France won 1998 WC with doped players

Says le parisien.

Basically the players, who all played for Italian clubs, had when tested pre-WC too high hematocryte values, suggesting....

EPO

I don't think it's surprising...doping was rampant in all Serie A clubs in the 90s, and probably even other leagues in the 80s and 90s. I guess at the time the rules and testing were not as strict, so you can't blame them completely if the concept of "cheating" was not the same.

I disagree. Cheating is cheating.

No wonder they show down Operation Puarta in Spain when they didn't like the names coming up.

Well, my assumption was that substances which are definitely illegal now may not have been seen that way back then. Maybe it was already in place in other sports, but not in football. I could be wrong though, so feel free to correct me.

Regarding Spain, well, it's normal for any dodgy discussions to be waved away.

Every summer there are multiple accusations of bribes involving relegated/promoted clubs between La Liga and La Segunda, but hardly anything ever comes out of it. No investigations or legal cases actually go through to completion.

Of course this is in a league where the concept of "positive" bribes. ie. paying a team an incentive to "win" against another so that it helps your own cause, is accepted as perfectly normal, despite being highly unethical (at best).

cheating is cheating, if its true they should be stripped, its not like its a recreational drug they were talking.

They ban Mutu for two years for taking coke, which didn't give him at attacking edge in anyway wasn't pep accused are ban as well?.

Of course they cheated, that's what southern european people do! In 10 years time the Spanish/barca/Puerta contignent will come out for cheating these days.

They shouldnt be stripped from their titles though, other nations are just stupid for not cheating.

doped or not, they trashed Brazil and deserved to win. 3-0 is 3-0. enday story.

but would they have got to the final to win 3-0 if they weren't all doped up to get through extra time in the earlier rounds

I say ban all Mediterranean countries from all future events in all sports. It's the only reasonable response.

debaser wrote:but would they have got to the final to win 3-0 if they weren't all doped up to get through extra time in the earlier rounds

I say ban all Mediterranean countries from all future events in all sports. It's the only reasonable response.

and their colonies!

SuperMario wrote:Says le parisien.

Basically the players, who all played for Italian clubs, had when tested pre-WC too high hematocryte values, suggesting....

EPO

would you mind linking a source?
because from what I can google it seems only Deschamps, Zidane and Juventus are singled out, there are quotes about "several players", but no other names or clubs are given.

debaser wrote:I say ban all Mediterranean countries from all future events in all sports. It's the only reasonable response.

Fair enough, but then please ban UK from motorsports and Sweden and Denmark from Euro Cup.

abundance wrote:

debaser wrote:I say ban all Mediterranean countries from all future events in all sports. It's the only reasonable response.

Fair enough, but then please ban UK from motorsports and Sweden and Denmark from Euro Cup.

Just ban everyone or everything.

abundance wrote:

SuperMario wrote:Says le parisien.

Basically the players, who all played for Italian clubs, had when tested pre-WC too high hematocryte values, suggesting....

EPO

would you mind linking a source?
because from what I can google it seems only Deschamps, Zidane and Juventus are singled out, there are quotes about "several players", but no other names or clubs are given.

Wouldn't surprise me if it was just the Juve contingenent. I remember Del Piero was strongly rumoured to be doping at the time too after he gained alot of muscle in a short space of time.

fcb wrote:I don't think it's surprising...doping was rampant in all Serie A clubs in the 90s, and probably even other leagues in the 80s and 90s. I guess at the time the rules and testing were not as strict, so you can't blame them completely if the concept of "cheating" was not the same.

??

Any proof of this? Juventus were involved in a doping scandal in the 90s accused by Zeman, which largely (unfairly) went unpunished (apart from the doctors involved).... we all know they doped and cheated, it was Moggi after all....

But how did that become "doping was rampant in all Serie A clubs in the 90s"?

Well there were those accusations against Guardiola and a teammate (maybe two others? ) from their time at Brescia as well. Ok, I was casual with "all", but I don't think it was just Juve. Obviously I don't have proof because the Internet didn't exist in the 80s and 90s.

abundance wrote:

debaser wrote:I say ban all Mediterranean countries from all future events in all sports. It's the only reasonable response.

Fair enough, but then please ban UK from motorsports and Sweden and Denmark from Euro Cup.

Fine by me. Motorsports are pointless. As indeed are Sweden and Denmark

debaser wrote:

abundance wrote:

debaser wrote:I say ban all Mediterranean countries from all future events in all sports. It's the only reasonable response.

Fair enough, but then please ban UK from motorsports and Sweden and Denmark from Euro Cup.

Fine by me. Motorsports are pointless. As indeed are Sweden and Denmark

Not as pointless as England's participation in football.

Trophies won by England in recent times: 0

Whereas Denmark:

I got a bite

fcb wrote:Well there were those accusations against Guardiola and a teammate (maybe two others? ) from their time at Brescia as well. Ok, I was casual with "all", but I don't think it was just Juve. Obviously I don't have proof because the Internet didn't exist in the 80s and 90s.

It did. I've been a part of Interlist & some other forums since the mid 90s....

You are extrapolating mate, and incorrectly. There ve been isolated cases of doping all across europe in the 90s and even 2000s.

The only serious one that I can remember was the allegations against Juve in the late 90s. The doctors took the entire rap for that, as the drugs (as per evidence) were not banned even though clearly administered for performance enhancing reasons. While most of us suspect Juve were not all that innocent (specially since the doping began after Moggi & Giraudo took over), Juve got away scot free.

Here is an interesting article on it by Marcotti: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/gabriele_marcotti/12/07/juventus.doping/

But extrapolating this to all Serie A clubs is just wrong.

fcb wrote:Well there were those accusations against Guardiola and a teammate (maybe two others? ) from their time at Brescia as well. Ok, I was casual with "all", but I don't think it was just Juve. Obviously I don't have proof because the Internet didn't exist in the 80s and 90s.

Guardiola was 2001, and, like Stam, he had just joined Serie A from a different league.

debaser wrote:I got a bite

Well I use any chance I can to mention that Denmark won the European Cup so I should think you really for giving me this opportunity.

abundance wrote:

debaser wrote:I say ban all Mediterranean countries from all future events in all sports. It's the only reasonable response.

Fair enough, but then please ban UK from motorsports and Sweden and Denmark from Euro Cup.

but against who can the humble and innocent Dutch compete with then if all the other cheating nations gets the ban....?

bluenine wrote:But extrapolating this to all Serie A clubs is just wrong.

In all fairness, it must be said that the whole Serie A system of the '90s is not above suspects.

It's a fact that the CONI antidoping test lab of Acqua Acetosa, which was used by FIGC, has been run like a farce for the whole decade, with compromised security, doctored surprise test scedules, and very liberal management of tests and specimens.

There have been reports of big name players being consulted before publishing their test results, "lost" specimens and so on. And the infamous Cannavaro's I.V. video (which was probably some legit med, but shows a strange familiarity with I.V. treatments) was shot when he was at Parma.

Also, it is known that "strange" practices where fair common in the '70s and early '80s (not only here, I guess, but still) - there's a somewhat peculiar number of players of that era which then suffered weird illnesses.


Said that, nothing has ever emerged about players in teams other than Juve in the late '90s, that's why I was interested in more names.