Spurs get bye to next UEFA cup round!

Feyenoord have today been evicted from the UEFA cup after there crowd troubles at Nancy!

How unlucky for Feyenoord and lucky for Spurs, though it probably was deserved

They haven't yet mate. UEFA are meeting on Monday and they may even bring back the team who finished behind Feyenoord.

Yeh, looks likely though

the BBC says:





Feyenoord thrown out of Uefa Cup



Dutch club Feyenoord have been thrown out of the Uefa Cup.
Uefa has taken the decision to banish the club from this season's competition after the crowd trouble at French side Nancy on 30 November.
The group stage game had to be stopped for half an hour because of trouble in the stand as Feyenoord trailed 3-0.
Feyenoord were set to play Tottenham in the last 32 knockout stage of the Uefa Cup but Spurs are now likely to get a bye into the next round.

If the French policy didn't move those hooligans to the stadium Feyenoord were still in the tournament!

Feyenoord asked Nancy not to let the crowd in, warned the Nancy and UEFA that troublemakers would come to Nancy

Ricardo Jol wrote:If the French policy didn't move those hooligans to the stadium Feyenoord were still in the tournament!

Feyenoord asked Nancy not to let the crowd in, warned the Nancy and UEFA that troublemakers would come to Nancy

thanks for some wisdom.

if you know all details it's even unfairer. Immediately after the draw, like a decent club, Feyenoord warned UEFA and Nancy. They begged Nancy only to sell tickets to their own fans. They didn't tickets were on sale at supermarkets, you could buy 100 in 1 go withoput identifying yourself. This how People with bans wnet to the match and the stadium.

This sentence is a total disgracre. Why us? Why no Inter? PSG? or for example spurs in the past. Twice their 'hooligans' severly injured 50 people in our stadium twice they get a slap on the wrist. Thgiose were fans who got their tickets through Spuds. In Nancy most of the troubles were caused by the French funcking up.

Wonderful.

Fucking joke. French police were disgraceful, it's not at all Feyenoord's fault.

But then. It is not the first time Feyenoord caused troubles in Europe

What me makes angry is, Feyenoord are just a small fish (financially). Clubs like Roma, West Ham and Inter will always treated with more respect because they have NICE TV deals...

But then again... As a Den Haag (The Hague, La Haye, La Haya, A Haia) fan I know what it is to be treated like a small fish because the KNVB and Dutch journalists always treat us with different standards as well...

Fucking disgrace!!! It deserves no further comment from me.

So Spurs will either get a bye or play Wisla Krakow

A very poor Wisla Krakow that Blackburn managed to beat 2-1 away from home

Tweedle wrote:A very poor Wisla Krakow that Blackburn managed to beat 2-1 away from home

Blakcburn were lucky. Wisla actually have a decent team well capable of beating Spurs in a cup tie (Spurs would be fav for sure, but would be no easy match for sure).

I'd rather See Spurs beat Feyenoord fair and square.

Ridiculous decision. Just like the 5 years ban on English clubs back in the 80's. Ommision based on the actions of a few is just shit.

Fine them and move on

a fine doesn't help...

I hope they take actions to Nancy as well because they are also (or even more) responsible for the crowd mess... They did everything wrong what a police force can do wrong

Wisla have decent players but they had disgraced tactics against the European teams.... As Poland coach (and former Feyenoord, Ajax, Real Madrid coach) Leo Beenhakker said. "They had the quality to beat this poor Feyenoord (when they played them) but the tactics was rediculous poor"

Ricardo Jol wrote:a fine doesn't help...

I hope they take actions to Nancy as well because they are also (or even more) responsible for the crowd mess... They did everything wrong what a police force can do wrong

Wisla have decent players but they had disgraced tactics against the European teams.... As Poland coach (and former Feyenoord, Ajax, Real Madrid coach) Leo Beenhakker said. "They had the quality to beat this poor Feyenoord (when they played them) but the tactics was rediculous poor"

There's still an ongoing investigation against the chief of police (by the french authorities, they too know they fucked up). UEFA will not take at action v Nancy. Fully agree with you they should be punsihed too. One Dutch guy went to a supermarket and bought 100 tickets for a French section. all fans were mixed it was a mess. No ID checks. They brought arrested people to the stadium and released them in french sections... Crowd control / match management like that can turn minor skirmishes in Heysels.

Ridiculous decision. Its the French that fucked up, let it become the inflamatory situation that it was in the first place. Feyenoord retailated and behaved badly, but it never should have come to this. And neither should UEFA or the French wash their hands and punish Feyenoord at least twice as hard as they would against any other *bigger* team.
Feyenoord were made as examples and scapegoats, simply because it is easier to do that with clubs in *smaller* leagues and because they have less interests for UEFA to hold acount to.

If this holds up Feyenoord could become a midtable team for a decade. Not to mention the penalty that Eredivisie football gets with the loss of points.

jonathan de guzman wrote:

Ricardo Jol wrote:a fine doesn't help...

I hope they take actions to Nancy as well because they are also (or even more) responsible for the crowd mess... They did everything wrong what a police force can do wrong

Wisla have decent players but they had disgraced tactics against the European teams.... As Poland coach (and former Feyenoord, Ajax, Real Madrid coach) Leo Beenhakker said. "They had the quality to beat this poor Feyenoord (when they played them) but the tactics was rediculous poor"

There's still an ongoing investigation against the chief of police (by the french authorities, they too know they fucked up). UEFA will not take at action v Nancy. Fully agree with you they should be punsihed too. One Dutch guy went to a supermarket and bought 100 tickets for a French section. all fans were mixed it was a mess. No ID checks. They brought arrested people to the stadium and released them in french sections... Crowd control / match management like that can turn minor skirmishes in Heysels.

'Zactly

Ridiculous decision, a big club would likely have gotten off with a slap on the wrist.
It's good to see the UEFA starts acting against the problems caused by hooligans, but then they should act against every club. The inconsistency by the UEFA is just appalling.

As we say in Portuguese, the banning of Feyenoord is just «for the English to see» (means it's purely cosmetic).
They never investigate properly the failures of clubs, administraters or anyone behind these problems. It's Feyenoord, it's easy to punish them, and then say look what we have done, we are fighting against hooligans.
Many teams that have hooligan problems do the most to stop these problems, and yet are punished the most severely whenever it happens to them.

Feyenoord has had crowd trouble before, maybe they're becoming an easy target for Uefa...

They should watch themselves, which I know they're trying, before this goes any further.

Although it seems unfair on Feyenoord it could be the basis of a good precedent.

The next time there is crowd trouble at bigger teams, e.g. Roma, they should also be excluded from european competition.

no it isn't uefa is softer for richer teams....

110% wrote:Although it seems unfair on Feyenoord it could be the basis of a good precedent.

The next time there is crowd trouble at bigger teams, e.g. Roma, they should also be excluded from european competition.

Bollocks. Its not a precedent.
The rules are all in place and the punishment depends on the severity, and what the UEFA jury decide.

This is not the first time such crowd trouble happened in Europe. While I'm not trivialising the issue of hooliganism and what happened in Nancy, (1) it was relatively innocious, and (2) there's no way Feyenoord is to take the sole responsibility for this. If anything its the French that f*cked up majorly. The Feyenoord 'supporters' retaliated rather than started the trouble.
On the other hand you have much severe trouble everywhere, including corruption, bribery, blatant and proud racism, crowd trouble, sabotage you name it.

Yet Feyenoord is the one to carry the crux of Europe right now for having a reputation (that's what attracted the other hooligans in the first place) and that its a Dutch club whose interests do not stretch its profitable hands long enough for just to fine the club. Many have got away with more for a long time, and as the rules and penalties have been in place for a while, yet Feyenoord has been chosen as the scapegoat and the 'example'.

For something the club did everything to avoid but fell on deaf ears, yet Nancy has got away with murder. Not only is the penalty unfair from the league perspective, it is also ridicuously harsh. First a €100.000 fine then two months later a two year ban.
It has also been uncovered that the (Swiss) prosecutor who has dredged this up is also just using this as a carreer step to climb the ladder.

Finally Feyenoord and the Eredivisie have been shafted.

Examples are only made of the clubs which UEFA can afford to penalise without shooting itself in the foot (and in the wallet) somehow.


It is not a precedent in the way that the rules have been in place for a while; UEFA has been leniant in the past with is own rules(that's a precedent). Yet Feyenoord is punished harsher than is dictated by UEFA's own rules.

Our bye into the next round has been officially confirmed, BTW.

That Tottenham should get a buy is total shit... I'm not sure what else should be done, but then it's not up to me. Still, to just let a team into the final stages of a competition like this is wrong.

Feyenoord is getting the stick because they're not rich enought to hit back. It was Feyenoord, but it could've been Sporting, Porto, Boavista, AEK...


EDIT: "rich enough"; there's a difference between being a big club and being a rich club...

Italian teams have got by for years terrorising fans without punishment solely because they target them outside the grounds.

Inter didn't even get chucked out for throwing a flare at dida ffs!

Luso wrote:That Tottenham should get a buy is total shit... I'm not sure what else should be done, but then it's not up to me. Still, to just let a team into the final stages of a competition like this is wrong.

Feyenoord is getting the stick because they're not rich enought to hit back. It was Feyenoord, but it could've been Sporting, Porto, Boavista, AEK...


EDIT: "rich enough"; there's a difference between being a big club and being a rich club...

True!

DD wrote:

110% wrote:Although it seems unfair on Feyenoord it could be the basis of a good precedent.

The next time there is crowd trouble at bigger teams, e.g. Roma, they should also be excluded from european competition.

Bollocks. Its not a precedent.
The rules are all in place and the punishment depends on the severity, and what the UEFA jury decide.

This is not the first time such crowd trouble happened in Europe. While I'm not trivialising the issue of hooliganism and what happened in Nancy, (1) it was relatively innocious, and (2) there's no way Feyenoord is to take the sole responsibility for this. If anything its the French that f*cked up majorly. The Feyenoord 'supporters' retaliated rather than started the trouble.
On the other hand you have much severe trouble everywhere, including corruption, bribery, blatant and proud racism, crowd trouble, sabotage you name it.

Yet Feyenoord is the one to carry the crux of Europe right now for having a reputation (that's what attracted the other hooligans in the first place) and that its a Dutch club whose interests do not stretch its profitable hands long enough for just to fine the club. Many have got away with more for a long time, and as the rules and penalties have been in place for a while, yet Feyenoord has been chosen as the scapegoat and the 'example'.

For something the club did everything to avoid but fell on deaf ears, yet Nancy has got away with murder. Not only is the penalty unfair from the league perspective, it is also ridicuously harsh. First a €100.000 fine then two months later a two year ban.
It has also been uncovered that the (Swiss) prosecutor who has dredged this up is also just using this as a carreer step to climb the ladder.

Finally Feyenoord and the Eredivisie have been shafted.

Examples are only made of the clubs which UEFA can afford to penalise without shooting itself in the foot (and in the wallet) somehow.


It is not a precedent in the way that the rules have been in place for a while; UEFA has been leniant in the past with is own rules(that's a precedent). Yet Feyenoord is punished harsher than is dictated by UEFA's own rules.

Bollocks as well.

UEFA has been far too lenient according to its own rules, to everyone, not only the bigger, richer clubs. Hooliganism, racism etc has been going on with small fines being handed out (look at eastern europe for plenty of examples), or playing matches behind closed doors. Banning clubs from competition is a proper punishment. Unfortunately Feyenoord is a scapegoat for them taking a tough stance, because it is clear the fault is not only on their side, but they had a significant contribution to it. Liverpool fans retaliated at Heysel and look what a mess that was.

But the precedent here is that they are trying to be more strict on the rules. They have banned a club from europe for crowd trouble, therefore next time there is crowd trouble at a bigger club it should also be banned otherwisethe media will be on them for showing favouritism, and I'm sure Feyenoord will be straight in there to complain about it. Hopefully bans for racism etc will follow. I don't particualrly care if a small or big club is made the scapegoat as long as something is done about the problems.

As for the Inter flare incident. I don't know if you have noticed, but flares are not allowed in for CL matches in Italy any more. They have been warned of being thrown out of the competition tyhe next time it happens

110% wrote:

DD wrote:

110% wrote:Although it seems unfair on Feyenoord it could be the basis of a good precedent.

The next time there is crowd trouble at bigger teams, e.g. Roma, they should also be excluded from european competition.

Bollocks. Its not a precedent.
The rules are all in place and the punishment depends on the severity, and what the UEFA jury decide.

This is not the first time such crowd trouble happened in Europe. While I'm not trivialising the issue of hooliganism and what happened in Nancy, (1) it was relatively innocious, and (2) there's no way Feyenoord is to take the sole responsibility for this. If anything its the French that f*cked up majorly. The Feyenoord 'supporters' retaliated rather than started the trouble.
On the other hand you have much severe trouble everywhere, including corruption, bribery, blatant and proud racism, crowd trouble, sabotage you name it.

Yet Feyenoord is the one to carry the crux of Europe right now for having a reputation (that's what attracted the other hooligans in the first place) and that its a Dutch club whose interests do not stretch its profitable hands long enough for just to fine the club. Many have got away with more for a long time, and as the rules and penalties have been in place for a while, yet Feyenoord has been chosen as the scapegoat and the 'example'.

For something the club did everything to avoid but fell on deaf ears, yet Nancy has got away with murder. Not only is the penalty unfair from the league perspective, it is also ridicuously harsh. First a €100.000 fine then two months later a two year ban.
It has also been uncovered that the (Swiss) prosecutor who has dredged this up is also just using this as a carreer step to climb the ladder.

Finally Feyenoord and the Eredivisie have been shafted.

Examples are only made of the clubs which UEFA can afford to penalise without shooting itself in the foot (and in the wallet) somehow.


It is not a precedent in the way that the rules have been in place for a while; UEFA has been leniant in the past with is own rules(that's a precedent). Yet Feyenoord is punished harsher than is dictated by UEFA's own rules.

Bollocks as well.

let's see if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my points.

UEFA has been far too lenient according to its own rules, to everyone, not only the bigger, richer clubs. Hooliganism, racism etc has been going on with small fines being handed out (look at eastern europe for plenty of examples), or playing matches behind closed doors. Banning clubs from competition is a proper punishment. Unfortunately Feyenoord is a scapegoat for them taking a tough stance, because it is clear the fault is not only on their side, but they had a significant contribution to it. Liverpool fans retaliated at Heysel and look what a mess that was.

So far agreeing with what I said.

But the precedent here is that they are trying to be more strict on the rules.

In court, everything is a precedent as long as it still stands as the initial verdict is dealt.

They have banned a club from europe for crowd trouble, therefore next time there is crowd trouble at a bigger club it should also be banned otherwisethe media will be on them for showing favouritism, and I'm sure Feyenoord will be straight in there to complain about it.

Feyenoord has been made the scapegoat, and mostly everyone knows its not right. And the next time an incident, probably a mor esevere one as well, occurs and nothing will be done again, Feyenoord has f*ck all to say. As a third, uninvolved, party they have no saying in that matter. And no refunds will be given either.

Hopefully bans for racism etc will follow. I don't particualrly care if a small or big club is made the scapegoat as long as something is done about the problems.

Wrong way of thinking. I don't mind the correct punishments be dealt corresponding to the incident and share of involvement. That's justice.
Scapegoating is giving the blame, responsibility and burden for something your not accountable for and punished harsher for your sins than anyone else would have been, had they actually done what your accused of.
Not only are Feyenoord not solely responsible (or not even the majority of blame); even if they were, they wouldn't have been punished out of proportion for their 'crimes'. The UEFA didn't give a leniant slap on the wirst, nor did they punish according to their own rules; the sentencing is not even according and within their own system of punishments. The punishment given was for something much harsher than the what Feyenoord were burdened with in the first place.
Seeing as you acknowledge Feyenoord are made scapegoat, you're actually saying:"I don't care if a small or big club is made the scapegoat as long it isn't my club".
Scapegoating is wrong in any case. Scapegoating is worse than being made an example (within the reaches of justice, fairness and punishments accordingly).

As for the Inter flare incident. I don't know if you have noticed, but flares are not allowed in for CL matches in Italy any more. They have been warned of being thrown out of the competition tyhe next time it happens

Of course...
Flares were banned at the time already, and it wasn't as if they hit a player of the opposition and misbehaved so badly afterwards that the game was canceled and people fgeared for everyone's lives.

Bollocks as well

Not at all. Not only didn't you disagree with what I've said in the previous post. You've also made yourself blatantly in favour of bias and unfairness in court as long as it isn't against your club. That's not justice, and nor will it get rid of the problem as you proposed. Its all about cheap PR (UEFA) and carreering (the attorneys) for the ones involved.

punty wrote:to shey

I don't have a club so don't care about that, but you are seeing it as picking on feyenoord and the dutch. I said they have been too lenient with everyone and it is about time they were harder. Of course I haven't made myself blatantly in favour of anyone. I think everyone should be punished more severely, and I don't care who they start with. I can't sympathise with hooligans "who only did it in retaliation". I think Inter should have been banned, and Roma etc. Now we might actually get proper punishments, and that is what I am in favour of.

You are complaining because it is a dutch club, so there is the bias.

I started with the "bollocks" because you did

I'm in favour of correct punishments and harsher laws. Not of perrenial leniancy and then burden a club beyond the reach of the rules.
In particular when it is clear and has been proven that it wasn't their fault to begin with.


They should get all the hooligans.