African Cup of Nations

Allez les rouges wrote:Not really. We all know why you're saying this, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make much sense. It's not as if England have ever been accused of dirty tricks in any of their manifold and infamous collapses over the years, and nor for that matter have Pakistan, who've routinely done similar, until very recently.

And in fact even a big fan such as me has some sympathy with the argument that the gravity of their crimes was such that they should have been kicked out of the game for a number of years.

Obviously you don't. Pakistan are under the microscope in a way that no other team is. To some extent that was inevitable after Butt et al. That they ae guilty is clear on the evidence and they deserve all they get and more, but the rest of the team should not be tarred with the same brush. If there is evidence that they also cheated, throw the book at them, but that should apply to the other countries where this happened.
By the way I notice you didn't comment on the Essex bowler that became the first Englishman convicted of match-fixing recently.
I'm saying it not because of racism, which you seem to think is my point. It isn't. It is that there is a different yardstick for Pakistan. India has an awful history of match-fixing and South Africa too, but Pakistan seems to be the whipping boy over it. When the World Number 1 has a history of match-fixing through corrupt payments by gamblers as occurred in India (Azharruddin and Jadeja for example) get thrashed 4-0, you would expect questions to be asked. They weren't. They probably were beaten out of sight fairly - don't know I was abroad and didn't see a single ball of it.

The same applies to South Africa after Hansie Cronje's disgrace, which involved other players too, including Herschelle Gibbs among others. Is every sub-standard performance by them subject to scrutiny? If not why not? Why is it only Pakistan? , (note the India point, which should put an end to your racism claim). Something odd is going on that there is onle standard for Pakistan and a different one for others despite a recent history of far worse offences. Spot-fixing is reprehensible, but throwing a match deliberately, which Azharruddin and Cronje did is far worse. It is pretty clear that if Pakistan had performed as England did they would have been accused of it - not that they did it or that England did. As I said, I don't think they did, but every time Pakistan do badly match-fixing is and will be thrown at them. If that was done to India and South Africa as well, then fair enough, but it isn't.

I have no problem with lengthy bans for Butt et al, but I do have a problem with banning Pakistan unless it can be proved that the team and selectors knew it. AAll individuals that are culpable should be banned and for a long time - life even. Without it cricket lacks integrity and cannot hope to regain it.

I know enough about the recent history of match-fixing to be aware of India and South Africa's own shameful recent record as well as the Essex story from a few weeks ago. And if you knew me you would be well aware that I would defend Pakistan from any unfair singling out or inconsistent standards (though come off it, the death of Bob Woolmer looked highly suspicious at the time).

I just find it quite funny, if not surprising, that you use the context of the last Anglo-Pak test to stir up some hypothetical disapproval of some hypothetical criticism of some hypothetical (reversed) result. I dread to think how you'd react to any real smears.

A statement like "every time Pakistan do badly match-fixing is and will be thrown at them" is massively over the top and only really has relevance after the relatively recent cases of fixing. Pakistan have long been one of the most fascinatingly inconsistent and mercurial sides around (less so their current batting lineup), that's part of what of what makes them exciting.

Sometimes it isn't strictly necessary to politicize everything in sport (or indeed elsewhere); there are quite enough agendas on this board as it is.

Allez; Woolmer's death was only suspicious to complete idiots ( the Jamaican police and media)and the utterly misiniformed (those informed by them). I know the pathologist who broke the official version and he did it by by saying exactly what I suspected had happened from the start.

Woolmer's death was blood obviously natuarla causes from the get go. After all his jewellery left no marks indicative of a struggle. Worst of all, his body was wedged against the bathroom door from the inside. How the bloody hell could the killer have got out if he had murdered him in that position. (Lividity or hypostastis shows that the body had not been moved.) That means unless the killer had mastered the art of walking through closed doors or walls, it was damn obvious from straight forward investigative work that murder could be eliminated by Scene of (Non-)Crime Analysis.

That should have prevented the pathology cock-up. A qualified pathologist Ere Sheshiah appears to know less about forensic pathology than I do. It is basic FP knowledge that there are special techniques for dissecting neck tissue. If you dissect same as other tissue, it produces marks indicative of strangulation. I knew that, but apparently Sheshiah did not. Nat Cary did and it was soon blown sky high.

It was patently obvious to remotely competent police and scientists that this was never murder and as for Panorama, what a pathetic load of arseholes to broadcast that crap after the truth was available. There was not a whit of credible evidence ever that it was murder and the Jamaican Police and cjs and PCB ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for besmirching the names of Inzamam and Mohammed Youssef in particular - Panorama even more.

Regarding the accustations against Pakistan, I speak to cricket writers a lot and they are suspicious of any below average performance by Pakistan. Hindsight is often a dangerous thing.

Gyan still can't take penalties

The two Ayew brothers are very good

EMP wrote:Allez; Woolmer's death was only suspicious to complete idiots ( the Jamaican police and media)and the utterly misiniformed (those informed by them). I know the pathologist who broke the official version and he did it by by saying exactly what I suspected had happened from the start.

Woolmer's death was blood obviously natuarla causes from the get go. After all his jewellery left no marks indicative of a struggle. Worst of all, his body was wedged against the bathroom door from the inside. How the bloody hell could the killer have got out if he had murdered him in that position. (Lividity or hypostastis shows that the body had not been moved.) That means unless the killer had mastered the art of walking through closed doors or walls, it was damn obvious from straight forward investigative work that murder could be eliminated by Scene of (Non-)Crime Analysis.

That should have prevented the pathology cock-up. A qualified pathologist Ere Sheshiah appears to know less about forensic pathology than I do. It is basic FP knowledge that there are special techniques for dissecting neck tissue. If you dissect same as other tissue, it produces marks indicative of strangulation. I knew that, but apparently Sheshiah did not. Nat Cary did and it was soon blown sky high.

It was patently obvious to remotely competent police and scientists that this was never murder and as for Panorama, what a pathetic load of arseholes to broadcast that crap after the truth was available. There was not a whit of credible evidence ever that it was murder and the Jamaican Police and cjs and PCB ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for besmirching the names of Inzamam and Mohammed Youssef in particular - Panorama even more.

Regarding the accustations against Pakistan, I speak to cricket writers a lot and they are suspicious of any below average performance by Pakistan. Hindsight is often a dangerous thing.

I can't pretend to hobnob with them as a matter of course but I do have a cousin who's a cricket journalist and he certainly doesn't trade in those kind of prejudiced generalities, I presume therefore he's the exception. But without that hobbyhorse you wouldn't have your angle I guess, so hey ho.

Nor am I anything like as expert on Woolmer's death as you are but as I understood it any obvious suspects would have been an angry fan or more likely unrelated organized crime, rather than anything to do with the team itself.

Anyway, on topic ze Zambians have happarently now scored a screamer. The favourites never make it in this tournament, do they.

Allez les rouges wrote:

EMP wrote:Allez; Woolmer's death was only suspicious to complete idiots ( the Jamaican police and media)and the utterly misiniformed (those informed by them). I know the pathologist who broke the official version and he did it by by saying exactly what I suspected had happened from the start.

Woolmer's death was blood obviously natuarla causes from the get go. After all his jewellery left no marks indicative of a struggle. Worst of all, his body was wedged against the bathroom door from the inside. How the bloody hell could the killer have got out if he had murdered him in that position. (Lividity or hypostastis shows that the body had not been moved.) That means unless the killer had mastered the art of walking through closed doors or walls, it was damn obvious from straight forward investigative work that murder could be eliminated by Scene of (Non-)Crime Analysis.

That should have prevented the pathology cock-up. A qualified pathologist Ere Sheshiah appears to know less about forensic pathology than I do. It is basic FP knowledge that there are special techniques for dissecting neck tissue. If you dissect same as other tissue, it produces marks indicative of strangulation. I knew that, but apparently Sheshiah did not. Nat Cary did and it was soon blown sky high.

It was patently obvious to remotely competent police and scientists that this was never murder and as for Panorama, what a pathetic load of arseholes to broadcast that crap after the truth was available. There was not a whit of credible evidence ever that it was murder and the Jamaican Police and cjs and PCB ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for besmirching the names of Inzamam and Mohammed Youssef in particular - Panorama even more.

Regarding the accustations against Pakistan, I speak to cricket writers a lot and they are suspicious of any below average performance by Pakistan. Hindsight is often a dangerous thing.

I can't pretend to hobnob with them as a matter of course but I do have a cousin who's a cricket journalist and he certainly doesn't trade in those kind of prejudiced generalities, I presume therefore he's the exception. But without that hobbyhorse you wouldn't have your angle I guess, so hey ho.

Nor am I anything like as expert on Woolmer's death as you are but as I understood it any obvious suspects would have been an angry fan or more likely unrelated organized crime, rather than anything to do with the team itself.

Anyway, on topic ze Zambians have happarently now scored a screamer. The favourites never make it in this tournament, do they.

I'm actually saying the opposite. Pakistan should not be slagged off like I hear from others. That's the point of saying what I did. Regarding Woolmer, the point is there was never any credible evidence that it was murder, so nobody should have been suspected at all, but the police records indicate that they were obsessed with the Pakistan team. They were even fingerprinted and DNA tested before being allowed to leave - scandalous in the circumstances. If there was any reasonable grounds to suspect murder fair enough, investigate every line of inquiry, but then't and it was fixated on the Pakistanis. It was a damn stupid inquiry and heads should have rolled for it. I would have fired whoever came up with that idiotic case-scenario. I'm amazed the PCB let that system off the hook. They should have sued the arses off the Jamaican Police and cjs for that. Had they investigated other lines of inquiry they might have fared better, but they didn't. The South African betting angle emerged but was not investigated like the Pakistanis were,, but let's leave it there or move it to a cricket thread.

Regarding AACN, absolutely delighted for Zambia. They are owed one for one of football's biggest disgraces ever - the villains of which being a previous Zambian government. I hope they win it!

Ivory Coast v Mali. Pele was just introduced to the crowd and was given a great reception

Crowd here are still unfairly booing Alain Giresse and it isn't just because Mali beat Gabon. He was misquoted to cause trouble and it has with Gabonese people.

I take it that renowned expert on African football Rosicky didn't watch Zambia beat Ghana and is boycotting Ivory Coast v Mali on principle.

Ivory Coast 1-0. Gervinho

EMP wrote:I take it that renowned expert on African football Rosicky didn't watch Zambia beat Ghana and is boycotting Ivory Coast v Mali on principle.

I hear it was another packed stadium...

Rosicky wrote:

EMP wrote:I take it that renowned expert on African football Rosicky didn't watch Zambia beat Ghana and is boycotting Ivory Coast v Mali on principle.

I hear it was another packed stadium...

Ticket prices here are expensive compared to cost of living. Libreville is ridiculously expensive, but considering Gabon ewent out crowd is not bad. Did you see Gervinho's goal. Obviously reason Arsenal won't win anything.

Gervinho's goal was Henry like. Happy for him but gutted he won't be making the 1st leg vs Milan next week.

This is the final I wanted all along - 2 very good footballing sides. Super excited!

I'm shocked the joker that is Rosicky hasn't moaned about it being a low scoring Semis.

The Professor wrote:Gervinho's goal was Henry like. Happy for him but gutted he won't be making the 1st leg vs Milan next week.

This is the final I wanted all along - 2 very good footballing sides. Super excited!

I'm shocked the joker that is Rosicky hasn't moaned about it being a low scoring Semis.

Give him time. I'm sure he will along with another ignorant bitching session about poor attendance. The cost of living in both Equatorial Guinea and Gabon is ridiculous when contrasted to the standard of life here. Ticket prices are more expensive than in ghana for example and with higher costs and financial meltdown hitting, ordinary people have different priorities.Instead of blaming local people - the easy and ignorant thing to do - try pointing the finger at COCAN and maybe CAF. They set the prices and venue. There are amny problems with the competition this time and not the pathetic bitchy stuff you hear on here.

Cracking goal from Gervinho

Him and The Ox

The Professor wrote:Gervinho's goal was Henry like. Happy for him but gutted he won't be making the 1st leg vs Milan next week.

This is the final I wanted all along - 2 very good footballing sides. Super excited!

I'm shocked the joker that is Rosicky hasn't moaned about it being a low scoring Semis.

I loved that goal although very unlike him but it was nice to see that sort of directness and clinical finishing from him.

I love that Zambia reached the final and I hope they win because they have been playing great and have been building on last ACN so they deserve this for the hard work. However I don't think Ivory Coast is the best team for a final because they are very professional and have been for years now. If they get ahead they will close the game down as they did against Mali. So I hope Zambia score first or at least that Ivory Coast doesn't get a goal early on.

Final is in a few hours time. Been with the Zambians. Met the current Minister for Sport there and ahd extensive interview with him. Got a world exclusive from him. Anyone bother watching last night. Mali clearly cared.

Libreville Stadium is pretty full tonight and there's still an hour to go kick off. I thought the renowned expert (incessant bitcher on all things related to the ACN assured us that the Gabonese were only interested in Gabon play. The President of Zambia chartered flights to enable Zambians to follow the Chipolopolo in person. Try watching the match Rosicky, you might learn something.

Am watching zzzzzzzzzz

And that response shows that what you know about African football can be written on a postage stamp in 50 billion font size! By the way how many empty seats have you counted?

Hopefully the Gabonese won't shoot down the Zambian team's plane again.

Murray wrote:Hopefully the Gabonese won't shoot down the Zambian team's plane again.

That remark is in very poor taste. That was the worst plane-disaster to affect a national football team. Those players and others deserve some respect.

This game is a fitting end to the tournament

That was horrendous from Drogba.

This game gets better, what a miss. What a game huh EMP ?

Penalties taken by a guy in an Orange shirt...never a good idea. Has Drogba won an AFC yet? IC deserves one though.

Considering the favourite never wins, I reckon it will be Zambia in the end.

Rosicky wrote:

This game gets better, what a miss. What a game huh EMP ?

Actually it is a good game. The touches and skill of the Zambians - Katongo in particular is pretty good. I wouldn't expect you to understand as skillful Africans doesn't suit your pathetic agenda. Gervinho went over a bit easily and it was a dreadful penalty by Drogba, but there's been plenty of skill and attacking football, especially by Zambia.

Rosicky wrote:This game is a fitting end to the tournament

And that post is fitting from a fuckwit whose knowledge of African football is grossly overestimated at fuck all.

EMP wrote:

Murray wrote:Hopefully the Gabonese won't shoot down the Zambian team's plane again.

That remark is in very poor taste. That was the worst plane-disaster to affect a national football team. Those players and others deserve some respect.

It's not in poor taste if it's true.