2012-2013 Champions League/Bundesliga Final, Wembley Stadium

Perhaps iniesta,pirlo and xavi can escape criticism because they have proven a number of times that they can do their best "when it is most important", while bastian has shown the opposite.

messiah wrote:Perhaps iniesta,pirlo and xavi can escape criticism because they have proven a number of times that they can do their best "when it is most important", while bastian has shown the opposite.

i BITE

so have the 4 games (2x juve, 2x barca) lost on importance


schweinsteiger is an all around midfielder, xavi or pirlo just pass kings

schweinsteigers best years yet to come, while xavi and pirlo way past it

messiah wrote:Perhaps iniesta,pirlo and xavi can escape criticism because they have proven a number of times that they can do their best "when it is most important", while bastian has shown the opposite.

I saw xavi and iniesta do their best in the semi-final when they were 3-0 down, they proceeded to lose 7-0. Did they not consider it important enough?

How has bastian shown the opposite exactly, by being consistently the best player in the bayern team, whereas for barca it has been messi?

What robben did is only a taste of what messi has been doing for xavi and iniesta the last few seasons, only messi would have made it look more comfortable by scoring 2 or 3 of the earlier chances. Then xavi and inesta could have passed the ball around without trying to score, and you could point to the 70% possession as an indication that they've been brilliant.

110% wrote:

messiah wrote:Perhaps iniesta,pirlo and xavi can escape criticism because they have proven a number of times that they can do their best "when it is most important", while bastian has shown the opposite.

I saw xavi and iniesta do their best in the semi-final when they were 3-0 down, they proceeded to lose 7-0. Did they not consider it important enough?

How has bastian shown the opposite exactly, by being consistently the best player in the bayern team, whereas for barca it has been messi?

What robben did is only a taste of what messi has been doing for xavi and iniesta the last few seasons, only messi would have made it look more comfortable by scoring 2 or 3 of the earlier chances. Then xavi and inesta could have passed the ball around without trying to score, and you could point to the 70% possession as an indication that they've been brilliant.

Oh OK, so only this season counts.

Gary do I need to go back and find quotes by you saying messi is nothing without xavi and iniesta.

antari, super , disco and messiah are spot on , of course

Schweini and Lahm may be good players who have the odd excellent performance in them

that does NOT mean that they are LEADERS, though

players who regularly stamp their authority on games

they simply do NOT

this has nothing to do with Effe or Kahn, shouting or being quiet

Pirlo or Zidane were hardly vocal either but more than able to impose themselves

Schweini and Lahm are simply NOT

they are surrounded by the likes of Robben, Ribery, Müller, Dante and most importantly SAMMER on the bench

put them back into the Mannschaft

WITHOUT Sammer, Dante and Co

and you will see the same bloodless performances as against Sweden (in the second half)

I am as excited as the next GerMAN about the future of German football

but the truth is

our chance of WINNING the next World Cup with the likes of Lahm and Schweini "leading" the way under Löw

amounts to 1%

a Frings and a Ballack still had the balls to DEFY Löw

neither Lahm, Schweini, Neuer nor Merte, Özil or Götze have THAT X-factor

the good news is, Müller, Hummels, Weidenfeller and Reus are in the Frings/Ballack mold

but it's EXACTLY the "failed generation" of Schweini and Co

that IS and will be our Achilles heel in the future

You always contradict yourself. You went on about those players being 'unproven' because they hadn't imposed themselves on a CL or Euro / WC semi final (and beyond), and now that they've done that in the most impressive fashion (how in God's name can you be more dominant than Schweinsteiger was against Juve and Barcelona, two of Europe's best, most decorated midfields?), you STILL continue with your nonsense.

Your biggest problem has always been that you judged players based on sympathy. Sorry lad, but the 'failed generation' won't stick anymore, it's history now. They achieved what your darlings Ballack and Frings failed to do. They won the European cup, and they did it with a Bundesliga team after a 12 years drought.

P.S.: explain to me this: if it's the 'foreigners' who make Schweinsteiger look good, how come that Bayern looked the worse without him playing? How come they lost to Arsenal and almost bottled the second round when he wasn't playing? And what about that other darling of yours, Neuer? Would we still be talking about a Bayern CL win if he hadn't saved their arse a dozen times on Saturday, with some world class saves? Neuer, who already was amongst Bayern's best players in last year's final?

messiah wrote:

110% wrote:

messiah wrote:Perhaps iniesta,pirlo and xavi can escape criticism because they have proven a number of times that they can do their best "when it is most important", while bastian has shown the opposite.

I saw xavi and iniesta do their best in the semi-final when they were 3-0 down, they proceeded to lose 7-0. Did they not consider it important enough?

How has bastian shown the opposite exactly, by being consistently the best player in the bayern team, whereas for barca it has been messi?

What robben did is only a taste of what messi has been doing for xavi and iniesta the last few seasons, only messi would have made it look more comfortable by scoring 2 or 3 of the earlier chances. Then xavi and inesta could have passed the ball around without trying to score, and you could point to the 70% possession as an indication that they've been brilliant.

Oh OK, so only this season counts.

Gary do I need to go back and find quotes by you saying messi is nothing without xavi and iniesta.

Please do so, and how about actual quotes, not some random "it's somewhere in la liga thread" BS that you normally come up with as your proof that someone on here wrote it.

Worms searched back through about 4 years of my posts and couldn't find anything to take the piss out of, let's see if you have more luck. Good hunting

110% wrote:

messiah wrote:

110% wrote:

messiah wrote:Perhaps iniesta,pirlo and xavi can escape criticism because they have proven a number of times that they can do their best "when it is most important", while bastian has shown the opposite.

I saw xavi and iniesta do their best in the semi-final when they were 3-0 down, they proceeded to lose 7-0. Did they not consider it important enough?

How has bastian shown the opposite exactly, by being consistently the best player in the bayern team, whereas for barca it has been messi?

What robben did is only a taste of what messi has been doing for xavi and iniesta the last few seasons, only messi would have made it look more comfortable by scoring 2 or 3 of the earlier chances. Then xavi and inesta could have passed the ball around without trying to score, and you could point to the 70% possession as an indication that they've been brilliant.

Oh OK, so only this season counts.

Gary do I need to go back and find quotes by you saying messi is nothing without xavi and iniesta.

Please do so, and how about actual quotes, not some random "it's somewhere in la liga thread" BS that you normally come up with as your proof that someone on here wrote it.

Worms searched back through about 4 years of my posts and couldn't find anything to take the piss out of, let's see if you have more luck. Good hunting

If I was a fool and cared enough, I would.
But you know you did, as does everyone else, only persons who didn't male that rather stupid statement were barca fans.

As if they only play for barca and international football doesn't exist.

I know I didn't. You've basically admitted that you can't find any quotes since they don't exist and you are a liar. Well done

110% wrote:I know I didn't. You've basically admitted that you can't find any quotes since they don't exist and you are a liar. Well done

Do you really think I would care enough to go through all your post to find a quote.

Simple question, does international football exist?

messiah wrote:

110% wrote:I know I didn't. You've basically admitted that you can't find any quotes since they don't exist and you are a liar. Well done

Do you really think I would care enough to go through all your post to find a quote.

Simple question, does international football exist?

Simple question, are you a liar?

110% wrote:

messiah wrote:

110% wrote:I know I didn't. You've basically admitted that you can't find any quotes since they don't exist and you are a liar. Well done

Do you really think I would care enough to go through all your post to find a quote.

Simple question, does international football exist?

Simple question, are you a liar?

OK, thought so, such a easily defeated argument

To think I cared enough to spend anytime looking for anything related to anyone on here, I have a life.

messiah wrote:
Gary do I need to go back and find quotes by you saying messi is nothing without xavi and iniesta.

You offered to do it. I agreed because I know you are a liar. So either provide a quote or stop lying

That was said tongue and cheek, cause you like I know you have said more than once that messi is nothing without xavi and iniesta based on his performances for Argentina.

Whether you admit to it are not, I don't care, you know its true. Lol

messiah wrote:
That was said tongue and cheek, cause you like I know you have said more than once that messi is nothing without xavi and iniesta based on his performances for Argentina.

Whether you admit to it are not, I don't care, you know its true. Lol

Whether you admit it or not, you are a lying sack of shit. Just to be clear I am not saying this tongue in cheek

You remember that time you said zidane was miles better than iniesta, I would find your quote but I don't have time. Anyway you know it's true, you said it loads of times

blutgraetsche wrote:Re Reus

I suspect that he'd be a very very good 'false 9', too, but Allez disagrees with me on this.

Ahem. A "disagreement" sieht anders aus Alter

I disagree with you that Wiese is better than Adler, that Boateng doesn't have defensive limitations.... here I'm just not convinced yet and I hope I'm wrong. And same goes for Müller and Götze (most definitely for Özil, if he's tried again as a false 9) or any others tried in that role – it's a very hard one to pull off if you're not Messi. Without making the sarky point of some posters on the Grauniad blog wishing Götze luck at dealing with all those crosses into the box, high balls etc., even Spain struggled with Cesc as the 9 – you need a range of abilities and, usually, physical attributes to play that pivot role even as a false one. And usually there's the risk of becoming predictable and easy to defend against if you put someone without physical presence like Götze there. It's a concern after Klose and Gomez (hell, it's even a concern when the latter plays) particularly against top teams because who knows whether Volland, Kruse or whoever would ever be able to step up.

On the other hand, remember how van Persie was described as a controversial "false 9" when Wenger initially put him there and how silly that seems now. If Reus can be similarly converted to a genuine striker, and there's no reason it should necessarily be too late to be a possibility, that would be awesome, because in the long run (actually medium term max) yes, some way needs to be found to make a combination of all those great attacking midfielders without Klose/Gomez work. Unless someone really makes the next step at centre-forward, which I suspect won't happen.

Watched the final in Berlin and was more disappointed even than I expected, but happy for Dons Jupp and Bastian. Couldn't deserve it more and yeah they had to lose that loser tag this time – just hard to see when this chance will come round again for Dortmund, so a shame in that sense, as impossible to disagree with any of Bernd's assessment of the fundamental lack of competitiveness in German football in that sense.

Allez les rouges wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:Re Reus

I suspect that he'd be a very very good 'false 9', too, but Allez disagrees with me on this.

Ahem. A "disagreement" sieht anders aus Alter

I disagree with you that Wiese is better than Adler, that Boateng doesn't have defensive limitations.... here I'm just not convinced yet and I hope I'm wrong. And same goes for Müller and Götze (most definitely for Özil, if he's tried again as a false 9) or any others tried in that role – it's a very hard one to pull off if you're not Messi. Without making the sarky point of some posters on the Grauniad blog wishing Götze luck at dealing with all those crosses into the box, high balls etc., even Spain struggled with Cesc as the 9 – you need a range of abilities and, usually, physical attributes to play that pivot role even as a false one. And usually there's the risk of becoming predictable and easy to defend against if you put someone without physical presence like Götze there. It's a concern after Klose and Gomez (hell, it's even a concern when the latter plays) particularly against top teams because who knows whether Volland, Kruse or whoever would ever be able to step up.

On the other hand, remember how van Persie was described as a controversial "false 9" when Wenger initially put him there and how silly that seems now. If Reus can be similarly converted to a genuine striker, and there's no reason it should necessarily be too late to be a possibility, that would be awesome, because in the long run (actually medium term max) yes, some way needs to be found to make a combination of all those great attacking midfielders without Klose/Gomez work. Unless someone really makes the next step at centre-forward, which I suspect won't happen.

Watched the final in Berlin and was more disappointed even than I expected, but happy for Dons Jupp and Bastian. Couldn't deserve it more and yeah they had to lose that loser tag this time – just hard to see when this chance will come round again for Dortmund, so a shame in that sense, as impossible to disagree with any of Bernd's assessment of the fundamental lack of competitiveness in German football in that sense.

But if they invest the Gotze money and funds from the Lewandowski sale, surely they'll still be competitive in Europe?