Will Hargreaves be a Redblood?

S4P wrote:What's so funny about what I said?

Comparing Rooney to Drogba!

Tweedledum wrote:

S4P wrote:What's so funny about what I said?

Is that aimed at me?

well whoever laughed

Roger_Hunt wrote:

S4P wrote:What's so funny about what I said?

Comparing Rooney to Drogba!

They're different types of players, but imo, an in-form Drogba can be just as effective as an in-form Rooney.

blutgraetsche wrote:
Problem is: Bayern almost never sell their players, most clubs don't even try to buy their key players, because they know this fact.

Exactly.

Why don't they just go after Senna and keep Ze Roberto?

S4P wrote:
They're different types of players, but imo, an in-form Drogba can be just as effective as an in-form Rooney.

Good luck with that opinion.

Roger_Hunt wrote:

S4P wrote:
They're different types of players, but imo, an in-form Drogba can be just as effective as an in-form Rooney.

Good luck with that opinion.

I guess you didn't watch the game at Anfield last season then?

S4P wrote:

Roger_Hunt wrote:

S4P wrote:What's so funny about what I said?

Comparing Rooney to Drogba!

They're different types of players, but imo, an in-form Drogba can be just as effective as an in-form Rooney.

There prices were the same S4P. Our initially fee was even smaller than £24 million. To pay the full £28 million we would have to win the Champions league, which doesn't look like it will happen any time soon and if we do it would probably be with Rooney doing excellently so the price would be justified.

I'm not going to say who I think is better, even though you could probably guess my response (and no I don't think Drogba is a bad player at all).

Head to head:

Drog 05/06 14 gls in 40 apps
04/05 15 gls in 40 apps

Rooney 05/06 19 gls in 48 apps
04/05 17 gls in 42 apps

Rooney is 20, Drog is 28.

IMO Rooney much better value for money.

Where's that Isar fellow gone...

Carrick Average?? And this is my point- players who ARE proven at the highest level (CL, international), ie Gerrard et al, are classed as "overrated",

yet here is player who has helped a young Spurs side up into a CL spot for most of the season, has proved himself at under 21 level, cannot get into the England side because of the good domestic form of Lampard and Gerrard in the past,

and because of this is "average"...

who is ignorant now eh?

---BTW, its like me saying Borowski is "average" because the guy hasnt proved himself properly yet. A couple of CL games and sub appearances for Germany in the WC dont make him proven, but is he average? Hmm

Hargreaves is good, but he aint 10 mill more than Carrick, that is just complete rubbish

Btw., according to various press, Lyon demands 38 Million Euros (25.8 million pounds) for Diarra, a similar player like Hargreaves, similar position, same age. Knowing that English clubs tend to pay more for English internationals, why should Bayern demand less for Hargreaves, seriously? Bayern is even richer than Lyon.

We've heard the same stupid rumours from Man Utd with Lizarazu, Sagnol, Ballack....none of this actually happened.

We are not a selling club.

The only thing I could see that would motivate Hargreaves to leave is the fact that he has won everything he can at Bayern. Leagues, European Cups etc...

Otherwise he wouldn;t even contemplate a move to a smaller team like Man Utd who are £800 million in debt and in decline having also lost their best two players in under a year (Keane & RvN).

Because Real Madrid are trying for Diarra and, like Chelsea, they will play inflated prices.

What clubs demand and what they get for players are 2 different things.

Isar Truppe wrote:We've heard the same stupid rumours from Man Utd with Lizarazu, Sagnol, Ballack....none of this actually happened.

We are not a selling club.

The only thing I could see that would motivate Hargreaves to leave is the fact that he has won everything he can at Bayern. Leagues, European Cups etc...

Otherwise he wouldn;t even contemplate a move to a smaller team like Man Utd who are £800 million in debt and in decline having also lost their best two players in under a year (Keane & RvN).

Why do you feel the need to bash Man United, because we have the gual to be intereted in one of your players that wants to move to the Premier League?

Should we have reacted this way when Bayern were after Ruud?

Borowski IS average

I was merely responding to the "big club" bullshit.

The Bundes liga as a league is flailing though! i mean its star player last season can't even make it in the Dutch squad!

Isar Truppe wrote:I was merely responding to the "big club" bullshit.

Well your merely being an idiot then.

Roger_Hunt wrote:Because Real Madrid are trying for Diarra and, like Chelsea, they will play inflated prices.

What clubs demand and what they get for players are 2 different things.

Of course, but why should Bayern demand less was my question.

Whatever, from the Werder perspective, I'd actually like this transfer to happen, because no matter who they will replace Hargreaves with, if the transfer happens, they will have huge problems in the midfield, because they just started to gel, and it will be even worse with a new guy. But I just know Hoeness well, and I'm realistic enough to know that it would be a very stupid and untypical move by him.

I get what Blut and Isar are saying- but the thing is Bundesliga clubs arent very good at fashioning money for themselves...Ballack obviously a good example where Bayern got no money,

and then Hertha Berlin selling Mertesacker for 5million Euros to Bremen!!! Where was Hertha's Business acumen??

Personally, I simply wouldnt be suprised if Bayern sell up at a modest price - I cant believe they will seriously stand in Hargreaves' way should he wish to leave. He has given them many years service since signing at a young age, would Bayern keep a player who doesnt want to play for them.. cant afford to bench him in the reserves..

Doubt hargreaves is the type of abrasive character to do that, but you just never know..

Tweedledum wrote:The Bundes liga as a league is flailing though! i mean its star player last season can't even make it in the Dutch squad!

Erm...what? The star player was Klose last season, and he would make it into any international squad. And as far as our fellow neighbours in the West are concerned, Van der Vaart was the second star player of last season, and he is the most important player of the current Dutch squad, as could be seen again yesterday.

We may have less money (on average) than you guys, but we still have excellent players in our league that are worth every cent. Not sure if you can say the same about your lot.

Seriously, it's about time that English clubs get an ass whopping in the CL. This arrogance stinks, and there is only one proper answer for that.

Pele, it still was not Hertha who sold us Mertesacker (it was Hannover, a rather small midtable club), and it still was more than those 5 million Euros you are raving about. Besides, this is about international transfers, not Bundesliga ones. Apples and oranges.

The Real White Pele wrote:I get what Blut and Isar are saying- but the thing is Bundesliga clubs arent very good at fashioning money for themselves...Ballack obviously a good example where Bayern got no money,

2006 list of income for worlds leading football clubs.

1 Real Madrid £186.2m
2 Man Utd £166.4m
3 AC Milan £158m
4 Juventus £154.9m
5 Chelsea £149.1m
6 Barcelona £140.4m
7 Bayern Munich £128m

Balance this with our expenditure and Bayern are at the top in terms of how a good business should be run. Self reliance, something Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea are not capable of given their massive loans and spending to finance projects like stadiums and Chelsea buying anything that moves.

So basically your point is bullshit.

Hargreaves and his Agent in talks with management. BTW i don't think it's a question of whether he wants to come, he does its as simple as that.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchesterunited/s/221/221007_hargreaves_plans_bayern_talks.html

@blutgraetsche ignore them

Isar Truppe wrote:

The Real White Pele wrote:I get what Blut and Isar are saying- but the thing is Bundesliga clubs arent very good at fashioning money for themselves...Ballack obviously a good example where Bayern got no money,

2006 list of income for worlds leading football clubs.

1 Real Madrid £186.2m
2 Man Utd £166.4m
3 AC Milan £158m
4 Juventus £154.9m
5 Chelsea £149.1m
6 Barcelona £140.4m
7 Bayern Munich £128m

Balance this with our expenditure and Bayern are at the top in terms of how a good business should be run. Self reliance, something Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea are not capable of given their massive loans and spending to finance projects like stadiums and Chelsea buying anything that moves.

So basically your point is bullshit.

I said Bundesliga Clubs. Bayern are an anomaly. What other Bundesliga clubs can boast such a massive turnover, despite larger attendances than any other league in the world?

My point is this, whether you think its bullshit or not: Bundesliga has the biggest stadia in the World, yet nowhere near the amount of money that England, Spain, and Italy generate each year. Is this effective business?

The clubs in Germany choose to keep ticket prices nice and low for the supporters Im told, which is great. But then all this moaning about how much less money Bundesliga clubs have than the rest is just hot air- you pay less, your clubs gets less, and the league has less Superstars and less success. Its all pretty simple.

blutgraetsche wrote:Pele, it still was not Hertha who sold us Mertesacker (it was Hannover, a rather small midtable club), and it still was more than those 5 million Euros you are raving about. Besides, this is about international transfers, not Bundesliga ones. Apples and oranges.

Apologies- I did know this, but was in a rush to write my post; rather embarrassed to get the two clubs mixed up, but there you go

PS Any inferral to the Bundesliga being "second rate" is clearly a wind up and if I were a Deutschlander, I would treat it in the same manner as an Otto-style anti-English jibe;

Nobody on this board of intelligent uberfootball geeks seriously subscribes to this train of thought

There is no moaning. We manage to achieve the same (or even more) with less money, we always did. Imagine what we would do with the same amount of money at our proposal. Even 15-20 years ago, when the Bundesliga was the strongest league in the world, the clubs had less money than their Spanish, Italian or English counterparts.

This won't change in future, although the league is slowly but surely generating more money through better marketing, better TV- and sponsorship deals etc. pp. But what will change is, compared to the last few years at least, the output of international or even world class homegrown talent. After the EC 2000 fiasco, most clubs have invested massively in their youth teams, the infrastructure and education. This will most probably bring us back to the top again, because it was the homegrown talent that made the Bundesliga so strong decades ago. We never had that many international transfers, or foreign stars. But we had world class German players who played most of their career in the league. We created our own stars, true stars, true greats, and that's what we want to do again. I'm confident that we will.

I'm not complaining about having less money for transfers. I was complaining about our 25 year old English midfielder being undervalued bacuse he's not playing for Spurs or Norwich.

http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=8356

Oh dear