The Next England Squad

Why was Gerrard a credible choice?

I don't think you understand my point of view, i am a realist, i accept that by overhauling the squad it could easily result in us not qualifying for 2012, but frankly if we do get there with the current bunch the same thing will happen that has always happened, and afterwards we will be having the same debate about where the others are ready. So i say why not make some changes, there's literally nothing to lose.

Gerrard fits in at the moment like pool today our defence needs as much help as it can get Capello was there today he must of seen his performance in the center and must consider changing things.

Rooney needs to back off for the good of himself and everyone. England need him playing a certain way only otherwise keep him on the bench

Kimbo wrote:Why was Gerrard a credible choice?

I don't think you understand my point of view, i am a realist, i accept that by overhauling the squad it could easily result in us not qualifying for 2012, but frankly if we do get there with the current bunch the same thing will happen that has always happened, and afterwards we will be having the same debate about where the others are ready. So i say why not make some changes, there's literally nothing to lose.

Why isn't he a credible vice captain. He captains his club side very successfully.

You can make some changes without binning everyone Pot. Capello can't just say 'fuck it, these players were shit at the World cup so I'll replace them with average premiership players who might not even help me qualify for the Euros'. Far from being realistic, this is utterly ridiculous.

COTR wrote:

Kimbo wrote:Why was Gerrard a credible choice?

I don't think you understand my point of view, i am a realist, i accept that by overhauling the squad it could easily result in us not qualifying for 2012, but frankly if we do get there with the current bunch the same thing will happen that has always happened, and afterwards we will be having the same debate about where the others are ready. So i say why not make some changes, there's literally nothing to lose.

Why isn't he a credible vice captain. He captains his club side very successfully.

You can make some changes without binning everyone Pot. Capello can't just say 'fuck it, these players were shit at the World cup so I'll replace them with average premiership players who might not even help me qualify for the Euros'. Far from being realistic, this is utterly ridiculous.

Or who might be able to form a proper team rather than a rabble about as organized as a barrel of monkeys, as we've had for the past 6 years.

I'm being idealistic ofcourse, expecting a massive change in the attitude of an entire country. We'll always be obsessed with the superstar, that's why we'll never do well at a tournament.

A lot of that is Capello's problem. Why the fuck is Gerrard playing as a left midfielder and Lampard as a central midfielder ? They don't play for their clubs in these positions.

It's not about being obsessed with the superstar. England wouldn't have won the WC regardless of who played so you can't just expect him to throw out some of the players who are the better performers for their clubs. I understand what you are saying but which countries with the limited talent pool that England has would also get rid of the 'star' players ?

Kimbo wrote:

COTR wrote:

Kimbo wrote:Why was Gerrard a credible choice?

I don't think you understand my point of view, i am a realist, i accept that by overhauling the squad it could easily result in us not qualifying for 2012, but frankly if we do get there with the current bunch the same thing will happen that has always happened, and afterwards we will be having the same debate about where the others are ready. So i say why not make some changes, there's literally nothing to lose.

Why isn't he a credible vice captain. He captains his club side very successfully.

You can make some changes without binning everyone Pot. Capello can't just say 'fuck it, these players were shit at the World cup so I'll replace them with average premiership players who might not even help me qualify for the Euros'. Far from being realistic, this is utterly ridiculous.

Or who might be able to form a proper team rather than a rabble about as organized as a barrel of monkeys, as we've had for the past 6 years.

I'm being idealistic ofcourse, expecting a massive change in the attitude of an entire country. We'll always be obsessed with the superstar, that's why we'll never do well at a tournament.

Kimbo there always change right under our noses I was mad with England after the WC Gerrard may of been pushed always by the media but give him credit the man is class running things from that position NOW he must of matured. Cotr always said it was his best position but Gerrard would always end up having to do to much for his club or country in that position. Hodgson is a good help also Cole is a blessing in disguise pushing Gerrard into his favoured place.

COTR wrote:A lot of that is Capello's problem. Why the fuck is Gerrard playing as a left midfielder and Lampard as a central midfielder ? They don't play for their clubs in these positions.

It's not about being obsessed with the superstar. England wouldn't have won the WC regardless of who played so you can't just expect him to throw out some of the players who are the better performers for their clubs. I understand what you are saying but which countries with the limited talent pool that England has would also get rid of the 'star' players ?

Capello, as he says, has his system and that doesn't change, and he has to fit the superstars into that system. Neither SG or FL are 442 players, but imagine if he left them out, there would be wails of "YOU'RE LEAVING OUT THE SUPERSTARS FFS!"

Maybe you think Capello(or any coach for that matter) should adjust what he has always done, and what has built his reputation, to suit the superstars. Personally i say pick the system then the players to fit it, i've always said that. This way it is about the team, rather than a team built around certain players which will suffer if there are injuries.

Also who said anything about winning the world cup? That is 10-20 years away if we were to make the right changes. I'm talking about reaching a respectable level.

Don't know what you are on about Pot. He could easily have just dropped one of Gerrard or Lampard and Cole brought in on the left, hence the 4-4-2 remaining ?

Sensible changes, rather than ridiculous changes. Gerrard has played as a CM for a large part of his career and will be playing as a CM all this season now Rafa is gone.

However should a manager be sticking to a system he knows or adapting the system to suit the players at his disposal ? For £6m a year you would expect a bit of flexibility in your manager.

Kimbo wrote:

COTR wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

COTR wrote:What would you do ?

Force the FA to drop out of the international scene ?

I would play 4-2-3-1 and play him either in the middle or on the right of the 3. Steven Gerrard would be history.

What's you team Kimmy ?

At the start of this thread i said this would be my provisional team for the Hungary friendly.

-------------------Hart-------------------

Johnson---Jagielka--Lescott---Cole

--------Huddlestone----Barry--------
------------------J.Cole------------------

---Agbonlahor----------A.Johnson---
-----------------Rooney----------------

I don't really have a nailed on team, we have to see what the young ones do this season and hopefully have a fairly settled team by next season. Lampard, Gerrard, and Terry would not make the squad though no matter what, if i was manager they would be effectively retired from internationals.

This is all piss up a wall though, Capello isn't changing and therefore England will make the same mistakes for yet another tournament. I'm sure you'll be happy, maybe your golden boy will make 100 caps, goody!

Good team allthough defensively im not so sure. Never rated Lescott really but the midfield looks decent enough. If Hargreaves wasn't so injury prone he should be a sure starter but I already think Capello would do that.

Alternatively Rooney could play of somebody like Carlton Cole(ever fit?) and would have a very dynamic team. Don't think Gerrard is so indispensable as people seem to think and especially since last season where he looked like he deteriorated. While Gerrard off Rooney would nice I think Kimbo might have a point about the good it might do to have some of the superstars out of the team. Won't happen because Capello has been dead since 2007, at least.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Whilst's I dislike Lampard we can't put the failings of this duo all on one of them and the idea that Gerrard scoring 2 in a friendly against a country who last had a decent side in the '50's should cause any of us to revise our opinions of his perfomances in an england shirt is laughable.

Hungary is well on the way to becoming a decent side, but it will take time. The new coach Sandor Egervari was the coach at the Under-20 World Cup in Egypt last year. They finished third. There is a talented group of players that will come through. This match was too early for them.Only one of that squad made this team. The 1950s Hungarian side were far more than decent - they were one of the greatest teams ever. These boys will be decent as will Hungary, but it will take time. Egervari won't rush them. Judge them in World Cup qualification for 2014, not a friendly like this.

EMP wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Whilst's I dislike Lampard we can't put the failings of this duo all on one of them and the idea that Gerrard scoring 2 in a friendly against a country who last had a decent side in the '50's should cause any of us to revise our opinions of his perfomances in an england shirt is laughable.

Hungary is well on the way to becoming a decent side, but it will take time. The new coach Sandor Egervari was the coach at the Under-20 World Cup in Egypt last year. They finished third. There is a talented group of players that will come through. This match was too early for them.Only one of that squad made this team. The 1950s Hungarian side were far more than decent - they were one of the greatest teams ever. These boys will be decent as will Hungary, but it will take time. Egervari won't rush them. Judge them in World Cup qualification for 2014, not a friendly like this.

Whilst I'd like to agree with you here EMP, there is a fundamental attitude problem in Hungarian football which, even with a few talented young talented players, means I'm not optimistic of seeing a major improvement in Hungarian football. The national league is a joke, corrupt, archaic in fact (hooliganism, poor attendances, dilapidated stadia), the players want to get the hell out as soon as they can, are more interested in money (there is non in Hungarian football, or indeed the economy at all) than forging successful careers (what happened to Krisztian Nemeth? - came to Liverpool for money, and his career is now going nowhere). If there were 11 Zoltan Gera's - players happy to move for footballing reasons, adopting the correct attitude - they'd be okay. Tis unfortunately a rarity to see players like Gera in the Hungarian game.

I hope I'm wrong, as I'd love to see the Magic Magyars make a renaissance, but I doubt it very much. Most of those young players will fade into obscurity, not through lack of ability, but wrong career guidance/decision making

S4P wrote:

Ricardo Wetzel wrote:Is England after this stunning victory over the Magic Magyar top favourites again to win the European cup?

Of course we're the favourites. You should know how this works by now. We will produce another 8 impressive performances in the qualifying stages, with the likes of Rooney, Gerrard, Terry, Barry (and possibly even Lampard) having some outstanding games, leading the media and many of the fans to say that we've got some of the best players in the world, one of the best managers in the world who's tough on discipline etc, until each and every one of them flops again at the next major tournament.

The fun part is, that makes fantastic television

hail hail hail the English media

Noah and the Bale wrote:

EMP wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Whilst's I dislike Lampard we can't put the failings of this duo all on one of them and the idea that Gerrard scoring 2 in a friendly against a country who last had a decent side in the '50's should cause any of us to revise our opinions of his perfomances in an england shirt is laughable.

Hungary is well on the way to becoming a decent side, but it will take time. The new coach Sandor Egervari was the coach at the Under-20 World Cup in Egypt last year. They finished third. There is a talented group of players that will come through. This match was too early for them.Only one of that squad made this team. The 1950s Hungarian side were far more than decent - they were one of the greatest teams ever. These boys will be decent as will Hungary, but it will take time. Egervari won't rush them. Judge them in World Cup qualification for 2014, not a friendly like this.

Whilst I'd like to agree with you here EMP, there is a fundamental attitude problem in Hungarian football which, even with a few talented young talented players, means I'm not optimistic of seeing a major improvement in Hungarian football. The national league is a joke, corrupt, archaic in fact (hooliganism, poor attendances, dilapidated stadia), the players want to get the hell out as soon as they can, are more interested in money (there is non in Hungarian football, or indeed the economy at all) than forging successful careers (what happened to Krisztian Nemeth? - came to Liverpool for money, and his career is now going nowhere). If there were 11 Zoltan Gera's - players happy to move for footballing reasons, adopting the correct attitude - they'd be okay. Tis unfortunately a rarity to see players like Gera in the Hungarian game.

I hope I'm wrong, as I'd love to see the Magic Magyars make a renaissance, but I doubt it very much. Most of those young players will fade into obscurity, not through lack of ability, but wrong career guidance/decision making

Have to go to match now, but will reply later. There is some hope though for you. Will explain later.

Stade du Ray beckons, so later.

Everton's Spanish playmaker Mikel Arteta has said he would seriously consider playing for England if Fabio Capello ever came calling for him.

"I don't know what [Capello's] thoughts are," Arteta told BBC Sport. "If one day the opportunity comes, obviously I would have to consider it very seriously."

Arteta could be called up after being given British citizenship earlier this year and has never played at full international level for his native Spain.

The 28-year-old is a long way down the pecking order with Spain, who have a plethora of fine midfielders including Andrés Iniesta, Xavi and Cesc Fábregas already in their European Championship and World Cup winning squad.

The new Hungarian coach Sandor Egervari is the one person that could make a difference. He has already got something good out of these new generation. They may leave for money or whatever, but they still have respect for Egervari.

He has a plan to bring that talented Under-20 squad through gradually. The key to the renaissance is Egervari. If he stays, they have a chance. The players already respect him and he is the one that got Gera to withdraw his retirement. You can't judge them yet - way too soon. Give them time. Worst that can happen is your low expectations are proved right; then you have lost nothing, but I still say give them and Egervari a chance.

By the way the Magnificent Magyars deserve some credit for the rise of African football too. Ever heard of Jozsef Ember and Ferenc Csanadi? Look them up.

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8742_6334578,00.html

Amusing.

The other justification for insulting one of the most successful managers in the game is the omission of Andy Carroll, a player with eight Premier League starts to his name.

and 6 goals.

This is typical though, everyone wanted young players brought in after the WC, now everyone has decided they aren't "ready", whatever that means, and are happy for our future team to basically be the WC team - Heskey + Zamora. Name one English striker with a starting role in the premiership, they don't even have to be scoring. If you aren't interested in Carroll then you aren't interested in anyone. Capello SHOULD be ripped for sticking with the same old guff.

Assuming he does, but the squad hasn't been announced yet right?!

Exactly. Capello's being criticized for the people he's left out of a squad which doesn't exist yet. It's goddamn bizarre!

We know Wilshere and Carroll won't be in the squad because they're in the U21s. Capello's half-arsed attempt at bringing through the youth is over.

With Wilshere & Carroll, all it means is he's decided he's not going to play them for these particular qualifiers and they're better off getting game time with the U21s, not that he's discarded them completely.

These are two of the hardest games in qualification. Not sure they're ideal to throw inexperienced players for debuts. He can still pick a team of mostly the right sort of age if it includes likes of Hart, Lennon, Milner, Young, Walcott, Rooney, Bent, Johnson - these are the next generation below the untouchables. Likes of Wilshere, Carroll, Albrighton come next. Of course I'd like Terry axed and perhaps some others, but there were positive signs in the last friendly.

We were playing a pub team in the last friendly. Also i think Carrolls situation is a bit different from the others, if he's left on the shelf too long he will end up playing for the Jocks.

Carroll can hardly be at the point where he thinks he's been overlooked so long he'll go off to play for Scotland, he'd have to be seriously impatient if he did, as this is really the first squad where he'd be justified in thinking he might get in.

He's playing for U21s, and will no doubt get full call-up soon enough if he keeps up the way he's started this season.

I'm not saying Carroll should be in the squad, it's not even Capello i'm angry at as he is just doing what we all knew he would, it's the fans that are shit scared of change that annoy me. People are too worried about the "backbone" of the team being removed, the team hasn't had a backbone for years, that's the whole problem. People have forgotten the WC already.

Lampard is to have a hernia operation in midweek and will miss the England matches. Players will go to any lengths now to avoid international duty.

I'm sure there will be some disappointed Englishmen on the board tonight in light of this news.

I think it has something to do with the youth coming through. He'd probably rather leave on his own terms than be left out I reckon.

That has solved the Flumps - Gerrard conundrum.

Terry out too because of a 'hamstring problem' Much the same reason as Lumpard I guess.

Might get a midfield that makes sense now.

Terry and Lampard out injured ?!