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    Rez


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    Post by Rez Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:05 pm

    kaka, Buffon, Ronaldo (not so much anymore, but he is a legend) Totti, Adriano and Zlatan the arrogant are the rest arent.

    If you read my post I said compared to the past, in the past there were that many stars in one team never mind the whole league. But here are the true super stars in the prem:

    henry, Sheva, Drogba, Rooney, Ronaldo, robben, ballack, Giggs, Gerrard, Essien, Ferdinand and cech.

    My whole argument is that Seri A isnt that great this year and it isnt. It may return to its former glory, but I doubt it. I dont rate the prem as highly as you guys rate Seri A, despite the prem being stronger.
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    Post by The Pröfessör Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:43 pm

    I don't think the serie A is the best or even the 2nd best league in europe. However, it is a very underrated league here; even outside the top 4 they are lot of quality teams there.

    Regarding Inter, i rate this current team higher than juve of last season. And mind u that same team lost only once and had one of the best serie A start ever in a serie A that is considered by many here to be considerably stronger than this one.
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    Post by Dejan Savićević Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:50 pm

    Agooner wrote:I don't think the serie A is the best or even the 2nd best league in europe. However, it is a very underrated league here; even outside the top 4 they are lot of quality teams there.

    Regarding Inter, i rate this current team higher than juve of last season. And mind u that same team lost only once and had one of the best serie A start ever in a serie A that is considered by many here to be considerably stronger than this one.

    Why?
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    Post by The Pröfessör Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:54 pm

    Resilient Il Fenomeno wrote:
    Agooner wrote:I don't think the serie A is the best or even the 2nd best league in europe. However, it is a very underrated league here; even outside the top 4 they are lot of quality teams there.

    Regarding Inter, i rate this current team higher than juve of last season. And mind u that same team lost only once and had one of the best serie A start ever in a serie A that is considered by many here to be considerably stronger than this one.

    Why?

    I think both la liga and EPL are better ; better top 4 and just as good or even better teams outside the top 4.
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    Post by 110% Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:57 pm

    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
    Rez wrote:It came out wrong, I meant to say Bluenine, that you make out that Seri A is still strong and equal to La Liga and the Prem, when it clearly isnt and for that reason i am dont agree with the way you laud Inter, as the only time Inter have looked awesome is when Seri A is at its weakest.



    I have no English bias, I am not one of those idiots who believe English players are the best (alot of them are overhyped by the media), that england will ever win anything and that the prem is the best league in the world.



    I personally dont think the prems that great to watch outside the top 6/7, if united, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, newcastle, Spurs arent playing I dont bother watching it. I dont think any of the leagues are super strong the way Seri A used to be.



    I come on the European league board and its always the same Inter and SeriA hype. I used to love watching Seri A and wish the prem was half as good, now when I watch it, I think thank god the prem games are on soon. I guess htere arent many true superstars left in Seri A. I know you will disagree and reel of names of above average players, but they all pale to the true super stars who used to play there.



    English media talk rubbish, but all national media are biased towards there own, its the way it works. The average guy hasnt heard of half the foriegners, but they have heard of the English players, so they hype them up to get them intersted.

    Buffon, Kaka, Totti, Pirlo, Ronaldo, Nesta, Cambiasso, Adriano, Del Piero, Chivu, Ibrahimovic, Crespo, Mancini etc. are stars man.

    Can you name the true superstars in the Prem?
    The ones above match up don't they?

    Sorry but del piero plays in serie B and is a star in the mould of beckham or raul (formerly was good, now living off name).

    Terry, rio, king etc all better than nesta, who's been shit for a while.

    There are plenty of big stars in Inter which are not mentioned but they are lacking in most other teams. Serie A in the 90s was the best now it is 3rd, behind EPL and La Liga. Inter is the 3rd best team in Europe though, I would put Chelsea top having twice outplayed Barcelona in 2nd, but it is by no means certain that they will get past Valencia.

    Also I read a lot of English and Italian media and the English were far more complementary to the Italian team than the Italian media. A lot of english media had italy as one of the favourites. Most of the italians didn't even start supporting italy until they were in the quarter final, that's when the flags started coming out.
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    Post by Tweesus Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:00 pm

    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Inter have been nothing short of brilliant lately, but to say that they haven’t been helped by penalizations and a very bizarre Serie A is to be disingenuous.


    If something is 'disingenious' does that not mean that is 'genious'?
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    Post by Forza It Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:13 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Inter have been nothing short of brilliant lately, but to say that they haven’t been helped by penalizations and a very bizarre Serie A is to be disingenuous.


    If something is 'disingenious' does that not mean that is 'genious'?

    No. You are thinking of ingenious. Ingenuous means candid, sincere.

    Disingenuous means:

    # Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating: "an ambitious, disingenuous, philistine, and hypocritical operator, who ... exemplified ... the most disagreeable traits of his time" (David Cannadine).
    # Pretending to be unaware or unsophisticated; faux-naïf.
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    Post by Tweesus Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:19 pm

    ok

    I scan read, I apologise.

    EPL>>>>Serie A
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    Post by Forza It Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:27 pm

    110% wrote:
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
    Rez wrote:It came out wrong, I meant to say Bluenine, that you make out that Seri A is still strong and equal to La Liga and the Prem, when it clearly isnt and for that reason i am dont agree with the way you laud Inter, as the only time Inter have looked awesome is when Seri A is at its weakest.



    I have no English bias, I am not one of those idiots who believe English players are the best (alot of them are overhyped by the media), that england will ever win anything and that the prem is the best league in the world.



    I personally dont think the prems that great to watch outside the top 6/7, if united, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, newcastle, Spurs arent playing I dont bother watching it. I dont think any of the leagues are super strong the way Seri A used to be.



    I come on the European league board and its always the same Inter and SeriA hype. I used to love watching Seri A and wish the prem was half as good, now when I watch it, I think thank god the prem games are on soon. I guess htere arent many true superstars left in Seri A. I know you will disagree and reel of names of above average players, but they all pale to the true super stars who used to play there.



    English media talk rubbish, but all national media are biased towards there own, its the way it works. The average guy hasnt heard of half the foriegners, but they have heard of the English players, so they hype them up to get them intersted.

    Buffon, Kaka, Totti, Pirlo, Ronaldo, Nesta, Cambiasso, Adriano, Del Piero, Chivu, Ibrahimovic, Crespo, Mancini etc. are stars man.

    Can you name the true superstars in the Prem?
    The ones above match up don't they?

    Sorry but del piero plays in serie B and is a star in the mould of beckham or raul (formerly was good, now living off name).

    Terry, rio, king etc all better than nesta, who's been shit for a while.

    There are plenty of big stars in Inter which are not mentioned but they are lacking in most other teams. Serie A in the 90s was the best now it is 3rd, behind EPL and La Liga. Inter is the 3rd best team in Europe though, I would put Chelsea top having twice outplayed Barcelona in 2nd, but it is by no means certain that they will get past Valencia.

    Also I read a lot of English and Italian media and the English were far more complementary to the Italian team than the Italian media. A lot of english media had italy as one of the favourites. Most of the italians didn't even start supporting italy until they were in the quarter final, that's when the flags started coming out.

    Laugh

    You say Serie A is third like it's a fact. It's your opinion.

    As for the last bit...I have to disagree. I can think of several publications--Guardian springs to mind, World Soccer also--that were none too kind to the Azzurri. I didn't comment, by the way, on what Italian print had to say about them (whether it be good or bad was irrelevant to my argument). Most countries in Europe reflect sensibly on their own prospects. Italians are notorious, as you probably know well, to throw equanimity out the window when talking of their teams.

    As for Del Piero living off past glories—if you were to ask la liga fans to list the stars that play there, they would list Raul and Beckham. Del Piero easily puts both of them in the shade when it comes to footballing ability. If Del Piero doesn’t deserve to be on the list, then Giggs doesn’t deserve to be on the Prem list.

    Finally, yes he plays in Serie B—I took Italy as a whole.
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    Post by Forza It Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:28 pm

    Tweedle wrote:ok

    I scan read, I apologise.

    EPL>>>>Serie A


    No need to apologize.

    and No. Evil or Very Mad
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    Post by bluenine Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:07 pm

    Serie A in the 90s was head and shoulders above everyone else. It was probably better than rest of europe for a while, at least on star power. Almost every world class player between 1985-95 has played there, few exceptions.

    You are right. Those glory days of Serie A are over. It no longer as dominant as it used to be. At the moment, NO league is as good as Serie A used to be in the 90s. For a few years now, EPL, La Liga and Serie A have all been more or less equals... which one is better is more a question of taste/bias/style than anything else.

    IMO, in the early 2000s La Liga had an edge. A very slight edge. Now its EPL, a very slight edge again. But thats just my opinion, and the advantage is so slight that there is no consensus....

    IMO Inter, Milan, Roma, Fiorentina, Lazio and Palermo have very good teams in Serie A this season, and personally I find them more watchable than their english counterparts. Just like you do otherwise. That is more a matter of person taste and opinion than anything else.

    There are 3 Italian teams in teh CL at the mo, along with 4 EPL and 3 La Liga. Can't see much of a difference yet, even there. Lets see how that unfolds.


    Rez wrote:It came out wrong, I meant to say Bluenine, that you make out that Seri A is still strong and equal to La Liga and the Prem, when it clearly isnt and for that reason i am dont agree with the way you laud Inter, as the only time Inter have looked awesome is when Seri A is at its weakest.

    I have no English bias, I am not one of those idiots who believe English players are the best (alot of them are overhyped by the media), that england will ever win anything and that the prem is the best league in the world.

    I personally dont think the prems that great to watch outside the top 6/7, if united, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, newcastle, Spurs arent playing I dont bother watching it. I dont think any of the leagues are super strong the way Seri A used to be.

    I come on the European league board and its always the same Inter and SeriA hype. I used to love watching Seri A and wish the prem was half as good, now when I watch it, I think thank god the prem games are on soon. I guess htere arent many true superstars left in Seri A. I know you will disagree and reel of names of above average players, but they all pale to the true super stars who used to play there.

    English media talk rubbish, but all national media are biased towards there own, its the way it works. The average guy hasnt heard of half the foriegners, but they have heard of the English players, so they hype them up to get them intersted.
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    Post by Rez Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:04 pm

    @Bluenine good post, I used to love watching Seri A and it used to be awesome and thats why I say the things about the current Seri A teams and players. Its like with united over the past 3 years there have been games were we played well, but not well enough to win anything. Compared to any other team we were awesome, but due to the high standards we had previously set we were disssapointing.

    I know you probably think I hate Italian football and I am prem zealot but its not the case. I am just comparing the football to the past, Seri A set high standards, sometimes these high standards come back and bite you in the ass. Which is why many english posters say the things they do. Even though you rate alot of players in Italy to the posters who grew up watching superstars play in Italy the current crop dont cut it.

    The prem has the stars that Italy could only previosly attract, and European competitions. Thats what people base there views on , not the technicallity of the football. [/url][/u][/i]
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    Post by Barrilete Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:54 pm

    I seriously can't believe how underrated Serie A is here...

    As for the so called stars comparing is just nonsense...specially when players are made "stars" by the media rather than by their play...Reading the star lists was just a laugh

    For the comments I've been reading I say not many are regular calcio watchers
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    Post by bluenine Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:00 pm

    ok

    This MB is EPL dominated, sometimes the rest of us are forced to take extreme positions to balance the arguements.

    Barrilete_Cosmico wrote:I seriously can't believe how underrated Serie A is here...

    As for the so called stars comparing is just nonsense...specially when players are made "stars" by the media rather than by their play...Reading the star lists was just a laugh

    For the comments I've been reading I say not many are regular calcio watchers
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    Post by abundance Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:22 am

    110% wrote:Most of the italians didn't even start supporting italy until they were in the quarter final, that's when the flags started coming out.

    woot? I can tell you, the world cup frenzy here was HUGE since the beginning.
    With all the bad things going on in Italy, calciopoli scandal, recession, bad politics... people got in a trance for the azzurri since the first match, it was like everyone decided to dream on for 30 days in the summer that we were a better country - united, full of hope, and successful.
    The biggest thing was the amount of people who went outside to watch the matches together in city squares and parks. Here in Florence there were like at least 30 locations with giant screens, and they all were packed since Italia-Ghana. Basically no one under 35 was watching Italy at home.
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    Post by Protheus Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:38 am

    All games of serie A i saw this season have been very good and with attacking football. Somehow i have a much more positive image of Serie A than a couple of years ago.

    In the 80's /90's no other country could claim to have so many stars like the calcio but it had a more defensive mentality. Strong defenses and excelent attacks. Nowadays i see open games and find them very entretaning.

    And dispite the overrun of Internazionale in Serie A, Roma, Fiorentina and even Palermo(amongst others but i have seen mostly this ones) play an atractive football worth seeing and they do try to give Inter a run for it but the way they are playing for much of the season makes them very difficult to stop.

    Inter earn the right to be praised. Finaly i see them with stars but playing as a team ok


    Last edited by on Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by bluenine Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:44 am

    ok

    Spot on, thats the main difference Mancio has managed to make. As a tactician he may be still WIP, but as a inspirational leader, Mancio is as good as it gets. And sometimes that is all that is needed!

    Protheus wrote:
    Inter earn the right to be praised. Finaly i see them with stars but playing as a team ok
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:59 am

    bluenine wrote:ok

    Spot on, thats the main difference Mancio has managed to make. As a tactician he may be still WIP, but as a inspirational leader, Mancio is as good as it gets. And sometimes that is all that is needed!

    Protheus wrote:
    Inter earn the right to be praised. Finaly i see them with stars but playing as a team ok

    I think the continuity helps aswell. When was the last time Inter kept a manager for 3 striaght seasons?
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    Post by abundance Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:03 am

    bluenine wrote:Spot on, thats the main difference Mancio has managed to make. As a tactician he may be still WIP, but as a inspirational leader, Mancio is as good as it gets. And sometimes that is all that is needed!

    The real good thing about Mancini is that Moratti likes him, trusts him and follows his advices.

    That has allowed the stability needed to build up a winning team in a couple of years.

    In the past, the madness of a passionate chairman who hadn't a clue about football and didn't trust his own staff always f***ed things up.

    Another good thing is that he is still a player in his mind, a bit like Rijkaard. Which means that he doesn't go overboard trying to be the bench mastermind, and that he likes to make the team play in a way that's entertaining for the players.


    For all the rest, Mancini still needs to prove himself in a season where all the big trees are there and healthy.
    Even is ispirational ability looked dodgy last year with Milan and Juventus pressuring his squad.
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    Post by Super Progress Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:48 am

    as you say i think the most important reason for mancini being the one is that moratti belived in him. allthough that isnt alaways enough you also have to pick the right one to belive in because that could be equally bad if it is the wrong one as we have it currently with cappello.
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    Post by bluenine Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:53 am

    Funny thing is that the summer Mancio was hired, I was one of the biggest critics coz that summer Cappello was also available.

    My main problem with Mancio being hired (apart from being untested at this level) was that I just couldn't see Moratti giving him 4-5 years to prove himself... something we desperately needed, and something a coach of Capello's stature could have commanded...

    Funny how it all worked out in the end Wink Football is full of surprises

    supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:as you say i think the most important reason for mancini being the one is that moratti belived in him. allthough that isnt alaways enough you also have to pick the right one to belive in because that could be equally bad if it is the wrong one as we have it currently with cappello.
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:26 pm

    On a totally unrelated note, here's a video that might bring back some memories bluenine Wink

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SdoTxdJsMA
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    Post by bluenine Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:43 pm

    You bastard!

    Worst day of my life... will never forget it....

    BoBo Vieri wrote:On a totally unrelated note, here's a video that might bring back some memories bluenine Wink

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SdoTxdJsMA
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    Post by 110% Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:08 am

    abundance wrote:
    110% wrote:Most of the italians didn't even start supporting italy until they were in the quarter final, that's when the flags started coming out.

    woot? I can tell you, the world cup frenzy here was HUGE since the beginning.
    With all the bad things going on in Italy, calciopoli scandal, recession, bad politics... people got in a trance for the azzurri since the first match, it was like everyone decided to dream on for 30 days in the summer that we were a better country - united, full of hope, and successful.
    The biggest thing was the amount of people who went outside to watch the matches together in city squares and parks. Here in Florence there were like at least 30 locations with giant screens, and they all were packed since Italia-Ghana. Basically no one under 35 was watching Italy at home.

    I can tell you then mate that I have been living in Italy for 6 years, close to the san siro. After the scandal there was a general lack of interest in football. I had been to England and Sweden for work 1 month before the tournament and it was world cup fever everywhere (flags, banners, really good atmosphere etc). In Milan there were a few thousand hardcore supporters showing interest but the general public was not that bothered, and the big screens around Milan were not that crowded. Then Italy got to the semi-final against Germany and suddenly flags started coming out everywhere. The big screens became very crowded and they suddenly had to put up a lot more because the crowds suddenly became 20 times as big if not more. It was a very big difference from the beginning.

    What you said applies from the semi-final onwards, there was no great hope at the beginning of the tournament, it was all doom and gloom, teams being penalised, relegated etc.

    Also no Italian should ever complain about another country's media. Half of them thought Italy would easily win the world cup and deserve to for being the best looking people on the planet (I still remember some Italian saying that Italy should easily beat S Korea in the previous world cup as the Italians were more beautiful people). The other half of Italian media were saying that this was the worst Italian team ever, bunch of cheats, who did not deserve even to represent Italy, and that they should withdraw from the world cup altogether. The media does not however represent the people on the street, and my Italian friends thought the same as my English friends, if they can get to the semi-finals then anything can happen.

    I am happy for Italy that they won, but it was far from the joyous coming together of the country to support their team from the first match to bring hope and restore pride in Italy that you are making it out to be.
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    Post by Tweesus Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:48 pm

    I do agree that Serie A was well above every other league in the 90s - it was full of all the stars and the teams were formidable opponents in Europe.

    However now, I think its at the bottom of the big 3. The gap isn't anywhere near as huge as it was between Serie A and the rest in the 80's but I think even before the exploits of last season, it wasn't quite up there and I'm sure now that its going to drop off even further what with the latest Palermo incident
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    Post by abundance Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:31 pm

    110% wrote:I can tell you then mate that I have been living in Italy for 6 years, close to the san siro.
    Oh well, beg your pardon, I was under the impression that you lived abroad and had not first hand knowledge.
    If you had those feelings in Milan, then ok, I acknowledge that, even if I stand by my report about how it was going here in Florence.
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    Post by bluenine Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:42 pm

    110% wrote:I can tell you then mate that I have been living in Italy for 6 years, close to the san siro.

    You lucky lucky bastard!
    toon h
    toon h


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    Post by toon h Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:56 pm

    interesting thread. Hadn't read it before.

    I agree with you Bluenine on almost everything.

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