England - Is it ALL McClaren's fault?

Just musing to myself about our national squad's current predicament....

How much of the blame can be placed on McClaren? Are the players as calpable? is it 50:50?

Personally think the players just can't be bothered to give 100% under him - I think on the surface they do, but deep down they secretly want him to be sacked and thus are only giving 80% whilst also being given shit tactics and playing out of position.

I have to admit that if McClaren was my manager I'd probably only give 80% in the hope that he would get sacked The players made no secret of it that they were far from happy at McClaren's appointment - how could the FA imbeciles have fucked this up so badly?!

Why is Gerrard wasted on the right?

I was thinking of starting a similar thread as well but lost the will to live.

Our players are over rated and McLaren is a fucking joke.

A deadly combination if ever I've seen one.

Rai Krol wrote:Why is Gerrard wasted on the right?

Because he does fuck all in the centre.

Parks lives wrote:

Rai Krol wrote:Why is Gerrard wasted on the right?

Because he does fuck all in the centre.

Better than Lampard.

Rai Krol wrote:Why is Gerrard wasted on the right?

Its not so much that he's wasted on the right - its that we have an imbecile of a midfielder in the centre and a right footed left winger that cuts in making us incredibly narrow. If he has to play on a wing it would be better if he played on the left and Lennon was on the right IMO.

Of course the whole problem could be solved simply by assassinating Lampard

Of course it is, before McLaren came along England were world-beaters.

Rai Krol wrote:

Parks lives wrote:

Rai Krol wrote:Why is Gerrard wasted on the right?

Because he does fuck all in the centre.

Better than Lampard.

So am I, I'd still be no use in the centre though.

toon h wrote:Of course it is, before McLaren came along England were world-beaters.

Thanks Toon.

toon h wrote:Of course it is, before McLaren came along England were world-beaters.

SGE had his flaws as well though - I think we all know that we don't necessarily have the best personnel but if we had a manager that could get us playing as a team and playing to our strengths at least we would play some decent football and our nation could have some pride over out team - I haven't felt overtly proud of our squad since our 1-0 defeat of the Argies in 2002 - and even then we weren't particularly good

Parks lives wrote:

Rai Krol wrote:

Parks lives wrote:

Rai Krol wrote:Why is Gerrard wasted on the right?

Because he does fuck all in the centre.

Better than Lampard.

So am I, I'd still be no use in the centre though.

Who should England play in the centre then?

Why McClaren bought Nugent along to face Andorra and Israel is beyond belief .. he will never play him .. BTW; England's main worry is the lack of 'feared' goalscorers .. who do it regularly in European football and internationally (Owen is the only one that fits that criteria) only Rooney and Defoe are playing in European football from the English forwards ... still Johnson can do the job in the league .. but is he the one for England?

McClaren will always play Lampard + Gerrard, he does not have the 'balls' to drop them.

You forgot Bent Rai - the only player that consistently poses a goalscoring threat in the EPL and that can score with both his head and his foot - someone we're lacking at present and that seems to have been chronically overlooked by the England management.

Course, when he moves to a BIG club, he'll get picked and start playing immedaitely. wankers

The solution is to bring back Scholes and Beckham.

Nope, we can blame all sorts of people

1) The coaches in this country who are all about 'grit and determination' rather than actual ability to control, run with and pass a football.

2) The national press, for overhyping the players only to knock them down. The players know that when they play for England the hype machine goes into overdrive (remember 'we're taking 23 world class players to Germany'?) but when they inevitably fail to perform that they'll get torn to shreds.

3) The gutless, overpaid players who believe that hype will win international matches.

4) McClaren, for picking the 11 most highly-reputed players he has available purely as a means of trying to deflect criticism. 'I picked the best team I could, it's not my fault if they don't perform'. This is a man who has picked three consecutive teams composed entirely of right-footed players, who plays our best centrehalf at fullback, our best attacking midfielder on the right wing, our best right winger on the left wing. He couldn't be less competent if he were trying to fuck up the national side.

5) Players such as Lampard, Rooney and Gerrard who simply do not perform well for England on a regular basis. And the press for making them undroppable. And McClaren for lacking the balls to drop them.

6) The word 'passion'. In every post-England game 606 phone in, I hear the phrase 'lacked passion' falling out of Mark Bright's mouth about once every 22 seconds. Passion is the middle class pundit's form of 'grit n determination', and is used by people who know literally nothing about football. Y'know, like the people who said that Peter Crouch was crap and he then went on to score as many goals in 1 year of international football as Rooney has scored in 4.

7) The failure to recognise that our best central midfield pairing is Hargreaves and Carrick, with Gerrard playing some role in front of them. Sven picked a midfield composed of four right-footed attacking midfielders (Cole, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard) which couldn't have been less balanced. McClaren has made the same sort of mistake, but done even worse with it.

English football fans. Most are illiterate chavs who say things like 'we're English, we play 4-4-2' and 'we lacked passion'. Our entire footballing culture is about glorifying the worst elements of working class society, despite most footballers earning several million a year for less than 100 hours of actual work.

Hargreaves and Carrick.

the problem is more and more what Spain are suffering from.

Most EPL teams are carried by foreign stars and the English players are more and more water-carriers. Once they are together in the team there is no clear leader and nobody is used to take responsibility.

5 & 8 Saints.

toon h wrote:the problem is more and more what Spain are suffering from.

Most EPL teams are carried by foreign stars and the English players are more and more water-carriers. Once they are together in the team there is no clear leader and nobody is used to take responsibility.

Not particularly true in Englands case with Neville, Gerrard and Terry though...

Some good points made all round.

Personally, for me you only have to look at the under21's in comparison with the senior team. Now there is a side that tries to play football, without the hype and spotlight and whole circus.

The players need to forget about egos, reputations, and just play, without fear and excuses..

The management need to pick the players who can do that job comfortably, from a tactical perspective.


at the moment, both are failing

@ saints

Totally agree - the combination of all these factors means that we're hugely underachieving at present and we're fst becoming the laughing stock of Europe.

I think in terms of the actual current squad though, the majority of these problems would be solved merely be getting rid of McClaren ASAP and bringing in someone with a reputation for not tolerating poor performances and for playing players based on form as well as their ability in that position, not a position somewhere else on the pitch that is relatively close...

McClaren at Boro was bankrolled for five years - he had a degree of success but along the way they played some mindnumbingly dull football, didn't do amazingly well in the league compared to the investment they achieved and not once did Mclaren sign a relatively average player and turn him into a top class player nor did he ever drop someone based on their lack of form

Tweedle wrote:

toon h wrote:the problem is more and more what Spain are suffering from.

Most EPL teams are carried by foreign stars and the English players are more and more water-carriers. Once they are together in the team there is no clear leader and nobody is used to take responsibility.

Not particularly true in Englands case with Neville, Gerrard and Terry though...

anyone calling that Gary "square-pass" Neville a Leistungsträger has to get passed me first.

Tuga wrote:The solution is to bring back Scholes and Beckham.

I hope neither come back for different reasons.

England's first-choice team is pretty good.

Strengths

Defence - in Neville, Rio, Terry and A Cole you have 4 CL-class defenders, plus you have loads of CB cover. If the fullbacks get injured you have to start looking to relatively inexperienced (at international level) players.

Central midfield - if all fit, you have to be able to make a functional unit out of 2 (or even 3) of Hargreaves, Carrick, Gerrard and Lampard. Joe Cole could play more centrally, too.

Weaknesses

Keeper - shit.

Wingers - very little natural width in the team, the exception being Aaron Lennon. Playing Gerrard on the right does Lennon no favours.

Strikers - Rooney is a class act but England do not play to his strengths. He is a poor target man/ lone striker and gets frustrated with lack of service. He either needs a target man to play off, or lots of movement and decent through balls from the attacking midfielders.

Manager - Arse. Elbow. Flipchart required.

Media - hype is deadly. See Italy in Euro 2006.

Tweedle wrote:@ saints

Totally agree - the combination of all these factors means that we're hugely underachieving at present and we're fst becoming the laughing stock of Europe.

Mate, we're already there. We've been shit since Euro 2004.

I think in terms of the actual current squad though, the majority of these problems would be solved merely be getting rid of McClaren ASAP and bringing in someone with a reputation for not tolerating poor performances and for playing players based on form as well as their ability in that position, not a position somewhere else on the pitch that is relatively close...

And preferably someone who can understand that picking different sorts of players produces different sorts of teams, rather than picking the most hyped XI and hoping it works (Sven did this too).

McClaren at Boro was bankrolled for five years - he had a degree of success but along the way they played some mindnumbingly dull football, didn't do amazingly well in the league compared to the investment they achieved and not once did Mclaren sign a relatively average player and turn him into a top class player nor did he ever drop someone based on their lack of form

McClaren is not an international class manager. That much is certain. He doesn't have the tactical nous, he doesn't have the guts to make the tough decisions and he cares far, far, far too much about the media. Should never have been given the job. FFS, me and you could run the England team better than he is at the moment.

Roger Hunt wrote:England's first-choice team is pretty good.

Strengths

Defence - in Neville, Rio, Terry and A Cole you have 4 CL-class defenders, plus you have loads of CB cover. If the fullbacks get injured you have to start looking to relatively inexperienced (at international level) players.

Gotta disagree with you there. Ashley Cole isn't good enough for the CL or international football. He can't head, has dreadful positioning that his pace covers up for in the league, he can't cross the ball, his attacking movement is ridiculous...

Wayne Bridge is twice the player Ashley Cole is.

Strikers - Rooney is a class act but England do not play to his strengths. He is a poor target man/ lone striker and gets frustrated with lack of service. He either needs a target man to play off, or lots of movement and decent through balls from the attacking midfielders.


Well said Roger.

He's been shite, I won't argue with that but we don't play to his strengths at all. All long balls and when he does come deep to link the play, Lampard is normally in his way.

St Saint wrote: [Gotta disagree with you there. Ashley Cole isn't good enough for the CL or international football. He can't head, has dreadful positioning that his pace covers up for in the league, he can't cross the ball, his attacking movement is ridiculous...

Wayne Bridge is twice the player Ashley Cole is.

Saint, it's OK, he's not an Arsenal player any more, you don't have to hate him now...

OK, kidding aside - maybe you're right. But the fact is that he's held down a first-team place in a side that has been in the champions league for the past 5-ish seasons, and England are playing him in his preferred position. That's a fair benchmark of a good quality player for me.

St Saint wrote: McClaren is not an international class manager. That much is certain. He doesn't have the tactical nous, he doesn't have the guts to make the tough decisions and he cares far, far, far too much about the media. Should never have been given the job.

And that is why the FA, who also have no guts, know f-all about football, and are also obsessed with media opinion, gave him the job.

Roger Hunt wrote:

St Saint wrote: McClaren is not an international class manager. That much is certain. He doesn't have the tactical nous, he doesn't have the guts to make the tough decisions and he cares far, far, far too much about the media. Should never have been given the job.

And that is why the FA, who also have no guts, know f-all about football, and are also obsessed with media opinion, gave him the job.

But they first went for Scolari. A man that called the Portuguese journalists «Ignorant wankers that know nothing of football» during a press conference.
It would have been interesting to see him in press conferences as the England manager.

Scolari as england manager would have been ace. Dont think he'd ve thought twice about dropping the big names. Expect the likes of LFumps and co. wouldve "got the 'ump" if that'd happened and gone moaning to the press.

O'Neill, Hiddink and Scolari were my personal top 3. Out of the England managers, I'dve loved to see Harry redknapp get it. Hugely underrated manager, all his team play attractively, what he did at West Ham and Portsmouth were just as good if not better than Mclaren's credentials at Boro