The Road to the UEFA European Championships - Poland/Ukraine

Nothing bad happened in South Africa Wormy.

Most of the families of the black players in the England team aren't attending.

Romford Pele wrote:Nothing bad happened in South Africa Wormy.

Most of the families of the black players in the England team aren't attending.

Exactly,which means most likely nothing will happen in Poland or Ukarine either with heightened security.The BBC are scare mongering and people are going to miss out on what would be a trip with very little risk.

Do you really think in the Euros there will be so little security that people will be allowed to get beat up inside a stadium for the whole world to see? Do you think Ukraine or Poland want that image broadcast around the world?

The BBC are just jealous we aren't hosting it,so they resort to tarring both of the country's a week before the tournament starts.

Stan Collymore ‏@StanCollymore
Will BBC be showing London riot videos pre Olympics? Highlighting racist twitter abuse to black Britons?Showing "Paki/BNP" on estate walls?

I saw this and am inclined to agree, though it immediately provoked the concerned calls from family etc. Yes it's hard to watch without some degree of concern, but I'm inclined to seek reassurance elsewhere.

That there is a problem with hooliganism in Eastern Europe is well known. The makers of this programme went looking for it and found some nasty examples; I'm sure that isn't too difficult.

You can pick apart the worst examples in any country you visit, including England, where earlier problems with racism and hooliganism are now vanishingly small in comparison – the former for cultural reasons, the latter also through the gentrification of the game and the pricing of many out of stadiums; or Germany, where a documentary-maker seeking to highlight unpleasantness could find a lot of recent ultra trouble or indeed neo-Nazi underground hooliganism to get their teeth stuck into.

(For that matter there was one thing which even I with my limited knowledge spotted as a bit fishy: what the Ukrainian crowd was chanting at one stage was the same as the German "zicke zacke zicke zacke hoi hoi hoi", which has military origins I think but is sung at Oktoberfest and comparable festive occasions. I can't judge how many of those salutes were really Nazi salutes.)

An English friend living in Poland slammed this programme as a typical piece of shoddy scaremongering, which perhaps shouldn't surprise us any more coming from the increasingly pisspoor yet heavily subsidized and supposedly public-sector BBC. We know that these problems exist, but to characterize them as the norm and seek to scare visitors away is wrong and counter-productive. Think about it – do you really believe that life in Poland – or even Ukraine – is that intolerable and so governed by this minority of animals? How would each of us feel if our own country or neighbourhood were defamed as disgusting and unsafe via the selective interpretation of the worst elements and problems in it?

Did Collymore really say that? Bang on the money, good lad. I really have a lot of time for him these days. England could be the country that the biblical mote and beam parable was invented for.

While I agree with you Allez, that it is exaggerated to some degree, if there is a risk then the best course of action would be to avoid the risk. Running down the street from a group of neo-nazi hooligans with knives in Poland is not the time to realise maybe you shouldn't have gone.

The problem is that if you are not white you are a target. I have been working in both Poland (2005) and the Ukraine (2011). In Poland I was attacked by a gang of neo-nazis. While I didn't have any problems in the Ukraine, I did feel conscious of people staring at me, and I generally avoided getting into trouble by not being out too late, not being drunk etc.

I wouldn't consider it on one basis alone such as the racism, but overall with the hotel costs, what does the country offer besides the football etc, I don't find either place that attractive that I would go back there and pay the prices they are asking now.

110% wrote:While I agree with you Allez, that it is exaggerated to some degree, if there is a risk then the best course of action would be to avoid the risk. Running down the street from a group of neo-nazi hooligans with knives in Poland is not the time to realise maybe you shouldn't have gone.

The problem is that if you are not white you are a target. I have been working in both Poland (2005) and the Ukraine (2011). In Poland I was attacked by a gang of neo-nazis. While I didn't have any problems in the Ukraine, I did feel conscious of people staring at me, and I generally avoided getting into trouble by not being out too late, not being drunk etc.

Why are you black? Just asking.

110% wrote:While I agree with you Allez, that it is exaggerated to some degree, if there is a risk then the best course of action would be to avoid the risk. Running down the street from a group of neo-nazi hooligans with knives in Poland is not the time to realise maybe you shouldn't have gone.

The problem is that if you are not white you are a target. I have been working in both Poland (2005) and the Ukraine (2011). In Poland I was attacked by a gang of neo-nazis. While I didn't have any problems in the Ukraine, I did feel conscious of people staring at me, and I generally avoided getting into trouble by not being out too late, not being drunk etc.

Come on, Ten per cent! When one dodgy looking dude asked you for a smoke, that does not constitute an attack. Alright, maybe for you that's an attack, since you're so insecure and for some reason feel inadequate.

My nickname of 10% is catching on.

PuroReturns wrote:

110% wrote:While I agree with you Allez, that it is exaggerated to some degree, if there is a risk then the best course of action would be to avoid the risk. Running down the street from a group of neo-nazi hooligans with knives in Poland is not the time to realise maybe you shouldn't have gone.

The problem is that if you are not white you are a target. I have been working in both Poland (2005) and the Ukraine (2011). In Poland I was attacked by a gang of neo-nazis. While I didn't have any problems in the Ukraine, I did feel conscious of people staring at me, and I generally avoided getting into trouble by not being out too late, not being drunk etc.

Come on, Ten per cent! When one dodgy looking dude asked you for a smoke, that does not constitute an attack. Alright, maybe for you that's an attack, since you're so insecure and for some reason feel inadequate.

I guess someone else is feeling insecure/inadequate due to my comment in the porn addiction thread

Sorry puro didn't realise you were such a pussy

110% wrote:
I guess someone else is feeling insecure/inadequate due to my comment in the porn addiction thread

Sorry puro didn't realise you were such a pussy

Did you not make it past 6th grade reading comprehension? Go ahead, read it again. Oh I forgot! you just make things up as you go along to fit your wrong agenda. How could you be so wrong on so many things FFS!

PuroReturns wrote:

110% wrote:
I guess someone else is feeling insecure/inadequate due to my comment in the porn addiction thread

Sorry puro didn't realise you were such a pussy

Did you not make it past 6th grade reading comprehension? Go ahead, read it again. Oh I forgot! you just make things up as you go along to fit your wrong agenda. How could you be so wrong on so many things FFS!

I think you forgot to login as worms that time

Anyway I don't have an agenda in this thread. I don't tell people not to go to Poland or Ukraine, just my experience of having been there. Everyone is free to make up their own minds.

It seems, puro, you had an agenda for posting something about me, hence the comment about your insecurities

110% wrote:
I think you forgot to login as worms that time

What!

This mofo is delusional among many things. I still like you, Ten per cent! You are an adequate poster.

110% wrote:Anyway I don't have an agenda in this thread. I don't tell people not to go to Poland or Ukraine, just my experience of having been there. Everyone is free to make up their own minds.

It seems, puro, you had an agenda for posting something about me, hence the comment about your insecurities

I'm talking directly to you. You are the one who posts something about other people. I am talking straight to you.

PuroReturns wrote:

110% wrote:Anyway I don't have an agenda in this thread. I don't tell people not to go to Poland or Ukraine, just my experience of having been there. Everyone is free to make up their own minds.

It seems, puro, you had an agenda for posting something about me, hence the comment about your insecurities

I'm talking directly to you. You are the one who posts something about other people. I am talking straight to you.

Is this what you call talking?

I suggest you use your mouth and see a professional

110% wrote:
Is this what you call talking?

I suggest you use your mouth and see a professional

Well, technically communicating, but who's keeping score?

PuroReturns wrote:

110% wrote:
Is this what you call talking?

I suggest you use your mouth and see a professional

Well, technically communicating, but who's keeping score?

you seem to be as you brought it up this stupid argument on the back of the previous stupid argument about your insecurities.

I was only talking about poland and Ukraine until you entered the thread, do you ever think about how much of a fool you look?

I can with you all day, but you are boring as hell

So how about we stop it and get back to Poland and Ukraine

10% trying to be like Puro.

at 4:16 BBC translated "hey, hey, who's not jumping is a Jew" but the fans are chanting "hey, hey, who's not jumping is from Widzew

I forgot to add that this morning on the Tube I saw a trio of Japanese Poles chatting away (yes, this was a first for me too). I couldn't help thinking "hm, presumably these people live their lives in constant fear of violent attack, if those c**ts are right". I'm hoping the c**ts are wrong and that these people are fine, if far from typical.

Difficult to say, and I can't judge without the experience, can only go on what others say. But we were scared of South Africa too (would have been a far more complicated trip for me). I don't really want to live my life like that, even though I'm acutely aware that the glorious parties of '06 and '08 were in western Europe.

I guess we will see if it was worth the risk if I am back on here in July.

I was surprised at the lack of rapage and murder in South Africa(though the Vuvusela's were arguably worse), but I suppose this is a bit different at the dodgy stuff is directly linked to football. I'm sure things in the stadium will be kept under control, in the streets though I am less confident. Hopefully the authorities are not all in denial like that one bloke who said the Nazi salutes were just the fans pointing at the players.

Also Ross Kemp did a good episode on hooligans in Poland, if anyone is actually interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcFjMqTC044


I get the impression I would be worshiped like a god in these places, people say I am Adolf's wet dream.

Kimbo wrote:I was surprised at the lack of rapage and murder in South Africa(though the Vuvusela's were arguably worse), but I suppose this is a bit different at the dodgy stuff is directly linked to football. I'm sure things in the stadium will be kept under control, in the streets though I am less confident. Hopefully the authorities are not all in denial like that one bloke who said the Nazi salutes were just the fans pointing at the players.

Also Ross Kemp did a good episode on hooligans in Poland, if anyone is actually interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcFjMqTC044


I get the impression I would be worshiped like a god in these places, people say I am Adolf's wet dream.

Those Vuvuzelas were horrible,I had to watch a few matches on mute because it was so unbearable.Though I must say I have muted more matches when Gary Neville is commentating.

A vuvuzela is essentially just a plastic-cone-induced-version of Gary Neville's Torres goal orgasm voice.

Allez les rouges wrote:I forgot to add that this morning on the Tube I saw a trio of Japanese Poles chatting away (yes, this was a first for me too). I couldn't help thinking "hm, presumably these people live their lives in constant fear of violent attack, if those c**ts are right". I'm hoping the c**ts are wrong and that these people are fine, if far from typical.

Difficult to say, and I can't judge without the experience, can only go on what others say. But we were scared of South Africa too (would have been a far more complicated trip for me). I don't really want to live my life like that, even though I'm acutely aware that the glorious parties of '06 and '08 were in western Europe.

I guess we will see if it was worth the risk if I am back on here in July.

Most likely nothing is going to happen to you, but it is good to at least be aware. I spent a month in the Ukraine last year and nothing happened to me. I stayed right next to the shaktar stadium, but the league was over. You should take the normal precautions you take abroad anyway, e.g. don't go off on your own, don't get too drunk, if something happens get ready to run etc. I avoided going out late at night, but my white colleagues went and were only threatened with the usual "leave our women alone" stuff. One more thing the level of other languages spoken is quite low (as you can see by some of the advertising we are getting on here), but we had a Russian speaker with us which really helped a lot.

10% are you a Hong konger?

I noticed on your profile it no longer says Hong Kong.

Some one tell me what race 10% is the suspense is killing me.

110% wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:I forgot to add that this morning on the Tube I saw a trio of Japanese Poles chatting away (yes, this was a first for me too). I couldn't help thinking "hm, presumably these people live their lives in constant fear of violent attack, if those c**ts are right". I'm hoping the c**ts are wrong and that these people are fine, if far from typical.

Difficult to say, and I can't judge without the experience, can only go on what others say. But we were scared of South Africa too (would have been a far more complicated trip for me). I don't really want to live my life like that, even though I'm acutely aware that the glorious parties of '06 and '08 were in western Europe.

I guess we will see if it was worth the risk if I am back on here in July.

Most likely nothing is going to happen to you, but it is good to at least be aware. I spent a month in the Ukraine last year and nothing happened to me. I stayed right next to the shaktar stadium, but the league was over. You should take the normal precautions you take abroad anyway, e.g. don't go off on your own, don't get too drunk, if something happens get ready to run etc. I avoided going out late at night, but my white colleagues went and were only threatened with the usual "leave our women alone" stuff. One more thing the level of other languages spoken is quite low (as you can see by some of the advertising we are getting on here), but we had a Russian speaker with us which really helped a lot.

This is a common thing from eastern europeans, a random group of Serbians (we think) tried starting on us in Zante, but we just walked on pretending we didn't see. About a minute later we saw them beating up these 2 random blokes who were stupid enough to retaliate.

Puntys top tip:
Don't act like a big bollocks outside your home town, there will always be a bigger bollock

The Easter Bunny wrote:

110% wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:I forgot to add that this morning on the Tube I saw a trio of Japanese Poles chatting away (yes, this was a first for me too). I couldn't help thinking "hm, presumably these people live their lives in constant fear of violent attack, if those c**ts are right". I'm hoping the c**ts are wrong and that these people are fine, if far from typical.

Difficult to say, and I can't judge without the experience, can only go on what others say. But we were scared of South Africa too (would have been a far more complicated trip for me). I don't really want to live my life like that, even though I'm acutely aware that the glorious parties of '06 and '08 were in western Europe.

I guess we will see if it was worth the risk if I am back on here in July.

Most likely nothing is going to happen to you, but it is good to at least be aware. I spent a month in the Ukraine last year and nothing happened to me. I stayed right next to the shaktar stadium, but the league was over. You should take the normal precautions you take abroad anyway, e.g. don't go off on your own, don't get too drunk, if something happens get ready to run etc. I avoided going out late at night, but my white colleagues went and were only threatened with the usual "leave our women alone" stuff. One more thing the level of other languages spoken is quite low (as you can see by some of the advertising we are getting on here), but we had a Russian speaker with us which really helped a lot.

This is a common thing from eastern europeans, a random group of Serbians (we think) tried starting on us in Zante, but we just walked on pretending we didn't see. About a minute later we saw them beating up these 2 random blokes who were stupid enough to retaliate.

Puntys top tip:
Don't act like a big bollocks outside your home town, there will always be a bigger bollock

So what you are really saying is yous shit yourselves and let another group of men intimidate yous?

In my experience the opposite is true,if you act confident and give off the impression you are game to fight then more often that not they will leave you alone and choose a weaker target.However if you act like cowards and walk with your head down avoiding eye contact you will get taken advantage of and be forced into physically defending yourself.

I also don't agree with your 'top tip'.In essence it reads like this:

Act like a Vagina,bend over and get fucked.It's better than possibly getting raped.