The Liverpool discussion thread 2006/2007

Fear.

kas wrote:Yeah, if I did, I'd have rejected your request

Why? because you agree with the rule ? if that is the case then the Mascherano move to Liverpool shouldn't be your primary concern, rather the amount of previous cases (precedent) that has allowed other players to play for more than 2 clubs during the allocated time period.

Take it up with Fifa, not us. They are not doing us any favours merely abiding by the precedent they have already set, the problems occur when Fifa do not abide by their own rules, we simply expressed this and as a result Fifa dont have a leg to stand on. Its not our problem Fifa are incompetent and can't enforce their own legislation of the game.

Can he play in the CL

Messiah wrote:Can he play in the CL

Should be able to.

Have Depor played in Europe this term, I don't think so?

If they haven't, both he and Arbeloa can. If they have then only one of the 2 can.

Great article by the Daily Mail on Masch. At this moment in time everyone is just waiting for us to official confirm his transfer so it's still not 100%... should go through though.


Mascherano's move - bottom to top in one not so easy transfer

On deadline day, Sportsmail had a unique insight into one of the most intriguing deals. Javier Mascherano completed his move to Liverpool from West Ham, but only after FIFA granted him permission to move to a third club this season.

Then Mascherano had to wait for the FA to authorise the transfer, with the midnight deadline looming...

Good enough for Diego Maradona, not good enough to displace Hayden Mullins or Nigel Quashie. Javier Mascherano yesterday moved from West Ham to Liverpool. No more relegation worries, there's a Merseyside derby to prepare for, not to mention a date with Ronaldinho and Barcelona in the Champions League.

"Of all the young players from Argentina, Mascherano impresses me the most. He is a monster of a player and is destined for great things," says Maradona of his 22-year-old countryman.

More impressive than Lionel Messi? Let's look at the evidence:

• Mascherano made his full international debut one year before his league debut for River Plate. • He has 20 caps and played in every minute of Argentina's 2006 World Cup campaign. He also won a gold medal at the Athens Olympics. • When El Jefe - The Chief - broke his foot playing for Corinthians a year before the World Cup, Argentina flew their doctor to Brazil to oversee the rehabilitation to make sure Mascherano was fit for Germany.

Still not good enough for West Ham, though. So Rafa Benitez, with his worldly knowledge of football, came to London's Canary Wharf to spend four hours talking with Mascherano, using stones to illustrate the role he will play in the Liverpool team.

"After these months when I've hardly had the chance to play, to sign for a team like Liverpool is very important for my career and my life," he told me on Wednesday. "The whole world knows about the history of Liverpool."

The comforting words uttered by Benitez have soothed Mascherano's wounds after starting only three Premiership games at West Ham, all defeats. The Liverpool manager has tracked the player since coaching Valencia and Mascherano already feels loved.

"It's strange to be leaving West Ham, without playing, and going to a huge club such as Liverpool. What I must do is to forget what has happened and concentrate on what might happen.

"It is especially important that someone of Rafa's calibre has belief in me. This opportunity is there for me. I have to show the manager that his expectation is justified."

His passion for the Premiership is unaffected. "I am sad that it didn't work for me at West Ham. I came with great hope and I don't know why they didn't pick me.

"Every day I was there, training hard, just in case. I'm satisfied with my professionalism. I didn't complain, I accepted that I was not in the plans of Alan Pardew, or Alan Curbishley.

"I wasn't picked when West Ham were winning, or when they were losing." And they have had more practice of the latter recently.

'Now I am going to Liverpool. English football is the place to be. I love it here. If you can prove yourself in England, if you can play football at this speed, with this level of competition, then you can play anywhere in the world." Which explains why he rejected Juventus for Anfield. A dockside apartment in Liverpool will be his next destination, Steven Gerrard his likely sidekick. "Gerrard is fantastic, fantastic, fantastic," Mascherano emphasises...in English.

His last engagement before heading north is to talk to Sportsmail. We are sitting over lunch with his mentor Kia Joorabchian, who owns 50 per cent of the player.

This transfer, initially a complicated 18-month loan, is one of seven for Joorabchian to complete during the last days of the transfer window. In the past month he has been involved in 16 deals.

Joorabchian - "my friend who helps me to reach big decisions" - translates for much of this conversation, though Mascherano's English is improving. He stopped taking lessons two months ago, a sign of his disillusionment, but will start again in Liverpool.

FIFA's ruling on this unique transfer is on the table before us and takes up 11 pages. In authorising his transfer to a third club in the same season, they have made much of Mascherano's dedication, adding that "[he] has fulfilled his contractual and playing obligations fully at all times". In fact, he trained alone on Tuesday when the rest of the West Ham team were preparing for the Liverpool game.

He's a smart lad too. Today is not the time for criticism of West Ham. If he is successful with Liverpool, their potential embarrassment is not his problem.

"The day you leave a club is not the day to talk about them in a disparaging manner. My time at West Ham wasn't what it was meant to be; I was excited to be joining a club like that. They haven't won much and I wanted to help to change that. I feel bad that I couldn't.

"Today I went and said goodbye and the players wished me good luck. I have to take a positive from this; I have never been at a club where I was not wanted in the team, where I wasn't an important player. It is an experience I would not wish to repeat."

He is reminded of the incident with Jermain Defoe at Tottenham, when he was bitten, on a rare appearance in a West Ham shirt.

"I am glad that you asked me, because I have never spoken about it before, although there were many quotes attributed to me after the game. All I will say is that I never complain about anything that happens on the field of play. What happens on the field, must stay on the field." Surely all new signings, especially from abroad, need time to settle. Mascherano doesn't need the excuse. "Not everyone needs that time. Gabriel Heinze didn't need time to settle when he came to Manchester United.

"There are players who can be an instant success - I don't want to complain and say that I need time to adapt. A real professional must seize the moment."

He leaves behind his friend and compatriot Carlos Tevez. "I knew we would separate because I have been sure to go to Liverpool for some time. I hope to play with him again, but I have to move on."

And, finally, is he really as good as Maradona says? "Diego is an incredible person and I feel very happy when he says good things about me, but, ultimately, I have to prove myself, to myself."

Passport faxed, registration papers on their way, time to go home and pack. The Argentine Makelele is heading for a club who want him. Watch this space.

Brilliant article....

I hope he proves to be a big hit

Dubai or not to buy?
Premiership | Liverpool
by Phil McNulty - BBC Sport 31 January 2007


Dubai International Capital's decision to walk away from its proposed takeover of Liverpool is the end of a love affair that grew cold with astonishing speed.

It was only a fortnight ago that Liverpool chief executive Rick Parry was in bullish mood about the arrival at the Shankly Gates of the investment arm of the Dubai government.

He told BBC Five Live's Sportsweek: "A huge amount of work has been going on, we'll have something to say soon.

"Yes, the deal is looking positive and yes, I'm confident it will go through. This will take us to the next level.

"But it's not a quick fix, a rich man's plaything. It's a long-term model for success, based around the new stadium."

Not any more it isn't.

It appears hesitation on the part of the Liverpool board, led by chairman David Moores, to formally accept DIC's bid in the wake of a second offer from American George Gillett has killed the deal stone dead.

This was meant to be the dream scenario for Liverpool. The deal that would see the Sheikhs of Dubai lavishing riches on Anfield that would put them alongside Chelsea.

It was never going to be work of a maverick benefactor on a Roman Abramovich scale, DIC is too shrewd and businesslike for that, but it seemed a perfect fit.

Now it appears that, as far as Moores and Parry are concerned, Gillett is the best a man can get.

Gillett may prove a palatable alternative - and do not rule out interest from other parties waiting in the wings as DIC pulled out.

DIC was welcomed with open arms by both Liverpool Football Club and their fans.

Serious people with serious investment and serious lovers of sport. There was even talk of some of the DIC hierarchy having Liverpool screen-savers on their mobile phones.

Boyhood fans and all that.

But it is clear this trail has been going cold over the last few days as the shadow of Gillett, owner of Montreal Canadiens ice hockey team, suddenly re-emerged.

Gillett appeared to have been seen off by DIC, and initial suggestions that Liverpool may take his renewed takeover bid seriously were swiftly sidelined by sources within Anfield.

But Gillett has made crucial moves in the last week that forced Liverpool to reconsider him as a serious proposition.

He completed his due diligence programme within three days - after DIC had taken the best part of a month over the same process.

He happily agreed to personally underwrite the potential £200m-plus cost of a new stadium without hesitation.

Was DIC reluctant to underwrite in such a fashion? If it was, it may have suggested to Liverpool a slight dent in their enthusiasm.

He delivered guarantees on future transfer funds.

And, crucially, Gillett was able to reject what some previously saw as a key plank of his proposal - namely a groundshare with neighbours Everton.

Liverpool chairman Moores, who owns 51.6% of the club, would get £8m more from the Gillett deal, but it would be unfair to suggest this would sway a deal.

Moores has never been motivated by personal gain from Liverpool - which suggests he was having serious reservations about choosing DIC ahead of Gillett over and above financial considerations.

I understand Moores has recently come under pressure from minor shareholders to consider Gillett's offer, which is worth £500 a share more than DIC's.

Now DIC have made that decision for him and only time will tell if Moores' hesitation to rubber-stamp a deal at a London Docklands hotel on Tuesday will be fatal.

Gillett covers many bases for Liverpool.

He is rich. He is a sports lover.

But Liverpool have trumpeted the merits of the DIC proposal so loudly, it will be interested to see how they pitch Gillett as the new dream ticket.

One thing is certain. Any deal must be done quickly and DIC's withdrawal has hardly accelerated the process.

Building work on Liverpool's new stadium is scheduled to start in March - and finance from a new owner is at the very heart of the foundations.

Liverpool cannot delay further. And Gillett is now in pole position to exploit DIC's withdrawal.

5000th post!, Grays preview of the derby:

It doesn't matter that Everton aren't in the best of form going into the 205th Merseyside derby with Liverpool at Anfield on Saturday.

They always seem to be able to pull a performance together and give Liverpool plenty of problems, and I don't think that will be any different this weekend.

On paper people might say that Liverpool will walk away with it, they've won 9 of their last ten league games and have the best home record in the Premiership.

But I've played in a few of these derbies and nothing will motivate Everton more than nicking a win or even putting in a good performance at the home of the fiercest rivals.

David Moyes will hope this game can kick-start their season after the Toffees' recent slump in form which has seen them win just one match since the turn of the year.

Everton recorded their biggest win over Liverpool in 42 years when they won 3-0 at Goodison back in September and they have a chance to complete their first league double over the Reds since Howard Kendall's team in 1984-85.

There's no doubt that they have the work cut out but the absence of Andy Johnson on Saturday might not be as big a loss as it looks at first glance.

AJ had something of a lean spell in front of goal prior to injuring his ankle against Wigan last weekend, and I think David Moyes will be more concerned with getting things right defensively.

Everton don't have the capability to out-shoot Liverpool or try to outscore them, so they have to concentrate on nullifying Liverpool's attacking threat, which on current form will be easier said that done.

Johnson may be out but David Moyes will more relieved to see Tim Cahill being passed fit to play on Saturday.

Cahill's goals and surges from midfield are a vital part of Everton's play and they will need him to have a big game at Anfield if they are to have any chance.

David Moyes will look to pack the midfield and play one up front with Cahill given licence to get forward in support as often as possible.

Mikel Arteta is another player Moyes will be looking to for inspiration, and he is arguably Everton's player of the season so far.

Arteta is technically superb but I wondered whether he would cope with physical demands of the Premiership when David Moyes brought him down from Rangers.

As well as Arteta is playing, Liverpool have a lot of power in their side and it's something he may struggle to cope with.

Five red cards and 28 yellows in the last four derbies is testament to how physical these games are and I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few more on Saturday.

Everton haven't won at Anfield since September 1999 and if I'm honest I can't see them breaking that duck on Saturday.

Liverpool are scoring for fun at the moment and have the best defensive record in the Premiership having conceded just 17 goals all season.

Rafa Benitez is talking a good game after five wins on the bounce but I believe that talk of catching Manchester United is pie in the sky.

There's no way United are going to lose five league games between now and the end of the season, and even then, Liverpool would have to win all their remaining games which is highly unlikely.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

No bias at all

seems pretty fair to me luis...

everton could cause us problems and will no doubt just park the bus and hope to kick our players off the pitch and nick one on the counter attack. the sending off last year probably helped us in that respect. if we score first and early though ill be expecting double figures

They always seem to be able to pull a performance together and give Liverpool plenty of problems - what about last season's derbys? hardly caused us problems did they?

There's no way United are going to lose five league games between now and the end of the season, and even then, Liverpool would have to win all their remaining games which is highly unlikely. - OK realistic, but a little exaggerated, anything in football is possible

He's aware that they don't have to lose 5, right?

If they lose 3 and draw 3 that's 15 points they've dropped.

Rick Parry has moved to assure supporters that the future of the club will be in safe hands whenever any takeover is complete.
“The overriding message is – ‘don’t worry’," he said. "Whatever decision is finally taken will be done in the best interests of Liverpool Football Club. When we have more to say, we are sure it will be good news and the right news.

“We had a duty as directors to consider a very interesting bid from George Gillett. The price is not a factor in David Moores’s mind. He is not after cash for himself, absolutely not. But he felt compelled to consider the rival bid. The DIC response to this was to give the club 12 hours to make a decision, but the chairman was not prepared to have Liverpool Football Club bullied like that.

“We would also stress this is not a question of going for the second choice. David has always given George Gillett serious consideration while at the same time we didn’t want to rush into any decision, and we were aware DIC might walk away.

“Be assured the only thing David Moores is concerned about is the club being in the right hands for the future. You can be certain he has done his homework carefully and will make a decision in the best interests of the club.

"The fans have trusted David to do the right thing in the past and can be sure that’s what he’s doing now. If they thought the Dubai bid was good, rest assured he is now considering a different course for the right reasons.”

Not gonna happen though is it.


Btw its the reserves match tonight. We're fielding Fletcher, Silvestre, Eagles, Brown, Smith and Dong plus some of our kids. Should be a walk over for us.

Parks lives wrote:Not gonna happen though is it.


Btw its the reserves match tonight. We're fielding Fletcher, Silvestre, Eagles, Brown, Smith and Dong plus some of our kids. Should be a walk over for us.

the mighty bolo is playing for us fool..

Team in full...

1. David Martin
2. Stephen Darby
3. Robbie Threlfall
4. Miki Roque
5. Gabriel Paletta
6. Lee Peltier
7. Ryan Flynn
8. Boudewijn Zenden
9. Craig Lindfield
10. Nabil El Zhar
11. Danny Guthrie (Captain)

Substitutes:-

12. Jack Hobbs
13. David Roberts
14. Godwin Antwi
15. Jay Spearing
16. Michael Burns



If you want to brag about potentially beating that, that's your perogative.

El Zhar'll rip you apart anyways.

Bloody hell, I thought you'd have a few squad players well known.

Could be a whitewash!

We've got a derby on Saturday pip. Lunch time kick off. AGAIN.

We don't have the benefit of rest like some lesser North West teams.

believe it or not park this is a reserve game, expecting alonso and kuyt were we?

No I was expecting players like Dudek, Hyypia, Sisqo (if he's back), Bellamy etc.

The squad players.

Anyways, your loss.

Parks lives wrote:No I was expecting players like Dudek, Hyypia, Sisqo (if he's back), Bellamy etc.

The squad players.

Anyways, your loss.

sissoko has only just recovered from a shoulder injury, he's not even fit enought to make the squad for the derby, and bellamy could well start against everton

Parks lives wrote:No I was expecting players like Dudek, Hyypia, Sisqo (if he's back), Bellamy etc.

The squad players.

Anyways, your loss.

to steal a phrase

Obispo wrote:Are you 'tarded or something?

if you think this you really are even more dim than we already give you credit for spank

Sissoko's been ruled out of the derby because he's still not fit. THe other 3 will more than likely be in the squad for Saturday. Besides, Martin is competing with Dudek and Padelli for the back-up keeper role these days anyways.

What? I honestly was trying to talk about the game.

Fair enough.

Parks lives wrote:What? I honestly was trying to talk about the game.

Fair enough.

I think you better leave right now

Parks lives wrote:What? I honestly was trying to talk about the game.

Fair enough.

yeah because bellamy and hyppia will be playing two days before a derby

now kindly fuck off

You should become a doorman Luis. No one messes with you.

agreed

Rafael Benitez has been assured by the Liverpool hierarchy he can trust them to make the right decision over the club's future.

The Reds' boss was surprised by the collapse of the Dubai International Capital takeover bid, with American sports mogul George Gillett now poised to win the race to buy the Anfield club.

Liverpool have been overwhelmed by the response of fans angry at the sudden change of direction, after five years trying to put together a package of outside investment to secure a new ground and give the club the financial muscle to compete with Chelsea and Manchester United.

But Benitez said: "I have spoken to [chief executive] Rick Parry and he says he feels this could be better, really good for the club. But I prefer to leave them to decide while I concentrate on the derby against Everton on Saturday.

"Whether there would have been more money in the transfer window if the DIC bid had moved quicker, I don't know, I cannot talk of speculation.

"I can only say I am happy with the players we have signed, and I hope I will be just as happy as now in the summer. There could be more money, but the thing is to do the right thing at the right time."

The DIC bid has dissolved into bitter recrimination from both sides about the delay in formulating an offer after almost six weeks of due diligence, where the Dubai accountants could look at Liverpool's books.

These delays, and the second approach by Gillett last week with an improved bid, raised doubts at a Liverpool board meeting on Tuesday, and ended with DIC withdrawing the following day.

Chief executive Parry claims chairman David Moores was given a 12-hour ultimatum to make a decision, but "was not prepared to have Liverpool bullied like that".

Benitez had met the DIC officials and proclaimed his approval of their plans, and now he must get used to the prospect of US owners instead, with a bid expected within days.

Benitez said: "I have not talked with the new people but I know they have spoken to the chairman and Rick and I trust them to make the right decision.

"You cannot please everyone. As a manager, I know that when I have to change players. But, the people in charge at Liverpool, they know the situation and they will analyse everything and do the best for the club.

"If the board decide to change and hear different people, I have confidence in them.

"When they talked with him first, they told me he knew about sport, and I am sure the board will make the best decision for the club.

"I had no hint of what was about to happen, I was think of the games and the signings I was trying to do. Even now, I am only really thinking about the derby."

He added: "Now, the most important thing is to make the right decision. The board, the chairman and Rick are listening to other people and I have been assured that it will be good for the club.

"I had met the DIC people, and the conversation was good. But, if my board decides to change, they must think the new people are better.

"I have confidence and I trust the chairman and the board. I recall, when the board were speaking to lots of different people, the impression was always good.

"They have to decide. But I was told by Rick that they were experienced and nice people.

"I have not talked with the new people, but I know they have spoken to the chairman and Rick and I trust them to make the right decision."

And Parry has jumped to the defence of Moores, who stands to make an extra £8m from the new offer.

Parry said: "The message is 'don't worry'. Whatever decision is finally made will be done in the best interests of the club.

"We had a duty as directors to consider a very interesting bid from George Gillett. The price is not the factor in David Moores' mind.

"He is not after cash for himself, absolutely not. But he felt compelled to consider the rival bid.

"The DIC response was to give the club 12 hours to make a decision, but the chairman was not prepared to have the club bullied like that.

"We didn't want to rush into any decision and we were aware DIC might walk away. George Gillett has made it absolutely clear to us that he will not be involved in a groundshare with Everton. There will be funding for the new stadium and a proper commitment to invest in the team.

"Be assured that the only thing David Moores is concerned about is the club being in the right hands for the future. You can be certain he is doing his homework carefully and will make a decision in the best interests of the club."

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/07/02/01/SOCCER_Liverpool_Nightlead.html&TEAMHD=soccer

Mascherano Signing A Rafa Master-Stroke
After Frank Rijkaard, Joan Laporta and Deco all endorsing Cristiano Ronaldo Barca legend Johann Cruyff has also come forward and urged to club to snap up the Manchester United ace.

On the face of it, Mascherano’s move looks like more of a rescue mission, with Benitez handing him another lifeline following a torrid spell at Upton Park. It also looks like it is better for him than for Liverpool.

“Where does he fit in?” ask Liverpool fans. “Are we going to put Xabi Alonso or Gerrard on the bench?”

“What a waste,” go those further on the extreme. “He couldn’t command a place at West Ham, what is he going to do at Liverpool.”

To attempt to answer these questions, allow me to take a step backwards and look at Rafa’s new system.

Obviously born out of frustration with wingers, this new version is as Dutch as it gets. Well, almost, as it is not quite the typical 3-4-3, but something closer to Rijkaard’s version of 4-3-3, despite what the Premieship pundits believe.

Yes, Rafa plays three – Carragher, Hyypia and Agger – at the back, with Riise and Finnan as the wing-backs, but a closer look suggests that one of those three is constantly playing the holding midfield role. At Barcelona, Edmilson does the business, covering Deco and Xavi (read Gerrard and Xabi Alonso) when attacking, and slipping back to support Puyol and Marquez when defending.

It is here that Mascherano comes in. He is not really competing with Xabo Alonso and Gerrard for a starting spot, but actually with Momo Sissoko, and maybe Agger. With Agger likely to be rotated with Hyypia and Carragher, the third defensive / midfield spot is his for the taking.

Here is my final piece of evidence to back everything up. Many are not aware, but Mascherano has also played regularly as a centre-half in his River Plate (pre-Corinthians) days. That makes him the ideal candidate for this third defensive berth.

Some would naturally ask: “Isn’t it back to the three man midfield we have paid for in the past?”

Well, yes and no. Yes, because the set up looks similar. No, because that was a 4-5-1, inherently more defensive than the current 4-3-3 (3-4-3 if it makes your day). The three up front will move towards goal rather than away from it, and Riise and Finnan will be urged to push on and offer width to support the three forwards, though the latter’s spot is now tailor-made for Daniel Alves (don’t be surprised if the Sevilla sizzler is at Anfield very soon).

I predict Luis Garcia to take Bellamy’s spot when he returns from injury, and also see Mark Gonzalez now excelling in this more 'Hispanic' role, so to speak, in the meantime.

That, however, is the subject of another article – wingers. For now, I would simply like to urge the Premiership to keep the jury out on Mascherano, and look forward to him playing this holding-midfield-cum-centre-half role with distinction.

Abhishek Thakur

What would be your Liverpool starting XI, if everyone is fit?

Decent article there but a fair bit of speculation.

Strongest XI away from home - should Arbeloa adapt quickly:

- - - - - - - - - - Reina
- - Arbeloa - Carragher - Agger
Finnan - Alonso - Macherano - Aurelio
- - - - - - - - - Gerrard
- - - - - - - Kuijt - Bellamy

At home:

- - - - - - - - - - Reina
Finnan - Carragher -Agger - Riise
Gerrard - Alonso - Mascherano - Kewell
- - - - - - - Kuyt - Bellamy

Obviously doesn't tell the whole story with Momo competing for one of the midfield berths, Hyypia the centreback and Crouch the striker.

At home I think we'll play one wide player, be that Pennant on the right or one of Gonzalez/Kewell on the left and play Gerrard narrow on the opposite flank, cutting infield.