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Brian2468
Formerly known as sheva7
Kimbo
Parks lives
Pierre Littbarski
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    England squads (age and form)

    Pierre Littbarski
    Pierre Littbarski


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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:33 pm

    ...do you think we use the right criteria to pick players for the squad ?

    AGE

    Should people like Micah Richards, Rooney and Lennon be in there ?

    Surely they should be playing under 19's/21's and develop before being put in the senior squad ?

    One of the reason's I say this is that I can't see France or Italy ever picking an 18 year old for the 1st team.

    You may think "who cares what France and Italy think" but they contested the finals of Euro '00 and World Cup '06 so probably know more about developing players than we do.

    Obviously they have far more players playing top flight football throughout Europe than we do so they can afford to only pick experienced players.

    I think its shocking that people are calling for Agbonlahor to be in the squad and I believe that Walcott's inclusion in the World Cup squad was truly embarrassing.

    Rooney looks out of his depth right now - people on BBC and SKY will make a lot of his perfomances this week but we're talking about Sheff Utd and a Friendly - its a long time since he's really done well in competitive Internationals or Champions League.



    FORM


    Why do England managers always pick the flavour of the month to try and appease moronic fans ?

    Surely ability should be given more consideration ?

    eg. If Andy Johnson scores 20 this season in EPL and Defoe scores 5 I'd still pick Defoe ahead of AJ.

    If Darren Bent scored 20 and Ashton 5 - I'd pick Ashton.

    The reason for this is that we're picking these players with a view to playing in Major International tournaments not to play in the Premiership - therefore I've picked the players who have more ability and not necessarily the ones who do well in the Prem.

    McLaren should be picking players who have the ability to play in these tournaments and then back them once they've been selected.


    What do you think with regards to picking players on form and abilty and do you believe that younger players should be given time to develop or is it a case of "if you're old enough, you're good enough ?"
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    Parks lives


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    Post by Parks lives Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:42 pm

    Neutral

    So who would you pick up front instead of Rooney?

    Also, surely Defoe has had enough chances for England and failed to produce anything so far apart from one good goal vs Poland.
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:46 pm

    Form is VERY important when it comes to strikers, i'd rather see a chance fall to an in-form Johnson than an off-form Defoe. Although i'm not sure that's the best example as Defoe isn't much more talented IMO. Erm ok
    Pierre Littbarski
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:47 pm

    Parks Lives wrote:Neutral

    So who would you pick up front instead of Rooney?

    Also, surely Defoe has had enough chances for England and failed to produce anything so far apart from one good goal vs Poland.

    He doesn't produce because he runs round like a headless chicken trying to impress people (much like Ian Wright used to) because he knows that if it doesn't happen straightaway he will be replaced by whoever's scored a couple in the Prem that month.

    Maybe if the manager tells JD that he has faith in him and will stand by him he might play he's natural game and perform better.


    Instead of Rooney:

    Ashton, Defoe, Crouch, Heskey, Owen.
    Pierre Littbarski
    Pierre Littbarski


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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:48 pm

    Kimbo wrote:Form is VERY important when it comes to strikers, i'd rather see a chance fall to an in-form Johnson than an off-form Defoe. Although i'm not sure that's the best example as Defoe isn't much more talented IMO. Erm ok

    ...so you could be changing your strikers for every game then in theory ?

    Would you have dropped Alan Shearer for Euro '96 ?
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:53 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:Form is VERY important when it comes to strikers, i'd rather see a chance fall to an in-form Johnson than an off-form Defoe. Although i'm not sure that's the best example as Defoe isn't much more talented IMO. Erm ok

    ...so you could be changing your strikers for every game then in theory ?

    Would you have dropped Alan Shearer for Euro '96 ?
    You do have a point, BUT Defoe is no Alan Shearer. I don't think he's much more talented than Johnson, so i would use form to pick between them. Ofcourse if Davies was banging in the goals and Ashton wasn't i would pick Ashton because there's an obvious gulf in class there. I don't like you're examples though, including the Bent and Ashton one, Bent is a very talented player and one to watch IMO.
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    L r d
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    Post by L r d Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:58 pm

    I dont agree with you on the age issue, But only really special talents, and people like rooney pyhsically ready for his age should be there earlier than most. 19 is fine, below that maybe to early if not pyhsically ready.

    The form thing i agree with, players like johnson are not england quality and never will be.
    Pierre Littbarski
    Pierre Littbarski


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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:01 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:Form is VERY important when it comes to strikers, i'd rather see a chance fall to an in-form Johnson than an off-form Defoe. Although i'm not sure that's the best example as Defoe isn't much more talented IMO. Erm ok

    ...so you could be changing your strikers for every game then in theory ?

    Would you have dropped Alan Shearer for Euro '96 ?
    You do have a point, BUT Defoe is no Alan Shearer. I don't think he's much more talented than Johnson, so i would use form to pick between them. Ofcourse if Davies was banging in the goals and Ashton wasn't i would pick Ashton because there's an obvious gulf in class there. I don't like you're examples though, including the Bent and Ashton one, Bent is a very talented player and one to watch IMO.

    Very effective at Prem level sure but very talented ?

    Not really.

    Defoe not much more talented than AJ ?
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:07 pm

    Bent is a good all round striker, and has the potential to become a very good one. He's fast, a good finisher, he's strong, can head it and hold it up. And he can play as a lone striker. If Milan Baros is good enough for international football then Bent definitely is.

    And on Defoe, i've never seen the big deal. He's never proved he's good enough for regular football at a prem club, let alone the England team.
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    Parks lives


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    Post by Parks lives Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:13 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    And on Defoe, i've never seen the big deal. He's never proved he's good enough for regular football at a prem club, let alone the England team.

    Aye, he's done nothing for West Ham, Spurs or England to warrant the hype he gets.

    Guess thinking Rooney is better is moronic though.
    Pierre Littbarski
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:19 pm

    Parks Lives wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    And on Defoe, i've never seen the big deal. He's never proved he's good enough for regular football at a prem club, let alone the England team.

    Aye, he's done nothing for West Ham, Spurs or England to warrant the hype he gets.

    He has the attributes to warrant it though.

    Guess thinking Rooney is better is moronic though.

    He hasn't done much in CL or proper England games to be fair.

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    Formerly known as sheva7


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    Post by Formerly known as sheva7 Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm

    So Messi, Cesc. Cristiano Ronaldo, etc, shouldn´t play for their respective national squads? I don´t think so...IMO if they play against top sides they will develop even faster, get more experience, etc...
    Pierre Littbarski
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:31 pm

    sheva7 wrote:So Messi, Cesc. Cristiano Ronaldo, etc, shouldn´t play for their respective national squads? I don´t think so...IMO if they play against top sides they will develop even faster, get more experience, etc...

    Ronaldo probably as Portugal don't quite have the depth but no need for the other 2 yet.
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    Brian2468


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    Post by Brian2468 Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:13 pm

    Pierre. I think you have a valid point about age. Italy and France have more talented players and to play for the national side you have to be proven so standards are higher right through from a young age.
    Trouble with England we do not have a rich source of players to fill in for some of the younger lads coming through.

    To me England could have a England B side so the whole squad gets to play friendly games this would help bond players like Defoe who really have not stepped up to the plate in his football career. It would help the with many other problem issues formations, style of plays etc.

    It is harder at international level to give lots of time for a player to grow when you require good results every game.
    Picking players on form is hard when you have so many mediocre players that are up and down with there performances.Erm.......

    I would watch an England B game with more interest at this time than watching Gerrard, Lampard, doing the same old boring stuff...Least the Coach could try out new ideas without feeling his job is on the line because of the result............<Ale>
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    Post by Mistletoe. Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:26 am

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    sheva7 wrote:So Messi, Cesc. Cristiano Ronaldo, etc, shouldn´t play for their respective national squads? I don´t think so...IMO if they play against top sides they will develop even faster, get more experience, etc...

    Ronaldo probably as Portugal don't quite have the depth but no need for the other 2 yet.

    Yeh, not quite the depth in Portugal. The only other wingers we had when Ronaldo made his debut were Figo, Simão, Quaresma and Boa Morte, to name just 4. We could continue that list if you wish.
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    L r d
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    Post by L r d Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:10 am

    This is all well and good and everything, but the real problem here is that the best English midfielder plays for the Italian national team and the best midfielder playing for England isn't English.

    True Story Ale
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:13 am

    About age: rubbish! when you are good enough you are good enough!!!
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    Post by Saintsar Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:14 am

    Obispo wrote:This is all well and good and everything, but the real problem here is that the best English midfielder plays for the Italian national team and the best midfielder playing for England isn't English.

    True Story Ale


    What you on about now?
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    L r d
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    Post by L r d Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:15 am

    saintgoingmarching wrote:
    Obispo wrote:This is all well and good and everything, but the real problem here is that the best English midfielder plays for the Italian national team and the best midfielder playing for England isn't English.

    True Story Ale


    What you on about now?

    Perrotta and Hargreaves. Wink
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    Saintsar
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    Post by Saintsar Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:21 am

    Ah yes, forgot about Perrotta...
    Deluded F*ck™
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:41 pm

    Kimbo - you are a joker of the highest order...

    Defoe can do things that AJ can only dream about.

    2 years ago, Defoe scored 13 EPL goals (12 from open play), despite sharing striking duties 50-50 with Robbie Keane.

    AJ? Sure he scored 21, but 10 Were FUCKING PENALTIES! Doh

    And he started almost every game for Palace.

    Must try harder Kimmy.
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    Post by christmasborocooper Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:58 pm

    He did get alot of those penalties himself though....to be fair.
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:33 pm

    TeamSpirit™️ wrote:
    Defoe can do things that AJ can only dream about.(AJ can score on a regular basis, something Defoe can only dream of)

    2 years ago, Defoe scored 13 EPL goals (12 from open play), despite sharing striking duties 50-50 with Robbie Keane.(and Now?)

    AJ? Sure he scored 21, but 10 Were FUCKING PENALTIES! (Where did Palace finish again?)
    I'm hardly being controversial. Erm

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