that we've read - he's a great destroyer but his passing is not quite up to scratch for Barça's level.

Messiah wrote:Was listen to side lowe the other day on some podcast, he was basically saying that some barca insiders are saying pep and zubi are pushing the deal because

1) the midfield is the foundation on which everything at barca is built.

2) so by getting cesc, they will maintain a 3.5 year gap between the midfielders thus ensuring a smooth transition, in the midfield for the next decade at least.

Xavi(31),Inietsa(27)...........Thiago(20). a 24/25 year old is missing, and cesc is the ideal choice, in the eyes of zubi and pep for obvious reasons.


Xavi(31)....Iniesta(27)...Cesc(24)....Thiago(20)....Sergi Samper(16)(remember the name)

So the push for cesc in not being done in terms of pure squad numbers(makes little sense) but in terms of feeling a gap age gap that they see in midfield.

Its the same reasoning in selling oriol to chelsea with the buy back clause as well.

Oriol(20)...Busquets(23)....Mascherano (27), in 2/3 seasons they are planning to sell masch and use some of the money to bring in back oriol.

This is all well and good in theory but for the foreseeable future (and rightly so) Iniesta and Xavi will always be selected for the big games. And for a player like Cesc who has already been an important player in his club since he was basically 16 that is not going to be easy. And then you have Thiago who is great no doubt about it but you can already see with his dad that he is not going to be the sort that will just wait around for his chance. He thinks he should be playing now. And he is probably right. So I don't think that Zubi's master plan is necessarily going to go over well. Even Mascherano. Do you think he is going to stay around forever getting the odd game in for Busquets and rotating at centre back? That's why you need some middle class like Keita who ain't gonna get all riled up if they are on the bench most of the time.

RE: Cesc

i am also of the view that he will leave once the going gets tough and that he will want to play the big games. but if he stays for 4-5 seasons that would be job done, as their will be another set of midfielders ready to replace him, the thing is the Doctors think xavi's knees are going and he won't be able to manage the same work load as he has been doing for the past 3 seasons, so cesc will at the very least extend xavi's life span by allowing him to rest, the view is that xavi will start on 20 games per season after this season is completed to save his knees.

Re: thiago

In the bigger scheme of things for anyone that is in tune with the barca youth, while thiago is a jaw dropping talent, their is at least another 4 midfielders in the 18-19 age group thats waiting in the wings and if their is one thing everyone knows barca gets right more times than not, its midfielders, is brother is a completely different personally type to him and his the better of the two for example. in the theory is more the age than the name(which is what the same for fucking cesc as well by the way)

Re: Oriol

If is passing that we are talking about, mascherano and yaya wouldn't have been signed for barca over the past couple of seasons, and oriol is already a better passer than both, in the barca sense of passing(you guys know what i am talking about). even busquets wasn't a great passer when he broke into the team, he would just make the simple pass, pretty much what oriol does most of the time.

you will not find anyone in the barca setup or spain's that says oriol isn't a very good passer, his pass completion rate is in the 90's.

it just some scouts who expect every midfielder at barca to be the next pep or xavi that would report such crap.

a destroyer with his passing, he worth a lot these days which probably explains why villa-boas has been watching him for a while an called him personally to convince him to come to chelsea, a top class manager doesn't do that for just anyone, as he said he is the perfect modern day number 6,i hope he gets over his injuries fast. he is still a step slow at the moment.

if Barcelona want Fabregas shouldn't they pay Arsenal the £40m and be done with it?

How much more blatant does tapping up need to be before action is taken? Asking Fabregas to pay his own transfer fee, pay his own wages and sit on the bench in a home-made kit isn't blatant enough?

More than a clubunt

Why are Arsenal charging 40m?

BECUSE THAT IS A REASONABLE VALUE FOR HIM IN THE CURRENT MARKET.

why shouldn't they value him at £40m? I would value him higher. He's not on the transfer list, he has a long contract and when fit is a guaranteed first team player.

age + experience + time on contract + value to club + profile

Barcelona know he wont be sold to another English club or Real Madrid so they are trying to exploit the situation.

Yeah, but that's what I'm wondering - not just about the Cesc transfer, but football transfers in general - what is a reasonable value for a player and how is it determined? You can't just pluck a random number out of thin air, which is what Arsenal seem to be doing.

Why 40, why not 42 or 38? Is it just because it's a nice round number? Or is there some logical reason behind arriving at 40m?

One trend I've noticed is to take the remaining value of the player's contract as the starting point, then add on a premium based on other "soft" factors. Or of course, it could be a negative value as well. But there has to be some basis to these add-ons as well, no?

Do you think Arsenal are being unreasonable in how they have approached this interminable little saga, fcb?

Not particularly. The only thing I find frustrating on their part is the refusal to negotiate even though the player clearly wants to leave. If the BBC is correct, only today are the two clubs sitting down to talk. Last summer it was clear Arsenal didn't want to sell...this time they've left things kind of open, but not very clear. That's partly why things have dragged on so long.

And of course, the ease with which everyone associated with Arsenal has been getting wound up by the comments in the press by Barça players is a bit funny, considering the motivation for the transfer is as much coming from Cesc himself as from the coach and directors of Barça. Xavi saying "I like Cesc and he has the Barça DNA because he grew up here. I hope he signs" is not going to make the transfer happen.

because as much as the evidence would appear to contradict it, Arsenal are not a football player factory. Fabregas' value is subject to a market equilibrium, it's not just the player, it's Arsenal, it's the Premier League and so on. You should consider the prices paid for other top Premiership players (Ronaldo, Ferdinand, Torres, Carrol, Berbatov, Alonso etc) and by comparison you're getting a bargain at £40m.

Seems to me is that the only argument Barcelona have for not paying up is that they don't really want the player.

The impression that has been given by journalists here and those close to the club is that they have been more open to negotiations this summer, but that for all the talk coming out of Barcelona, there has been very little in the way of genuine offers or negotiation. A derisory opening offer that was never going to be satisfactory, and then little actual follow up from there. It's Barcelona who want the transfer to happen, I'm sure Arsenal would have been perfectly happy for this saga to have been avoided and for no bids and no speculation all summer. With that in mind it's not unreasonable in my opinion to expect Barcelona to actually produce more concrete actions than they have done to make it happen - why should Arsenal actively try to sell a player that they want to keep? That makes no sense. Presumably they have held off in the hope that the speculation would drive more of a split between Arsenal and Cesc and make his position untenable, but as he has remained rather cowardly and silent it leaves Arsenal in a stronger position (even if no one would doubt that he wants to go).

From my perspective it's slightly amusing that Barcelona have had this continual drip of media saying how much they want Cesc - for more than a year all we've heard is how great it'd be for him to be there - but it's just not supported by anything serious in reality. You can't go on about how prized someone is, and then talk down his transfer worth and value, and say that he needs to start taking pay cuts because he isn't really needed.

I think Barcelona have no intention of signing Fabregas, and this is all about revenge and sending a message. The want to completely destroy Fabregas' relationship with Arsenal, with Wenger and with the fans before announcing that they will not re-sign an academy player who ran away to seek his fortune. Then they will sign Samir Nasri.

@kas

Interesting about Xavi's knees. I had not heard it was that serious. Because he is a player that never relied on pace, I would have thought he could carry on well into his mid-30s. But maybe not.

Jaimito el Crack wrote:@kas

Interesting about Xavi's knees. I had not heard it was that serious. Because he is a player that never relied on pace, I would have thought he could carry on well into his mid-30s. But maybe not.

doesn't rely on pace, but he overs a lot of group during a match. so those knees will get alot of work either way

Vice-president Bartomeu and assistant sports director Sanllehi met this morning in London with Arsenal chief executive Ivan Gazidis.

Cesc Fabregas has just been described on these pages as "a logjam".

Words are not really required at times, are they.

fcb wrote:Not particularly. The only thing I find frustrating on their part is the refusal to negotiate even though the player clearly wants to leave. If the BBC is correct, only today are the two clubs sitting down to talk. Last summer it was clear Arsenal didn't want to sell...this time they've left things kind of open, but not very clear. That's partly why things have dragged on so long.

And of course, the ease with which everyone associated with Arsenal has been getting wound up by the comments in the press by Barça players is a bit funny, considering the motivation for the transfer is as much coming from Cesc himself as from the coach and directors of Barça. Xavi saying "I like Cesc and he has the Barça DNA because he grew up here. I hope he signs" is not going to make the transfer happen.

Source to back that up?

Guardiola:

"Last year we were interested in Cesc but Arsenal did not make him available," he told a press conference. "This year Arsenal have agreed to negotiate and we're working on it. Prices in the market are what they are right now, but I hope that everything can be resolved."

"Between a midfielder and a forward, our priority is a forward," he said


http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/935651/pep-guardiola:-arsenal-will-negotiate-over-cesc-fabregas?cc=5739

Peter Hill-Wood:

"They have been messing about for a year and a half now and they have got to make up their minds," Hill-Wood told the Daily Star. "The ball is in their court. They have made one bid of around £26 million and another rather tentative one. If they want to buy the player they are going to have to pay the right price - and when you look at what is being paid elsewhere I don't think what we are asking is at all unreasonable"

http://www.football365.com/news/21554/7066523/Arsenal-Tell-Barca-Stop-Messing-About-

Latest news is that talks ended today with still no deal agreed. But Cesc has not travelled to Portugal for the friendly with Benfica, so it's pretty clear now that the deal will happen by next week, just a question of how much.

My Ny-Miami connection says the deal is in the bag. so for those barca fans who want him(can't think of any on here) you can start to celebrate.

the deal is going something like this

Barca: so how does 37 million euros look?
Arsenal: 45
Barca: 38?
Arsenal: 45
Barca: 38 c'mon, its good price.
Arsenal: 45
Barca: okay okay, 38 plus additional incentives
Arsenal: so 39
Barca: yes
Arsenal: no
Arsenal: 45
Barca: okay okay, 40! Final offer! take it or leave it!.

This is where they finished the day. the saga will continue tomorrow

Ah. I hope not. Gonna miss this thread.

Still, if PSG are gonna pay 45m for Pastore you can understand why Arsenal want the same. Should give Spurs a good measuring stick for when Chelsea come back in for Modric.

Arsenal should include a £20m buy back option for in a couple of seasons when Cesc starts throwing the toys out of the pram because he never plays.

Sheffield gunner wrote:Arsenal should include a £20m buy back option for in a couple of seasons when Cesc starts throwing the toys out of the pram because he never plays.

I was sort of hoping that by then Florentino and Mourinho will be gone and we might actually sign some Spanish players. He could be the new Figo.

He could be a good signing in a few years time. The less strenuous playing schedule and Barca's 'special' medical facilities should sort out those dodgy hamstrings, and he's still a very good player even if not good enough to start for them. A cut-price deal at the time he should be entering the prime of his career.

Let's pretend that we were Cesc', Arsenal board, Barca board, what should we do?

Cesc': I'll cut my wages to sort things out
Arsenal: there's no point in holding player whose heart no with the club anymore
Barca: shouldn't sell Cesc' years ago so 40m + Affelay?

Guillem's latest tweet: "El Arsenal rechaza la última oferta: quiere 40m de libras, nada de tantos variables. Me da que esto acabará a final de mes."

Shocking. Arsenal don't want variables they want cash.

Barca are faking it to avoid scrutiny. They have Qtar funds to burn. They will eventually pay in cash on deadline day.

You seem to be obsessed with the Qatar deal...you mention it in practically every other post you make