Barcelona v Chelsea (The European Classic) (Oct 18 & 31)

S4P wrote:Everybody is missing the important injuries/out of form players we have.

People are saying "Oh Barca are not as good because Eto'o is out and Dinho is out of form" and they're right, it does have an effect on them (hugely).

But very little is made of the fact Chelsea played both games with their 3rd choice keeper. As excellent as Deco's goal may have been, I would've backed Cech to save it.

And Sheva has been very much in and out. By February or March time, I think he'll be 3x as effective as he is at present.

I realise that you aren't without injuries and out of form players. Have you considered that Sheva might never fit in? (no Pirlo and Kaká style players at Chelsea).. I sometimes have my doubts with Zambrotta.. world class, but mediocre at best in our team.

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:

S4P wrote:Everybody is missing the important injuries/out of form players we have.

People are saying "Oh Barca are not as good because Eto'o is out and Dinho is out of form" and they're right, it does have an effect on them (hugely).

But very little is made of the fact Chelsea played both games with their 3rd choice keeper. As excellent as Deco's goal may have been, I would've backed Cech to save it.

And Sheva has been very much in and out. By February or March time, I think he'll be 3x as effective as he is at present.

I realise that you aren't without injuries and out of form players. Have you considered that Sheva might never fit in? (no Pirlo and Kaká style players at Chelsea).. I sometimes have my doubts with Zambrotta.. world class, but mediocre at best in our team.

Oh I understand completely. I just fail to see how some people overlooked the fact that it wasn't just Barca who had key injuries and forwards who were not playing well.

I must say I am very disappointed by Drogba. Having said all this season that he has never dived once (which is true), he then goes out and puts his worse acting performance of the season on.

Still think it was unfair of Rijkaard to basically say that the time-wasting and play-acting was just coming from Chelsea, but hey, it's done and dusted now.

(By the way, I think Jose has really upset 'Mr Cool' Frank Rijkaard in a way nobody has ever done so before)

To be fair Rijkaard never said anything about play acting, that was all Mourinho ..

He did say, correctly in my opinion, that Chelsea broke our rythm by fouling alot (small fouls mostly) and thereby causing a lot of added time, which ended up benefitting one team.

Drogba, what can you say? I have seen worse, eventhough some of the antics were a bit comical.. Like I was saying to Rosy, I think it is because it is the first match of the season where the players (on both sides) were extremely keyed up and using every little thing they thought would gain an advantage..

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:To be fair Rijkaard never said anything about play acting, that was all Mourinho ..

He did say, correctly in my opinion, that Chelsea broke our rythm by fouling alot (small fouls mostly) and thereby causing a lot of added time, which ended up benefitting one team.

Drogba, what can you say? I have seen worse, eventhough some of the antics were a bit comical.. Like I was saying to Rosy, I think it is because it is the first match of the season where the players (on both sides) were extremely keyed up and using every little thing they thought would gain an advantage..

To be honest, most of the Barcelona players have taken it well. I'm sure Rijkaard said something along those lines, but as I have a lack of evidence, I'll assume I misheard/misinterpretted. The only Barca players who haven't taken it well are Motta, Puyol and Edmilson.

Drogba was silly yesterday. OK, Marquez pushed him over, and should've been given a direct red card for it, but Drogba really made a meal of it, as he did one or two other times. In the 2nd half, he played his non-diving game and became much more effective for the team.

I have to say though that Puyol disappointed me. Not for his performance, but for his leadership. The moment a Barcelona player was fouled he would come running over waving imaginary cards. For all that John Terry may try to 'influence' the decision, he doesn't wave imaginary cards. I really hope Puyol doesn't do this frequently, because it would be a shame for the captain of such a great club to do so (and it also influences peoples opinions about a player who, when on his game, can be a brilliant player).

What made me laugh is how sanctimonious the Chelsea players have now become.

Lampard moaning about diving when he did the worst one of the evening but best of all Terry saying how shocking it is to see players running up to the ref and asking for bookings...

... so when Terry ran up to the ref a minute into the 2nd half (following Puyol's foul on Drogba that deserved a booking) what was he saying to the ref then ?

English/Premiership players ask for bookings all the time they just don't do the imaginary card waive that's all - doesn't make it any better.

S4P wrote:

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:To be fair Rijkaard never said anything about play acting, that was all Mourinho ..

He did say, correctly in my opinion, that Chelsea broke our rythm by fouling alot (small fouls mostly) and thereby causing a lot of added time, which ended up benefitting one team.

Drogba, what can you say? I have seen worse, eventhough some of the antics were a bit comical.. Like I was saying to Rosy, I think it is because it is the first match of the season where the players (on both sides) were extremely keyed up and using every little thing they thought would gain an advantage..

To be honest, most of the Barcelona players have taken it well. I'm sure Rijkaard said something along those lines, but as I have a lack of evidence, I'll assume I misheard/misinterpretted. The only Barca players who haven't taken it well are Motta, Puyol and Edmilson.

Drogba was silly yesterday. OK, Marquez pushed him over, and should've been given a direct red card for it, but Drogba really made a meal of it, as he did one or two other times. In the 2nd half, he played his non-diving game and became much more effective for the team.

I have to say though that Puyol disappointed me. Not for his performance, but for his leadership. The moment a Barcelona player was fouled he would come running over waving imaginary cards. For all that John Terry may try to 'influence' the decision, he doesn't wave imaginary cards. I really hope Puyol doesn't do this frequently, because it would be a shame for the captain of such a great club to do so (and it also influences peoples opinions about a player who, when on his game, can be a brilliant player).

Weren't UEFA going to have players who wave imaginary cards booked? Or did they bottle out of that one?

Pierre Littbarski wrote:What made me laugh is how sanctimonious the Chelsea players have now become.

Lampard moaning about diving when he did the worst one of the evening

Not even close mate. Some of the diving was truly shocking. At least Lamps was within a yard of the defender.

Pierre Littbarski wrote: when Terry ran up to the ref a minute into the 2nd half (following Puyol's foul on Drogba that deserved a booking) what was he saying to the ref then ?.

Did you see him wave an imaginary card? No. As captain, they have the right (and are the only person with the right) to talk to the referee on the pitch. I think you're mistaking Terry with Puyol, who did do card waving.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:What made me laugh is how sanctimonious the Chelsea players have now become.

Lampard moaning about diving when he did the worst one of the evening but best of all Terry saying how shocking it is to see players running up to the ref and asking for bookings...

... so when Terry ran up to the ref a minute into the 2nd half (following Puyol's foul on Drogba that deserved a booking) what was he saying to the ref then ?

English/Premiership players ask for bookings all the time they just don't do the imaginary card waive that's all - doesn't make it any better.

Terry was saying: " I say ref that tackle was a tad harsh wasn't it? Could you have a word with the chap and tell him not to be so unsporting."

You just wait Rosy. Gerrard (or Ronaldinho) will score a similar goal (but from nowhere near as accute an angle) to Lampards, with 4 players running into the box, and people will still be hyping it up for 3 weeks after (or possibly years).

Rosy wrote:
Terry was saying: " I say ref that tackle was a tad harsh wasn't it? Could you have a word with the chap and tell him not to be so unsporting."

more like: "Oi!!! Sinor referee, bloody Barcelona player nearly took his leg off again.. when are you gonna send 'im off, bloody cheating bastard"

Personally I don't see the difference between waving an imaginary card (puyol) and contesting every referee decision (terry).. same thing.. South Europeans are just a bit more expressive with their hands

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:
Personally I don't see the difference between waving an imaginary card (puyol) and contesting every referee decision (terry).. same thing.. South Europeans are just a bit more expressive with their hands

There is a huge difference.

1 is using his captaincy right to ask the ref why he has/hasn't given a decision/booking. The other is trying to get another player booked by waving cards.

I'd have no problem with Puyol going over to the ref and questioning decisions (even asking for bookings - if he did it discreetly). The fact he comes running over waving imaginary cards is a) pretty stupid and b) pretty poor behaviour as a captain imo.

Terry isn't just politely asking for explainations.. he is demanding bookings, complaining etc. like all other footballers..

I guess it is just because I see it every weekend that I don't really care about it (it is very common in Spain), and I don't think that the referees in Southern Europe do either..

Might your aversion for card waving come from a certain incident at the world cup?

S4P wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:What made me laugh is how sanctimonious the Chelsea players have now become.

Lampard moaning about diving when he did the worst one of the evening

Not even close mate. Some of the diving was truly shocking. At least Lamps was within a yard of the defender.

Pierre Littbarski wrote: when Terry ran up to the ref a minute into the 2nd half (following Puyol's foul on Drogba that deserved a booking) what was he saying to the ref then ?.

Did you see him wave an imaginary card? No. As captain, they have the right (and are the only person with the right) to talk to the referee on the pitch. I think you're mistaking Terry with Puyol, who did do card waving.

No I'm not mistaking him with Puyol - my whole point was that he wasn't waiving the imaginary card but was still asking for bookings which is no better.

Neil Cox used to do it all the time but as he's a gritty honest English defender its ok.

Dennis Wise used to do it all the time.

When some Latin type does it but holds up an imaginary card its suddenly crime of the century.

Weren't refs supposed to give yellow cards to people waving imaginary cards this season?

wat if they cnt comunicate with th ref and signal with their hands?

Effenberg wrote:Weren't refs supposed to give yellow cards to people waving imaginary cards this season?

If they did that in the liga Valencia & Barça would never finish with 10 men

La Saeta Rubia wrote:

Effenberg wrote:Weren't refs supposed to give yellow cards to people waving imaginary cards this season?

If they did that in the liga Valencia & Barça would never finish with 10 men

You must be tired from riding around on that high horse LSR...

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:

You must be tired from riding around on that high horse LSR...

Na, i have a great view from up here

La Saeta Rubia wrote:

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:

You must be tired from riding around on that high horse LSR...

Na, i have a great view from up here

Just saw the highlights from your match ..

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:

Just saw the highlights from your match ..

A win is a win. We are through to the next round, others cant say the same

Effenberg wrote:Weren't refs supposed to give yellow cards to people waving imaginary cards this season?

Yes, as they are meant to book players who dive, send off any player who deliberately raises his hand to an opponent, book players for dissent...


If you genuinely wanted to solve the problem then you'd have FIFA pass a rule stating that only the captains are allowed to go and voice dissent to the ref and everyone else can and will be booked if they do. Sometimes players show more desire to run towards the ref and argue than they do to win the ball.

Hasn't anyone considered that waving a card is perhaps easier than trying to cross the language barrier, however much it may seem like cheating to English fans? I doubt Terry has the same problem because most refs speak English.

btw S4P, trust me, ALL our players took it bad. The only reason it appears that Puyol, Motta, Edmilson, etc. are the ones who are pissed off is because they're the only ones who spoke to the press. That draw was a very hard one to take because of when you equalised, but like I said, I think today they all will accept that it's over now, we played well, and we need to move on.

kasnani wrote:
btw S4P, trust me, ALL our players took it bad. The only reason it appears that Puyol, Motta, Edmilson, etc. are the ones who are pissed off is because they're the only ones who spoke to the press. That draw was a very hard one to take because of when you equalised, but like I said, I think today they all will accept that it's over now, we played well, and we need to move on.

But you will get these sort of results 2-3 times over the season unfortunately. Some will go for you, some against. I seem to remember you scoring a very late goal against Celta in your opening match (and Werder Bremen too).

Like I said before, you have my sympathy for the way the match ended, but I think a defeat would've been very harsh on Chelsea that night.

S4P wrote:You just wait Rosy. Gerrard (or Ronaldinho) will score a similar goal (but from nowhere near as accute an angle) to Lampards, with 4 players running into the box, and people will still be hyping it up for 3 weeks after (or possibly years).

but ronny has already scored one of these types of (did he mean it or didnt he) goals and people call it a fluke...

it's nothing to do with lampard for me... judged purely on the circumstances of the goal

S4P

If Lampard was playing for the Reds. Children kid would have said: "Lampard is World Class and the best player in the World....."

ricardojol wrote:S4P

If Lampard was playing for the Reds. Children kid would have said: "Lampard is World Class and the best player in the World....."

yep and unbiased ricardo thinks PSV are by miles the best team in our group and are actually top of it...


am judging the goal on it's merit like everyone else ricardo.. Don't look for the easy way out

Lets discuss about it a few weeks later mate! PSV are 100% not worse than Liverpool and in depth I think they are even a better side!

Only Chelsea, Barcelona and Lyon are significant better than PSV. For the rest they can beat every other team!

COTR wrote:

S4P wrote:You just wait Rosy. Gerrard (or Ronaldinho) will score a similar goal (but from nowhere near as accute an angle) to Lampards, with 4 players running into the box, and people will still be hyping it up for 3 weeks after (or possibly years).

but ronny has already scored one of these types of (did he mean it or didnt he) goals and people call it a fluke...

it's nothing to do with lampard for me... judged purely on the circumstances of the goal

Ronnys goal was from 40 yards out and he aimed it into the centre where around 15 players were standing, so it makes it a bit more open to debate.

Where Lampard put the ball, nobody was within 5 yards.