Its worse in England having to play live on Channel 5.
+10
fcb
toon h
Allez les rouges
Deluded F*ck™
Batman
Protheus
Roger Hunt
blutgraetsche
Oleguerisntthatbad
Parks lives
14 posters
@ Arsenal, Barcelona & Man United fans
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
Age : 43
Favourite Player : The Ginger One
Registration date : 2006-08-06
Say your team goes out tonight or tomorrow, if you could choose would you rather go out of Europe altogether and concentrate on the domestic competitions or enter the UEFA cup, even thought it maybe to the detrement of your domestic games?
Its worse in England having to play live on Channel 5.
Its worse in England having to play live on Channel 5.
Oleguerisntthatbad- Number of posts : 7180
Age : 46
Registration date : 2006-08-10
I don't care about the UEFA cup.. I we go out I want us to fully concentrate on the league.. But management and Rijkaard would never allow that.
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
Age : 43
Favourite Player : The Ginger One
Registration date : 2006-08-06
So you'd rather play weakened teams even if it meant going out early?
blutgraetsche- Number of posts : 23328
Supports : Deutsche Fußballnationalmannschaft
Registration date : 2006-08-09
AFAIK, Manchester United have not won the UEFA Cup yet, while Arsenal has won it once, and Barca a couple of times. So why not try to add another cup to your collection to complete it?
While it has lost some prestige, it's still not a Mickey Mouse cup, especially in the knock out stage.
While it has lost some prestige, it's still not a Mickey Mouse cup, especially in the knock out stage.
Cesc- Guest
With no disrespect to the UEFA Cup I would rather cut or losses in Europe and concentrate domestically, the battle for the CL places looks like it will be tough again this year so I would just like to make sure we qualify for that. Many teams have stuttered in the league because of playing on a Thurdays in the UEFA Cup - Don't want that. Saying that if the worst comes to the worst we would be favourites for the UEFA Cup if we are entering into it.
The thought of Steve Claridge commentating our games is not worth thinking about.
The thought of Steve Claridge commentating our games is not worth thinking about.
Oleguerisntthatbad- Number of posts : 7180
Age : 46
Registration date : 2006-08-10
ParktheHeraldAngelsSing wrote:So you'd rather play weakened teams even if it meant going out early?
Sure.. the domestic title is much more important in my opinion. I would be a good choice to rest players like Dinho, Deco, Eto'o, Messi and Puyol in the UEFA cups (of course not at the same time) since they play so many games.
Roger Hunt- Number of posts : 10115
Age : 54
Registration date : 2006-08-07
I definitely think that the UEFA cup winners should get a CL place. That would make it a much more valuable trophy.
But I can certainly understand why everyone favours concentrating on their league rather than the UEFA cup.
But I can certainly understand why everyone favours concentrating on their league rather than the UEFA cup.
Protheus- Number of posts : 1816
Age : 52
Supports : Futebol Clube do Porto
Registration date : 2006-08-07
I never understood how supporters don´t want to win silverware. OK i understand it is like you say " a mickey mouse cup"nowadays , but hey it's a cup nonetheless and every chance you get at winning trophies must be taken.
It is like saying that finishing 4th in the big countries a lot over , say ten years and having nothing to show at the end is the same as winning some minus cup but giving your clubs more silverware.
Anyway peraphs in the big 4 countries fans think differently
It is like saying that finishing 4th in the big countries a lot over , say ten years and having nothing to show at the end is the same as winning some minus cup but giving your clubs more silverware.
Anyway peraphs in the big 4 countries fans think differently
L r d- Guest
At the stage we would be in it, then ok might aswell win it. From the beginning no way, just play the reserves, if we get to the quarters play the real players.
Really it is a cup for second rate teams, winning it just means you failed to qualify or got knocked out of the champions league, which is failure.
Don't want to think about being in the competition anyway
Really it is a cup for second rate teams, winning it just means you failed to qualify or got knocked out of the champions league, which is failure.
Don't want to think about being in the competition anyway
Guest- Guest
i would but out must of the B team in the uefa cup and try to win the domestic double. and if we do manage to win them, then who ever win the champions league the press will be saying its because barca got knock out
Last edited by on Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
Oleguerisntthatbad- Number of posts : 7180
Age : 46
Registration date : 2006-08-10
Protheus wrote:I never understood how supporters don´t want to win silverware. OK i understand it is like you say " a mickey mouse cup"nowadays , but hey it's a cup nonetheless and every chance you get at winning trophies must be taken.
It is like saying that finishing 4th in the big countries a lot over , say ten years and having nothing to show at the end is the same as winning some minus cup but giving your clubs more silverware.
Anyway peraphs in the big 4 countries fans think differently
Well let me put it this way..
I would choose the domestic title over the UEFA cup BUT if we could win the UEFA and still finish ahead of Madrid (but not winning) then I would take the second result.
Roger Hunt- Number of posts : 10115
Age : 54
Registration date : 2006-08-07
L r d wrote:
Really it is a cup for second rate teams, winning it just means you failed to qualify or got knocked out of the champions league, which is failure.
That's pretty much what Parks said.
But surely winning the UEFA Cup> being knocked out in the first knockout round of the CL?
Batman- Number of posts : 9071
Age : 41
Registration date : 2006-08-07
Out of Europe for Man Utd means a better chance of winning the league.
the reason we finished second last season was down to being out of Europe so early in my opinion.
But the Uefa Cup is the only Cup that SAF has not won yet. so who knows.
the reason we finished second last season was down to being out of Europe so early in my opinion.
But the Uefa Cup is the only Cup that SAF has not won yet. so who knows.
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
Age : 43
Favourite Player : The Ginger One
Registration date : 2006-08-06
- Post n°14
es
blutgraetsche wrote:AFAIK, Manchester United have not won the UEFA Cup yet, while Arsenal has won it once, and Barca a couple of times. So why not try to add another cup to your collection to complete it?
While it has lost some prestige, it's still not a Mickey Mouse cup, especially in the knock out stage.
Part of what I'm worried about its the only club trophy Fergie hasn't won, so he would be determined to win it. Wouldn't complain if we did win it but its bound to effect our league form and we don't have the strongest squad.
As Cesc-Fab said, having Colin Murray a radio DJ analysing our games and Steve Claridge commentating on them doesn't bare thinking about.
L r d- Guest
Roger_Hunt wrote:L r d wrote:
Really it is a cup for second rate teams, winning it just means you failed to qualify or got knocked out of the champions league, which is failure.
That's pretty much what Parks said.
But surely winning the UEFA Cup> being knocked out in the first knockout round of the CL?
Yeah i suppose so, quarter final cl > winning uefa cup imo.
It's not really a bad thing Fergie hasnt won this cup.
blutgraetsche- Number of posts : 23328
Supports : Deutsche Fußballnationalmannschaft
Registration date : 2006-08-09
But doesn't it depend on the other teams as well? This year, quite a few good teams will be in the UEFA cup, and beating them should be motivation enough. Or to put it this way: Hypothetically speaking, do you want Arsenal to lose against Tottenham in the UEFA Cup?
I really can't see a club like Manchester United fielding a B-team against another European top side in the UEFA cup. The UEFA cup might not have the same prestige as it used to have before the CL was introduced, but you still have a status to defend.
I really can't see a club like Manchester United fielding a B-team against another European top side in the UEFA cup. The UEFA cup might not have the same prestige as it used to have before the CL was introduced, but you still have a status to defend.
Roger Hunt- Number of posts : 10115
Age : 54
Registration date : 2006-08-07
ParktheHeraldAngelsSing wrote: As Cesc-Fab said, having Colin Murray a radio DJ analysing our games and Steve Claridge commentating on them doesn't bare thinking about.
Yeah, when we won it we had the BBC Dream Team of Lawro and Hansen after all the matches to remind us how flippin' great we were
I thought that I'd never see another cup-final as nail-biting as that one.
Deluded F*ck™- Number of posts : 21765
Age : 38
Supports : The Lilywhites from N17
Favourite Player : The Hurrikane - he's on of our own!
Registration date : 2006-08-07
blutgraetsche wrote: Hypothetically speaking, do you want Arsenal to lose against Tottenham in the UEFA Cup?
Of Course
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
Age : 43
Favourite Player : The Ginger One
Registration date : 2006-08-06
blutgraetsche wrote:But doesn't it depend on the other teams as well? This year, quite a few good teams will be in the UEFA cup, and beating them should be motivation enough. Or to put it this way: Hypothetically speaking, do you want Arsenal to lose against Tottenham in the UEFA Cup?
I really can't see a club like Manchester United fielding a B-team against another European top side in the UEFA cup. The UEFA cup might not have the same prestige as it used to have before the CL was introduced, but you still have a status to defend.
What I want and what Fergie want are different things, he'll still play most of the first teamers with the odd change each game.
I've said all along though this season I really want to win the league title and I wouldn't be overly fussed if we went out of the Champions league in the second round as long as we won the league.
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
Age : 43
Favourite Player : The Ginger One
Registration date : 2006-08-06
Roger_Hunt wrote:ParktheHeraldAngelsSing wrote: As Cesc-Fab said, having Colin Murray a radio DJ analysing our games and Steve Claridge commentating on them doesn't bare thinking about.
Yeah, when we won it we had the BBC Dream Team of Lawro and Hansen after all the matches to remind us how flippin' great we were :ale:
I think if us or Arsenal go into the UEFA cup, either BBC or ITV will try and buy the rights.
Allez les rouges- Number of posts : 8098
Age : 108
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Favourite Player : Jens Lehmann
Registration date : 2006-08-07
If, heaven forfend, we don't get through, then sure I'd want to win it. I think there's a bit of a split between continental and English attitudes here to be honest. (When Liverpool won their treble Houllier set all the cups before the squad and asked the players to say which one meant the most to them; predictably, the English players tended to say the FA Cup and the "foreigners" the UEFA Cup. In the overall scheme of things, I'd be inclined to agree with the foreigners.)
Although Champions League qualification has to be a priority, let's face it, we are not going to win the league this season anyway. (And if things go badly we'll be out of both domestic cups soon...)
And judging by the winners, the cup's scarcely Mickey Mouse – Porto won it the year before they won the Champions League, and Liverpool won it four years before doing so...
Although Champions League qualification has to be a priority, let's face it, we are not going to win the league this season anyway. (And if things go badly we'll be out of both domestic cups soon...)
And judging by the winners, the cup's scarcely Mickey Mouse – Porto won it the year before they won the Champions League, and Liverpool won it four years before doing so...
Roger Hunt- Number of posts : 10115
Age : 54
Registration date : 2006-08-07
When we won it the FA Cup was probably the 'easiest' trophy in terms of who we had to beat... if I remember rightly we beat Leeds and Man U in the League Cup, Barca and Roma in the Uefa Cup and Arsenal in the FA cup.
toon h- Number of posts : 8715
Age : 51
Supports : FC Barcelona
Registration date : 2006-08-07
I think Barça should go and win it. If only for prestige and to salvage their pride.
Surely winning the UEFA cup >>> QF CL !!
Surely winning the UEFA cup >>> QF CL !!
fcb- Number of posts : 40471
Age : 113
Supports : FC Barcelona
Registration date : 2006-08-11
I agree with Protheus, toon h/noel h/holly hunter and others, if we don't win today, I think and hope that we are a strong enough squad to do well in the UEFA without compromising league performances. Otherwise we really did deserve to go out of the CL and can't blame having the strongest group.
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
Age : 43
Favourite Player : The Ginger One
Registration date : 2006-08-06
Lose v Benfica...Win The Title?
On Wednesday night Manchester United have what is, remarkably, their third chance to qualify for this season's Champions League knock-out phase.
What looked like a formality ahead of shock results against Copenhagen and Celtic still looks like a probability, with Sir Alex Ferguson's men in need of just a point in their last group game - at home to Benfica - to progress.
United will be keen to avenge last year's elimination at the hands of the Portuguese side, and they should comfortably do so. And yet, while last year's exit was a disaster that had both fans and journalists knowingly proclaiming that it was well past time for the Premiership's longest-serving manager to hang up his hairdryer, an early bath this time round could be exactly what the Red Devils need.
Obviously, a few doubts would re-emerge on the Stretford End, the hacks would circle like vultures, and the Old Trafford faithful would have to endure the taunts of rival fans (and for United, remember, that means everyone). The financial implications might also be a concern, and - perhaps more worryingly - United's future seeding in the competition could be affected.
But when the dust settled, Fergie's side would have a far greater chance of finally reclaiming the Premiership title.
It's very hard to win the Champions League as well as your domestic title even with the best squad in the world. And United have far from the best squad in the world.
The addition of Henrik Larsson and the return of Giuseppe Rossi and Alan Smith should, all being well, provide Ferguson with the chance to rest the tired legs of Wayne Rooney and Louis Saha when the going gets tough later in the season, but there is no doubt which pairing he will want leading the line when the crunch comes.
And it is in midfield, where the most legwork is done, where the quality of United's back-up leaves most to be desired when compared to Chelsea.
Injury and fatigue take their toll on players - just ask Thierry Henry - and every game that United play in Europe increases the number of Premiership minutes ManYoo fans will have to put their faith in Kieran Richardson.
Indeed, United could do without the UEFA Cup run that defeat would bring, but it would be clear where their priorities lay if that situation arose. No-one would blame Ferguson for giving the second string a run-out in a second-rate competition.
The possibility of thus resting players for European games, allied to Chelski's continued progression in the League Cup, would go some way to redressing the imbalance between the two squads challenging for the title.
It goes without saying that United are the only team to find themselves in this position. Arsenal and Liverpool, both out of the title race, can hope that a Champions League run will salvage their seasons as it did one and two years ago respectively. Chelsea, meanwhile, are desperate for the trophy whose absence burns a hole in their silverware cabinet. Their failure to have won it is one of the biggest sticks with which their rivals can beat them.
Three years ago this position would have seemed completely implausible. A second Champions League triumph was Ferguson's Holy Grail, and most of the fans - sated on a diet of Premierships - would have agreed. Not now. Not to a man as proud as Ferguson.
Liverpool won it. Arsenal got to the final. And no-one thinks of either as challenging Chelsea's recent dominance even for a second.
The same couldn't be said of beating Roman's Roubles to the Premiership title - one that it's hard not to think would be more satisfying than any previous league win Ferguson has masterminded.
Of course, Manchester United fans might believe they really can challenge on both fronts. Even Ferguson might, although I suspect he is more aware of the limitations of his squad than anyone else. And for that reason, and for pride, neither the fans nor the boss would want an early Champions League exit if you offered it to them now.
But what you want and what you need aren't always the same thing.
Adam Fraser
On Wednesday night Manchester United have what is, remarkably, their third chance to qualify for this season's Champions League knock-out phase.
What looked like a formality ahead of shock results against Copenhagen and Celtic still looks like a probability, with Sir Alex Ferguson's men in need of just a point in their last group game - at home to Benfica - to progress.
United will be keen to avenge last year's elimination at the hands of the Portuguese side, and they should comfortably do so. And yet, while last year's exit was a disaster that had both fans and journalists knowingly proclaiming that it was well past time for the Premiership's longest-serving manager to hang up his hairdryer, an early bath this time round could be exactly what the Red Devils need.
Obviously, a few doubts would re-emerge on the Stretford End, the hacks would circle like vultures, and the Old Trafford faithful would have to endure the taunts of rival fans (and for United, remember, that means everyone). The financial implications might also be a concern, and - perhaps more worryingly - United's future seeding in the competition could be affected.
But when the dust settled, Fergie's side would have a far greater chance of finally reclaiming the Premiership title.
It's very hard to win the Champions League as well as your domestic title even with the best squad in the world. And United have far from the best squad in the world.
The addition of Henrik Larsson and the return of Giuseppe Rossi and Alan Smith should, all being well, provide Ferguson with the chance to rest the tired legs of Wayne Rooney and Louis Saha when the going gets tough later in the season, but there is no doubt which pairing he will want leading the line when the crunch comes.
And it is in midfield, where the most legwork is done, where the quality of United's back-up leaves most to be desired when compared to Chelsea.
Injury and fatigue take their toll on players - just ask Thierry Henry - and every game that United play in Europe increases the number of Premiership minutes ManYoo fans will have to put their faith in Kieran Richardson.
Indeed, United could do without the UEFA Cup run that defeat would bring, but it would be clear where their priorities lay if that situation arose. No-one would blame Ferguson for giving the second string a run-out in a second-rate competition.
The possibility of thus resting players for European games, allied to Chelski's continued progression in the League Cup, would go some way to redressing the imbalance between the two squads challenging for the title.
It goes without saying that United are the only team to find themselves in this position. Arsenal and Liverpool, both out of the title race, can hope that a Champions League run will salvage their seasons as it did one and two years ago respectively. Chelsea, meanwhile, are desperate for the trophy whose absence burns a hole in their silverware cabinet. Their failure to have won it is one of the biggest sticks with which their rivals can beat them.
Three years ago this position would have seemed completely implausible. A second Champions League triumph was Ferguson's Holy Grail, and most of the fans - sated on a diet of Premierships - would have agreed. Not now. Not to a man as proud as Ferguson.
Liverpool won it. Arsenal got to the final. And no-one thinks of either as challenging Chelsea's recent dominance even for a second.
The same couldn't be said of beating Roman's Roubles to the Premiership title - one that it's hard not to think would be more satisfying than any previous league win Ferguson has masterminded.
Of course, Manchester United fans might believe they really can challenge on both fronts. Even Ferguson might, although I suspect he is more aware of the limitations of his squad than anyone else. And for that reason, and for pride, neither the fans nor the boss would want an early Champions League exit if you offered it to them now.
But what you want and what you need aren't always the same thing.
Adam Fraser
Mistletoe.- Number of posts : 758
Age : 29
Supports : Benfica.........likes Millwall e U.A.Povoense
Registration date : 2006-09-08
ParktheHeraldAngelsSing wrote:Lose v Benfica...Win The Title?
United will be keen to avenge last year's elimination at the hands of the Portuguese side, and they should comfortably do so.
Adam Fraser
Who is this arrogant bastard Adam Fraser?
Tweesus- Number of posts : 34851
Age : 41
Registration date : 2006-08-06
I'd rather stay in the UEFA cup, purealy because with the amount of players we have I doubt it would effect our league form that much
L r d- Guest
Mistletoe. wrote:ParktheHeraldAngelsSing wrote:Lose v Benfica...Win The Title?
United will be keen to avenge last year's elimination at the hands of the Portuguese side, and they should comfortably do so.
Adam Fraser
Who is this arrogant bastard Adam Fraser?
A mate of Andy "Benfica would be relegated in the Premiership" Gray's no doubt.
He's already pointed out how much 'bigger and better' the premiership is in comparison to the Portuguese league this year; he did so again last night. Make him eat his words again
Mistletoe.- Number of posts : 758
Age : 29
Supports : Benfica.........likes Millwall e U.A.Povoense
Registration date : 2006-09-08
ParktheHeraldAngelsSing wrote:
having Colin Murray a radio DJ analysing our games and Steve Claridge commentating on them doesn't bare thinking about.
If you go to the games, you don't hear and watch that.
Sheffield gunner- Number of posts : 16403
Age : 39
Supports : Arsenal
Registration date : 2006-08-07
If we get knocked out tonight, then I would rather compete in the UEFA Cup than not play any European football. We have no chance of winning the league and seeing as we have tough away games at Liverpool, could be out of both domestic cup competitions by the end of January.
We have a good enough team and squad that we should be able to qualify for the CL regardless of having to play more games in Europe and I would still regard it as a fine achievement to win the UEFA cup. Also, I presume it would get the club more co-efficient points which would help us with future seedings in the CL.
We have a good enough team and squad that we should be able to qualify for the CL regardless of having to play more games in Europe and I would still regard it as a fine achievement to win the UEFA cup. Also, I presume it would get the club more co-efficient points which would help us with future seedings in the CL.