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Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

COTR

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Post n°31

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by COTR Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:00 pm

Kimbo wrote:

COTR wrote:
Andy Carroll played well in about three games for us last season. He was an unmitigated disaster with almost no redeeming features.

Can he turn it around ? I certainly wouldn't be placing any money on it.

I would much prefer to focus on getting a footballing centre forward in to build the team around. Carroll is pretty much a lost cause if you want to focus on quick and fluid football. Rodgers knows this, hence the comments.

Does Dalglish not get any blame for destroying Carroll as a footballer?

Not from me. Dalglish had the team playing good football. The flaw was the strikers couldn't finish anything (cracking the woodwork on a record number of occasions).

Carroll is simply a donkey who can't fit into a footballing side. He'll always get in the way and destroy rather than create.

Some footballers are naturally talented, some aren't. There was nothing Dalglish could do about that. His error was not in his treatment of Carroll, it was in signing him in the first place and expecting to build a side intent on keeping the ball around him.

110%

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Post n°32

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by 110% Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:02 pm

Kimbo wrote:

110% wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

COTR wrote:
Andy Carroll played well in about three games for us last season. He was an unmitigated disaster with almost no redeeming features.

Can he turn it around ? I certainly wouldn't be placing any money on it.

I would much prefer to focus on getting a footballing centre forward in to build the team around. Carroll is pretty much a lost cause if you want to focus on quick and fluid football. Rodgers knows this, hence the comments.

Does Dalglish not get any blame for destroying Carroll as a footballer?

Carroll fans blame Dalglish, but then why was he good in the last few games of the season? I read that he was a boozer, and I said months ago his fitness looks shit. Instead of muscling players out of the way, he struggled to even get to the ball before the defenders. At the end of the season he wanted to go to the Euros so he worked on his fitness and looked a lot better. This season will he be a boozer or a professional, only time will tell.

Well don't Liverpool blame his lack of fitness on Newcastle? Even though he looked very fit and powerful here.

I think he felt he had made it when he was bought for 35 million and basically didn't work as hard when he arrived at Liverpool (was also injured or coming back from injury I think, so should be working harder than the other players). Add to that his boozing and we got a half-fit long-haired twat who thinks he's awesome sitting on the bench wondering why he can't get a game.

worms rises

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Post n°33

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by worms rises Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:15 pm

COTR wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

COTR wrote:
Andy Carroll played well in about three games for us last season. He was an unmitigated disaster with almost no redeeming features.

Can he turn it around ? I certainly wouldn't be placing any money on it.

I would much prefer to focus on getting a footballing centre forward in to build the team around. Carroll is pretty much a lost cause if you want to focus on quick and fluid football. Rodgers knows this, hence the comments.

Does Dalglish not get any blame for destroying Carroll as a footballer?

Not from me. Dalglish had the team playing good football. The flaw was the strikers couldn't finish anything (cracking the woodwork on a record number of occasions).

Carroll is simply a donkey who can't fit into a footballing side. He'll always get in the way and destroy rather than create.

Some footballers are naturally talented, some aren't. There was nothing Dalglish could do about that. His error was not in his treatment of Carroll, it was in signing him in the first place and expecting to build a side intent on keeping the ball around him.

Spoiler:

fcb

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Post n°34

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by fcb Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:34 pm

Good thing Liverpool already have a replacement for Carroll.

Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013 - Page 2 Mighty-red-500x453

Kimbo

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Post n°35

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by Kimbo Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:52 pm

So that's what Bianchi, I mean Borini, looks like.

I would take Carroll back if the fee was reasonable and if he took a pay cut. The player coater describes is the one ruined and misused by KKK, not the one we saw at Newcastle, if he was to work under a proper manager again I'm sure he could show his abilities.

COTR

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Post n°36

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by COTR Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:08 pm

Kimbo wrote:So that's what Bianchi, I mean Borini, looks like.

I would take Carroll back if the fee was reasonable and if he took a pay cut. The player coater describes is the one ruined and misused by KKK, not the one we saw at Newcastle, if he was to work under a proper manager again I'm sure he could show his abilities.

You are grossly overstating the power of a manager to make a player look bad Kimbo

Carroll's inadequacies are solely down to his own lack of talent.

Kimbo

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Post n°37

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by Kimbo Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:20 pm

COTR wrote:

Kimbo wrote:So that's what Bianchi, I mean Borini, looks like.

I would take Carroll back if the fee was reasonable and if he took a pay cut. The player coater describes is the one ruined and misused by KKK, not the one we saw at Newcastle, if he was to work under a proper manager again I'm sure he could show his abilities.

You are grossly overstating the power of a manager to make a player look bad Kimbo

Carroll's inadequacies are solely down to his own lack of talent.

There are clearly differences between his time at Newcastle and his time at Liverpool, at Newcastle he was all action, looked powerful, and ran for the full 90 minutes(despite Liverpools claims that he did no physical training here), his control was not poor, and neither was his passing. But at Liverpool he looked kind of sedentary, he just stayed in the middle getting the ball hammered into him by your awesome technical footballers. Obviously it is ultimately up to Carroll to perform, but playing under a cheerleader from the 80s that doesn't know how to use him, and doesn't have much tactical knowledge, can't help.

I'd also question his training, just as Liverpool questioned his training here. Everyone says he looks unfit for you, so he has gone from a player known for being an athletic beast, to being a player struggling for fitness. What's that all about?

Isco Benny

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Post n°38

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by Isco Benny Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:28 pm

LIVERPOOL 
What they need: Players who can slot seamlessly into Brendan Rodgers' football philosophy.

In many ways, the return of Alberto Aquilani could be one of the most important deals of the summer for Liverpool, with the Italian's composure in possession suitable for Rodgers' plans. Swansea's Joe Allen is an obvious transfer rumour, while 27-year-old Steven Davis offers value after rejecting a new contract at Rangers. The departure of Dirk Kuyt - and the fact that the club scored fewer goals than relegated Blackburn last season - also puts a new striker on the shopping list, with Demba Ba's release clause still waiting to be activated.

What they're likely to get: Following the lavish and somewhat foolish fees FSG have splurged in the last 18 months, Rodgers will have limited funds to spend this summer, highlighted by the club's refusal to enter a wage war with Spurs over Gylfi Sigurdsson. A move for Allen would make sense (a tempting offer would negate any gentleman's agreement), with the midfielder an impressive exponent of the new manager's system at Swansea, while Scott Sinclair could offer trickery on the wing. Liverpool can't attract top talent without Champions League football, so approaching Europe's current elite for possible loan deals could be a sound option. Barcelona's speedy winger Cristian Tello has been mentioned.

What's been said? Brendan Rodgers: "For me it will take a bit of time to introduce how I want to play and the philosophy I want to introduce. I believe there is still a bit of work to do in maybe getting three or four key players in, to allow us play that way. We talked finances. The reality is that I'm not going to have the money that was spent in the last year or so. But, at the same time, there's going to be money there to make a difference."

Isco Benny

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Post n°39

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by Isco Benny Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:31 pm

summary from F365. Sharing is caring

COTR

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Post n°40

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by COTR Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:32 pm

Doesn't have much tactical knowledge ? You are criticising the tactical knowledge of one of the best footballers to ever play in the English game, who has also been a multiple title winning manager, who was supported by a very good coach in Steve Clarke.

P.S

He isn't unfit at all. Just very very lazy. It's laughable to criticise the fitness staff at a club as big as Liverpool. Ridiculous excuse. He'll have just about the best facilities sports science can offer thrown at him. It's all on him if he can't improve under these conditions.

Kimbo

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Post n°41

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by Kimbo Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:44 pm

COTR wrote:Doesn't have much tactical knowledge ? You are criticising the tactical knowledge of one of the best footballers to ever play in the English game, who has also been a multiple title winning manager, who was supported by a very good coach in Steve Clarke.

P.S

He isn't unfit at all. Just very very lazy. It's laughable to criticise the fitness staff at a club as big as Liverpool. Ridiculous excuse. He'll have just about the best facilities sports science can offer thrown at him. It's all on him if he can't improve under these conditions.

It's also ridiculous to question Carroll's fitness training at Newcastle when he looked like a proper athlete here. tongue

Why did Dalglish fail if he has such great tactical knowledge?

Luis

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Post n°42

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by Luis Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:44 pm

I think it would be a silly move to loan Carroll out.

I don't know what that would achieve really. It's not like we have bags of strikers as it is. We have Suarez who is likely to face a 20 game ban for John Terry calling Anton Ferdinand a black conte. So that leaves us with Bellamy who has no knees left and Eccleston, who is shite.

Carroll did look useless and uninterested for large parts of last season but the system we played didn't really make any sense. Presumably, Dalglish bought Downing to provide crosses for Carroll, yet Dalglish did daft things like take Downing off when Carroll was on or drop Carroll after a good performance. Dalglish didn't seem to have a lot of ideas about what he was doing.

Towards the end of the season Carroll started to perk up, got a few goals, worked hard and carried that form into the Euros where he was harshly dropped for the next Pele.

For him to come back to Liverpool and be told he's going out on loan would be a ginormous smack in his Geordie bollocks.

1) Why loan and not sell? If Rodgers doesn't think he'll fit into his plans then what's the point loaning him out, possibly paying his wages and just giving ourselves a temporary solution.

2) Why the fucking hell would AC Milan want Carroll? I mean, really, why?

3) To spend £35 million on a player and then sell him/loan him and replace him with some 21 year old Roma striker who couldn't get on the pitch at Chelsea and has a largely underwhelming goal-scoring record seems completely and utterly stupid.

The B-Rod should have told Carroll he's a real special guy and given him a big Irish cuddle as soon as he saw him. If the rumours are true and he doesn't want Carroll sticking around, I'll be a bit concerned as to what direction we're heading in. All seems a bit of a mess to me and to add insult to injury we might sign another flavour of the month in Dempsey who is now 30 years of age. Have we learnt nothing from the signings of Carroll and Downing?

COTR

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Post n°43

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by COTR Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:12 pm

Kimbo wrote:

COTR wrote:Doesn't have much tactical knowledge ? You are criticising the tactical knowledge of one of the best footballers to ever play in the English game, who has also been a multiple title winning manager, who was supported by a very good coach in Steve Clarke.

P.S

He isn't unfit at all. Just very very lazy. It's laughable to criticise the fitness staff at a club as big as Liverpool. Ridiculous excuse. He'll have just about the best facilities sports science can offer thrown at him. It's all on him if he can't improve under these conditions.

It's also ridiculous to question Carroll's fitness training at Newcastle when he looked like a proper athlete here.

Why did Dalglish fail if he has such great tactical knowledge?

Isn't that obvious scratch

He bought a load of rubbish in Carroll, Henderson, Adam, Downing

Kimbo

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Post n°44

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by Kimbo Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:15 pm

COTR wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

COTR wrote:Doesn't have much tactical knowledge ? You are criticising the tactical knowledge of one of the best footballers to ever play in the English game, who has also been a multiple title winning manager, who was supported by a very good coach in Steve Clarke.

P.S

He isn't unfit at all. Just very very lazy. It's laughable to criticise the fitness staff at a club as big as Liverpool. Ridiculous excuse. He'll have just about the best facilities sports science can offer thrown at him. It's all on him if he can't improve under these conditions.

It's also ridiculous to question Carroll's fitness training at Newcastle when he looked like a proper athlete here.

Why did Dalglish fail if he has such great tactical knowledge?

Isn't that obvious

He bought a load of rubbish in Carroll, Henderson, Adam, Downing

So you believe he got the best out of his squad?

COTR

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Post n°45

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by COTR Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:17 pm

How many questions do you want to ask ?

I said he should be sacked

That doesn't change the fact that Andy Carroll is not a very good footballer

Kimbo

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Post n°46

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by Kimbo Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:07 pm

Do you think he was shit when he was at Newcastle?

The Chosen Glenn

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Post n°47

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by The Chosen Glenn Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:45 pm

if Dalglish "ruined" Carroll then the speed at which he "ruined" him must be commended.

Kimbo

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Post n°48

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by Kimbo Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:10 pm

Glendre Gingas-Beardas wrote:if Dalglish "ruined" Carroll then the speed at which he "ruined" him must be commended.

Well he took Newcastle from 2nd to 13th in a season. tongue

He has a talent for destruction.

The Chosen Glenn

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Post n°49

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by The Chosen Glenn Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:28 pm

he also lead Newcastle TO 2nd Kimbo

I get the feeling you're going to struggle to be impartial, it seems more like you're looking for a lazy opportunity to bash Dalglish rather than looking for answers to a genuine question.

Carroll looked good for Newcastle, he failed to adapt to a different style. Dalglish failed to get him to adapt. Perhaps because he thought he had made it and didn't need to learn a new style, he looked much better in the final weeks of the season and in the Euros. Credit to Dalglish for this?

messiah

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Post n°50

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by messiah Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:07 pm

its a pity a young manager like BR won't be getting the money he needs to buy the players to fit his style because kenny wasted so much money on at the very most good players can't see any of them ever being anything more, and liverpool has a good defense just need a few players in midfield and up front. don't get the borini link either he will want to play as a striker and that saurez best position

Kimbo

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Post n°51

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by Kimbo Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:17 pm

Glendre Gingas-Beardas wrote:he also lead Newcastle TO 2nd Kimbo

I get the feeling you're going to struggle to be impartial, it seems more like you're looking for a lazy opportunity to bash Dalglish rather than looking for answers to a genuine question.

Carroll looked good for Newcastle, he failed to adapt to a different style. Dalglish failed to get him to adapt. Perhaps because he thought he had made it and didn't need to learn a new style, he looked much better in the final weeks of the season and in the Euros. Credit to Dalglish for this?

He took over when we were 4th halfway through the season, and yes we finished 2nd. Then he dismantled the team Keegan had built and tried to change the style, and took us to 13th. Nothing to do with bias, those are the facts and they speak for themselves.

The Chosen Glenn

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Post n°52

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by The Chosen Glenn Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:21 pm

Kimbo wrote:

Glendre Gingas-Beardas wrote:he also lead Newcastle TO 2nd Kimbo

I get the feeling you're going to struggle to be impartial, it seems more like you're looking for a lazy opportunity to bash Dalglish rather than looking for answers to a genuine question.

Carroll looked good for Newcastle, he failed to adapt to a different style. Dalglish failed to get him to adapt. Perhaps because he thought he had made it and didn't need to learn a new style, he looked much better in the final weeks of the season and in the Euros. Credit to Dalglish for this?

He took over when we were 4th halfway through the season, and yes we finished 2nd. Then he dismantled the team Keegan had built and tried to change the style, and took us to 13th. Nothing to do with bias, those are the facts and they speak for themselves.

does the fact that Shearer missed most of that season through injury speak for itself?

Kimbo

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Post n°53

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by Kimbo Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:23 pm

Glendre Gingas-Beardas wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Glendre Gingas-Beardas wrote:he also lead Newcastle TO 2nd Kimbo

I get the feeling you're going to struggle to be impartial, it seems more like you're looking for a lazy opportunity to bash Dalglish rather than looking for answers to a genuine question.

Carroll looked good for Newcastle, he failed to adapt to a different style. Dalglish failed to get him to adapt. Perhaps because he thought he had made it and didn't need to learn a new style, he looked much better in the final weeks of the season and in the Euros. Credit to Dalglish for this?

He took over when we were 4th halfway through the season, and yes we finished 2nd. Then he dismantled the team Keegan had built and tried to change the style, and took us to 13th. Nothing to do with bias, those are the facts and they speak for themselves.

does the fact that Shearer missed most of that season through injury speak for itself?

Is that why he signed 36 year old Ian Rush and sold Beardsley, Ferdinand, and Asprilla? Erm

The Chosen Glenn

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Post n°54

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by The Chosen Glenn Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:29 pm

I don't know whose decision that was, does he get credit for signings like Gary Speed and Shay Given?

Asprilla was shite, Beardsley was 36?

Kimbo

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Post n°55

Re: Liverpool FC Thread 2012/2013

by Kimbo Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:35 pm

Glendre Gingas-Beardas wrote:I don't know whose decision that was, does he get credit for signings like Gary Speed and Shay Given?

Dalglish did make some good signings, there was also Hamann and Solano. BUT he had a scattergun approach and pissed away plenty of money aswell, Des Hamilson, Pistone, Andreas Anderson, Guivarc'h etc, so was it skill or luck? Either way he did not get the best out of his players and is remember as a disaster. <Ale>