CL Round of 16 - Arsenal vs. Barcelona match thread

fcb wrote:I know I'll get the usual accusations of false modesty and trying to underplay hopes

Do you get accused of that?

Allez les rouges wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Deluded F*ck wrote:

Romford Pele wrote:It's gonna be really interesting to see what happens when Ramsey returns - he's due back in a week.

Denilson could be the biggest loser when it's all said and done.

I think it could depend on whether Cesc stays or goes.

If he stays, then we'll be overloaded in midfield, and Denilson could possibly be the one to make way for Ramsey(No way will it be Diaby - Wenger rates him too highly for him to ever let him go). It's quite unfortunate for Denilson, it's quite rare that a player has to fight it out with not only 1, but 2 very special talents for a place in a team.

But if Cesc goes, then Ramsey will just take Cesc's place in the squad(yes I don't think Wenger will buy a replacement) and will be a serious contender to take over the role Cesc currently plays in IMO.

If true (and there is enough evidence of Wenger's ludicrous and by now discredited loyalty to suggest you may be right) this is inexcusable.

Becareful Allez, I'm sure u don't want to be eating humble pie like Pierre is doing now with Walcott

Wenger rarely gets it wrong when he persists with an outfield player.

Besides Diaby's talent is evident, he's not a subtle player say like Denilson(the talent is harder to spot, and not appreciated by many).

I mean it's very clear to see Diaby is very skilful, has immense physical qualities(height, pace, power etc), outstanding close control, very good shot technique etc In short, he has most of the tools a player needs to make it at the top level, but his problem is he's also more of an instinct player playing in midfield, so he will never be great in a position that requires him to run things, but he could be great playing a supporting role(basically a position that requires less thinking). We saw glimpses of what an immense player he could be last season. The question is whether that period of good form was a fluke, some fans(like u) probably think so and have given up whilst others(like myself and Wenger) don't think so. We all just have to wait and see because let's be honest, we all don't know with 100% certainty how a player will develop, not even Wenger knows, although he has a proven track record that he almost always gets it right. But again, he could get this one wrong, the future will tell.

We've had this one before Prof and as I said on the Arsenal thread I won't continue because I'll simply lose my temper. Let's just say I don't think it's to your credit that you persist in defending the indefensible. (There was only one way we could possibly have contrived to throw away points the other day at St James's Park – and yes, he found it...)

I'll just say that the kindest I think that can be sad is here is a desperately wasted talent. It remains all encapsulated in what he does when he has the ball – as ever, to hold on to it too long, to over-elaborate selfishly before losing it. As a German fan perhaps the most significant improving statistic in the national team over recent years has been the decreasing amount of time the ball is held between each pass, from well over two seconds to 1.8 seconds to just 1.1sec at the last World Cup I think, only narrowly behind the victorious Spanish – the progression towards one-touch football, the ideal. Xavi said many fascinating things in his excellent Grauniad interview last week, but nothing, for me, more illuminating than his conjuring of the ideal of something even quicker in thought than that: “half a touch” (I can’t remember the Catalan).

Diaby is the very antithesis of this. It doesn’t take me to point out the vast and blessed difference in our team with Wilshere in it – and not him.

No Arsenal player is indefensible to me Allez, is it to yours though that u continue to show so much hate for a player that represents the club u support? It's one of the reason I never took part in the Adebayor hate before he disgraced himself against City, the hate he received from fans before his breakthrough season was unbelievable. Let's face it, the worst crime Diaby has committed is obey what the manager tells him each weekend ie go out on the pitch and represent the club that pays his wages. Now if u think he's absolutely useless and adds nothing to the team, shouldn't your anger(hate) be directed at the manager who picks him?(because that's clear incompetence continuously picking a player of zero use). What options has the player got in this case, picks up his wages but refuses to play because some people think he'll never come good? imagine the rage on here if news broke out that he refused to play despite being fit.

You point about him being prone to holding on to the ball for too long is valid, but u refuse to accept he can also play well without needlessly hogging the ball - the game against Newcastle is a good example, the 1st half was probably our best of the season. We passed the ball at pace with Diaby at the centre of most what we did going forward, taking minimal touches on the ball. I was watching the Roma game(from the 2008/2009 season) this afternoon, he was great that night and our football was played at full pace, we definitely dropped a level down when he went off injured. Besides our team is full of ball hoggers, very few pass it 1st time(Wilshere, Cesc, Denilson, Rosicky), it's only a crime though when Diaby does it.

I think it's impossible for all of us to rate/like players equally, so we are bound to disagree on certain things, which i like coz it forces me to be critical of my views and as a result learn a lot when we have these sort of discussions. There are certain things we'll end up agreeing on despite earlier disagreements, there are others we'll never agree on(like our views on Diaby it seems) which is itself no big deal. The only danger arises when we start considering our opinions as the absolute truth, that's when most lines are crossed and agendas developed. Sadly, i think there's some agenda against Diaby on here from some of our fans. He's criticized for things no other player would ever be criticised for, see for example him being singled out for criticism after the Huddersfield game on our thread, that was his 1st match in a long time. When he plays well it's hardly mentioned, but it only takes an average performance from him before he's targeted again - that reeks of an agenda and it's a shame when it comes from people that are supposed to support him. Now if he dives around, refuses to train, becomes an alcoholic or does things that brings shame to the club then I'd understand, but his biggest crime is trying to play to the best of his ability. As I said, if he's consistently useless on the pitch then the blame(hate or whatever agenda) should be directed at the manager who consistently picks him, as he's got no choice but to play when picked. In short, let's us for the umpteenth time agree to disagree as far Diaby is concerned, at least we agree Garry Neville is a cvnt and Shweini is boss

Sorry I've just been away on a long weekend...

Well none of this was meant quite as seriously or aggressively as it may have come across, so I do apologize if I gave that impression. I think I can claim to be more defensive if anything about Arsenal than most, so hate really is a rather strong word and goes too far for what I was trying to say.

I think it's important when supporting a club both to "get behind" it and not to be uncritical – the two can go hand in hand, and I think the worst kind of cluelessness is the gratuitously whingeing contemptuous kind when you wonder whether the relevant person actually supports "their" team at all.

You make decent points, and what you say about an opinion becoming an agenda is very true – I think it's human nature though to an extent. I can see all the positive points you make about Diaby, and what he can do when he puts his mind to it; unfortunately what the Newcastle game will be remembered for is how he ended it, which overwhelms any good work he'd done up till then. I don't think that's entirely untypical of him – I still remember angrily his crazy red-card tackle when we were already 2-0 down at Bolton a few years ago and how we somehow managed to come back and win without him. The kind of performances you refer to have for me almost invariably been "when the going is easy", as it were, not in the very toughest games, not when it really counts.

I didn't mean to give the impression of a hater, far from it – I think it's likely for instance that taking the whole picture into consideration I'm the biggest Arsène fan on here; that doesn't mean I can't criticize him, whether for his refusal to use tactics or for instance the downside of his at times extreme loyalty. Likewise I delight in rating Nicklas Bendtner more highly than almost everyone else seems to – doesn't make me blind to his faults.

I think it's fair to say I'd be surprised if Diaby came up with a performance like Wilshere's the other night, in a game of such importance – but as you say indeed one of the joys of football is being proved wrong (in a nice way). I'm just not sure we can risk the chance of letting Diaby have sufficient opportunity to prove me wrong.

It goes without saying that being serious/fair for a moment he is anything but useless: it's what he does with that undeniable talent that's the question for me. Maybe, for instance, he will go on to have a far more successful career with France than with Arsenal. In the meantime exchange of opinions is supposed to be fun and constructive, so I hope you don't take any real offence and no I don't think our opinions on G. Neville or Bastian are particularly controversial...

Sorry Arsenal fans (and debaser)...under normal circumstances I don't care who wins or loses, but that result is *massive* for Barça. While our players show a return to form and win a confidence-boosting tough away game with 4 starters out, Arsenal lose their biggest occasion in 5 years in the worst way possible. From now till next week, there'll be only one thing in the mind of anyone related to Arsenal: doubt, doubt, doubt.

Great result for Barça. Huge psychological blow for Arsenal. Thank you Birmingham. Sczezny/Koscielny.

Arsenal season started its collapse today. Edge past Orient, then knocked out by United and Barca in the two cup ties.

don't think this game will play any part in the return leg.

pep's team normally destroys teams at the camp nou in this round of the CL, lets see if this continues to be the case

The two games we have coming up is enough of a buffer to put today's result behind us. If you win in ten days it certainly won't be down to the way we lost today.

Now to wait and find out about van Persie's knee injury.

Will Fabregas be fit in time then or what? If not I can see Barca absolutely destroying Arsenal in midfield this time. Wilshere was great at home but can he do it again at the Nou Camp? It's unlikely.

No Van Persie. No Walcott. Cesc just about back in time (won't be at 100% sharpness)

Annual Arsenal Injury Crisis

fcb wrote:
Now a lot of people are saying Barça are favourites for the 2nd leg and will still win easily, but I don't agree. I know I'll get the usual accusations of false modesty and trying to underplay hopes, but just like I was more and more nervous as we got close to this 1st leg, I'm very worried about us getting knocked out now.

As a fan, so your nervousness is understandable. However, most people realise that 2-1 is too slender a lead to confidently take to Camp Nou. Had it been 2-0 or 3-1, we could ve been talking about a more balanced tie, one even in Arsenal's favour. At 2-1, Arsenal are left hoping that Barca have an off day....

Well, my mood has changed. I'm quite optimistic now. Our team is in good form again, I'm feeling good vibes. The momentum that I spoke of has been wiped out now, esp. with Arsenal's Carling Cup defeat.

Plus Arsenal have key injuries (as usual), and I just don't see them playing as well and as intelligently for another 90 full minutes as they did in the first leg. As I said, they have to avoid the dangerous mindset of "it's ok even if we lose in the 2nd leg and get knocked out...it's Barça after all...we did beat them already". They shouldn't have a "we've got nothing to lose" attitude, but instead a "must be ruthless and finish the job" attitude. But judging by Nasri's comments, they've failed:

http://www.marca.com/2011/03/03/futbol/liga_campeones/1299190140.html

"It's normal if we lose because they are the best team in the world".

Kas not pretending he's 'worried' for once This could backfire.

Sam not sounding anything like so defeatist in the interview Cesc just posted in the Arsenal thread.

I'd take all this crap with a pinch of salt.

You could say he is taking the pressure off his team-mates. Like most pre-match comments they can be spun either way, I don't usually give them a lot of attention tbh.

Having van Persie & Walcott out is blow to our chances, but our injury situation was worse last year with Gallas, Song, Fabregas & Arshavin all missing. We can still field a strong line-up on Tuesday.

Chance to close the gap to Man. Utd. to just one point, and Arsenal choke

As I said, doubt doubt doubt doubt doubt.

Talking of doubt. Wilshire is now doubtful for Tuesday.

I doubt this wont be a good game.

Luis wrote:I doubt this wont be a good game.

Can I edit it to read: I think this will be a good game?

Depends if we can put a competent midfield out. Their defence wont matter if our midfield is useless.

So:

-----------Valdes------------
Alves-Busquets-Abidal-Maxwell
--------Mascherano-----------
------Xavi-----Iniesta-------
--Pedro----Messi----Villa----

Keita for Mascherano after 50 mins to push for the goal, and once Mascherano has got his customary yellow.


What's on the cards for Arsenal?

Cesc and Wilshere expected to be fit, but Song is out

fcb wrote:So:

-----------Valdes------------
Alves-Busquets-Abidal-Maxwell
--------Mascherano-----------
------Xavi-----Iniesta-------
--Pedro----Messi----Villa----

Keita for Mascherano after 50 mins to push for the goal, and once Mascherano has got his customary yellow.


What's on the cards for Arsenal?

Is Milito that bad now?

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

fcb wrote:So:

-----------Valdes------------
Alves-Busquets-Abidal-Maxwell
--------Mascherano-----------
------Xavi-----Iniesta-------
--Pedro----Messi----Villa----

Keita for Mascherano after 50 mins to push for the goal, and once Mascherano has got his customary yellow.


What's on the cards for Arsenal?

Is Milito that bad now?

Yes.

Wait a minute, what happened to Pique? Did I miss something?

About time Barca got some defensive reinforcements in rather than signing needless players like Mascherano and Affelay.

RvP back in the squad for tomorrow.

So, mircaulous recovery or blatant lie?

Cesc Soler wrote:RvP back in the squad for tomorrow.

Of course it happens just after I transfer him out of my fantasy team.

Hlebagone wrote:So, mircaulous recovery or blatant lie?

I don't think we would have let two points slip against Sunderland just to lie about this. Especially as it was already known that Barca don't really have the defensive options to attempt to counter him. They have to play with what they have.

Liars

RVP will probably be on the bench. Surely Wenger is not stupid enough to rush him back when Arsenal have probably their best ever chance to win the Premier League.


@Luis: Pique's suspended. And the defensive reinforcements will come in the summer - either in the form of a new signing, or more opportunities for Montoya-Fontas-Bartra-Muniesa. That's a whole back 4 with seriously high expectations on each one

Nah, nobody (except Messiah) thinks Muniesa is any good. Maybe you can re-buy Chgyrgrgygrygyrggyrygyrygskiy next summer.

Are you kidding? I'm firmly in the Muniesa fan club. Future captain, and not just because he looks like Puyol.