HomeDark Savante wrote:Gerrard got a 9 in those sky ratings , a 9 for fook sake.
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Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
S4P- Number of posts : 14358
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- Post n°841
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by S4P Thu May 24, 2007 10:16 am
Isco Benny- Number of posts : 19647
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- Post n°842
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Isco Benny Thu May 24, 2007 10:16 am
Liverpool were mugged. I dont support either team, but Milans victory swung on that free kick, nothing else.
Deserved it for games in the earlier rounds, particularly V Man United,
but from a finals only stand point - the more adventurous side on the night lost (ironic given we all thought Milan would do the attacking and Liverpool the defending)
Deserved it for games in the earlier rounds, particularly V Man United,
but from a finals only stand point - the more adventurous side on the night lost (ironic given we all thought Milan would do the attacking and Liverpool the defending)
Tweesus- Number of posts : 34851
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- Post n°843
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Tweesus Thu May 24, 2007 10:17 am
Gerrard wasn't actually that bad. Certainly did warrant the 4s that some people gave him in the ratings.
Course is commonplace on here to knock Gerrard. In that game Gerrard was miles better than Alonso yet some people gave Alonso a better rating. nnow THAT is hilarious
Course is commonplace on here to knock Gerrard. In that game Gerrard was miles better than Alonso yet some people gave Alonso a better rating. nnow THAT is hilarious
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
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- Post n°844
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Parks lives Thu May 24, 2007 10:21 am
S4P2 wrote:Dark Savante wrote:Gerrard got a 9 in those sky ratings , a 9 for fook sake.
Again
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- Post n°845
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Liverpool 0 - 1 Man U Thu May 24, 2007 10:34 am
Bash: 
This match wasn't even comparable to '05. Milan were not dominated in any sense whatsoever. Liverpool didn't create anything last night which wasn't because of a Milanese defensive mistake (just look at the Gerrard one on one which must have contained about three deflections!).
This match wasn't even comparable to '05. Milan were not dominated in any sense whatsoever. Liverpool didn't create anything last night which wasn't because of a Milanese defensive mistake (just look at the Gerrard one on one which must have contained about three deflections!).
S4P- Number of posts : 14358
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- Post n°846
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by S4P Thu May 24, 2007 10:45 am
Tweedle wrote:Gerrard wasn't actually that bad. Certainly did warrant the 4s that some people gave him in the ratings.
Course is commonplace on here to knock Gerrard. In that game Gerrard was miles better than Alonso yet some people gave Alonso a better rating. nnow THAT is hilarious
Like Henry in last year's final, Gerrard had a couple of great chances to win the game.
He barely got on the ball all night.
Roger Hunt- Number of posts : 10115
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- Post n°847
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Roger Hunt Thu May 24, 2007 10:52 am
S4P2 wrote: Gerrard had a couple of great chances to win the game.
He barely got on the ball all night.
Tweesus- Number of posts : 34851
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- Post n°848
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Tweesus Thu May 24, 2007 11:03 am
S4P2 wrote:Tweedle wrote:Gerrard wasn't actually that bad. Certainly did warrant the 4s that some people gave him in the ratings.
Course is commonplace on here to knock Gerrard. In that game Gerrard was miles better than Alonso yet some people gave Alonso a better rating. nnow THAT is hilarious
Like Henry in last year's final, Gerrard had a couple of great chances to win the game.
He barely got on the ball all night.
Barely got on the ball - Alonso barely got on the ball! AND he gave away the foul that gave Milan the crucial goal + he conceded possession in dangerous areas all night long.
You must have been watching a different game to me, because Alonso for me played a hell of a lot worse than Gerrard did
S4P- Number of posts : 14358
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- Post n°849
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by S4P Thu May 24, 2007 11:05 am
Not saying that Alonso played well at all, but Gerrard was very poor too.
Tweesus- Number of posts : 34851
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Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Tweesus Thu May 24, 2007 11:06 am
S4P2 wrote:Not saying that Alonso played well at all, but Gerrard was very poor too.
He wasn't poor, he may well have been poor for what is expected of him(being Liverpool's main man) but in the grand scheme of things he had no worse a game than most of Liverpool's attacking players and better than most
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Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Roger Hunt Thu May 24, 2007 11:13 am
OwenThomas4 wrote:Bash:
This match wasn't even comparable to '05. Milan were not dominated in any sense whatsoever. Liverpool didn't create anything last night which wasn't because of a Milanese defensive mistake (just look at the Gerrard one on one which must have contained about three deflections!).
Territorial advantage
Milan 36.5% / Liverpool 63.5%
110%- Number of posts : 8978
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Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by 110% Thu May 24, 2007 11:19 am
Gerrard is along with henry one of the most picked on players on this forum.
That's why his rating is singled out and not anyone else. The sky ratings are just wrong.
Pirlo got an 8, gattuso got a 7, kuyt got an 8, and zenden got a 7. All these sky rating are way too high, but gerrard is the only one people have a problem with.
That's why his rating is singled out and not anyone else. The sky ratings are just wrong.
Pirlo got an 8, gattuso got a 7, kuyt got an 8, and zenden got a 7. All these sky rating are way too high, but gerrard is the only one people have a problem with.
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
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- Post n°853
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Parks lives Thu May 24, 2007 11:21 am
110% wrote:Gerrard is along with henry one of the most picked on players on this forum.
Do we have a violin smiley?
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Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Tom Thu May 24, 2007 11:23 am
:violin:
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Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Tom Thu May 24, 2007 11:23 am
nope guess not
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Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Tom Thu May 24, 2007 11:24 am
Tom- Number of posts : 12185
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- Post n°857
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Tom Thu May 24, 2007 11:24 am
there we go
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
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Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Parks lives Thu May 24, 2007 11:24 am
Tweesus- Number of posts : 34851
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Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Tweesus Thu May 24, 2007 11:25 am
gays
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- Post n°860
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Rez Thu May 24, 2007 12:57 pm
110% wrote:Well done Milan. Unlucky Liverpool.
I am amazed at the bitterness of some posters who can't give credit to liverpool for being the better team. Sometimes the better team doesn't win and that's football. 2 years ago milan were the better team and lost, this time it was liverpool.
In this case Liverpool's final ball was just not right whether from zenden or pennant, and every long range shot from riise, alonso and gerrard was off-target, and usually they'd hit the target at least sometimes, and with dida in poor form who knows what could have happened. Gerrard should have scored against dida and it is on small moments like that that games are decided. I have long said that Liverpool lack a clinical striker and that is why they don't win games they dominate. The first goal is always the hardest to score.
Add to that a bit of luck with the free kick, and then a great run to beat the off-side trap and great finish from inzaghi from one of very few attacks from milan and the game was over. Milan were poor but maybe this is becasue of the way liverpool played. However they remianed solid defensively and were clinical in front of goal.
As for benitez's management, he deserves credit for his tactics that made liverpool the more attacking team and stopped milan playing well by having hardworking players like zenden rather than kewel, and having gerrard supporting in attack rather than crouch that made it difficult for milan to take it easy at the back and got them really tired. His only real mistake is that he should have brought crouch on earlier, maybe for alonso rather than maschereno. He can't really make the players cross it better or shoot better. The players have got to carry the blame for that.
Earlier in the thread I wondered "if liverpool are the more attacking team will they get appreciation from the neutrals" but looks like in general it is not the case. Respect to manu fans like rez and dark savante who are able to give respect to rivals. Some of the Cr@p from other posters makes me wonder if they can ever be objective about football.
Last thing about inzaghi. I can't help liking the guy. Maybe he has an annoying face and he dives a lot and he is not that skilful, but people don't overrate him and he doesn't overrate himself, but he scores and that's his job and he does it well. Well done to him.
I never normally defend Liverpool, but they impressed me last night. I was expecting $h!t on a stick, but they attacked more than Milan. I was one of there biggest critics after the Chelsea game, but they tried to play football, they just lacked the quality and the luck to win the game and you cant fault a team for trying to win a game.
I will always try and give credit where it is due, however on these agenda driven boards, its quite hard to do so.
PS you ruined a good post with the Inzaghi comment at the end.
DS- Number of posts : 12952
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Best Of British Exposed Gaping Holes
Posted 24/05/07 11:12EmailPrintSave
In ancient Greece, they lost it a second time.
Yet in defeat Liverpool surely won a degree of respect, however grudging from some quarters, even as Milan lifted the trophy for the seventh time. This was a better overall performance than they managed in 2005 or than Arsenal did in 2006 or Manchester United did in 1999. This was the best performance in a European Cup final by a side from these shores since Graeme Souness led his men to victory on penalties on Roma's home ground in 1984. It ended in defeat because despite the gameplan working for long periods the execution was lacking in the crucial area - and, unlike in 2005, the breaks went Milan's way.
There will be criticism of Rafael Benitez's tactics and certainly the introduction of Peter Crouch should have come earlier. But there was nothing wrong with the initial plan, which made Milan's status as favourites look misplaced.
The lack of a second striker was apparently due, to quote the front page of the site, to a lack of 'balls'. But placing Steven Gerrard where he could do the most damage while having the fewest defensive responsibilities was not a negative move. The player himself will be replaying that one-on-one, especially. Nor was the selection of two wide men a sign of caution.
You could see why Benitez had picked Jermaine Pennant, and you could see why most people have doubts about him. He hassled well and dealt with his early shot in what appeared to be a sensible manner, aiming for the far post and forcing Dida to parry into what could have been the path of a red shirt.
The difficulty, given some of Pennant's other decisions, is that you have to wonder whether he just got lucky on that occasion.
Similarly with Bolo Zenden, most notably when he showed a lack of trust in his captain when presented with a chance to cross. Gerrard was there, close to the six-yard box, but Zenden could not see him and failed to try to find him, hesitation leading to a goal-kick.
None the less, the tactics and especially Gerrard's hassling and the hard work of Dirk Kuyt created what were effectively counterattacking opportunities within 30 yards of the Milan goal. Meanwhile, Javier Mascherano was doing a fine job of shackling Kaka and Milan were plainly second best. But not on the scoreboard.
Xabi Alonso fouled early and often, so it was more a surprise that he wasn't booked than that he gave away a free-kick in a dangerous area. Andrea Pirlo's shot was covered but not the deflection from Pippo Inzaghi.
And if Liverpool's shape was less effective when they were in possession and had a shortage of men in the penalty area, it worked less well once Milan had a lead to try to protect. More than once Kuyt was out on the wing, crossing into an area where Kuyt himself should have been waiting.
Benitez was left looking for a way to change it, lucky not to be 2-0 down after Kaka was flagged when only Inzaghi, admittedly close to the ball, had strayed too far forward.
And that first substitution shows where things have gone wrong for the Spaniard: in the transfer market. The fact that the eternally convalescent Harry Kewell was next man up shows that the attempts to add width to the strong central base have failed. Pennant is getting on a bit to be that raw but has probably done enough to earn another season; Zenden, Mark Gonzalez and Kewell have contributed next to nothing.
But I'm pretty sure the Liverpool manager knows all this, as his previous attempts to sign Simao Sabrosa, for instance, demonstrate. Get that right and his team will be a very awkward proposition whoever is signed or picked up front.
It was a sound enough plan but did not produce a goal and so had to be changed; perhaps the hesitation was fatal. Mascherano was unlucky to be withdrawn, perhaps the result of a booking that he had done little to deserve, compared to Alonso. Kaka used the newfound space to set up Inzaghi for a goal the striker took very well.
And, despite Kuyt's late (offside?) effort, that was that, with a little help from Herbert Fandel's timekeeping. It was a much better spectacle than Saturday's FA Cup final and it's a shame there wasn't more of it - at least 45 seconds.
You could understand Benitez's immediate annoyance and be relieved that he played down the incident in interviews. Perhaps he realised that though Liverpool were going home losers, they had come a long way in two years. The question is, can they keep progressing?
In 2005 we saw an unrepeatable match in which the gulf between the sides appeared all but unbridgeable for long periods. This was a match between two equals - I wonder if there will be more sequels, and where the balance of power will lie if there are.
Philip Cornwall
Posted 24/05/07 11:12EmailPrintSave
In ancient Greece, they lost it a second time.
Yet in defeat Liverpool surely won a degree of respect, however grudging from some quarters, even as Milan lifted the trophy for the seventh time. This was a better overall performance than they managed in 2005 or than Arsenal did in 2006 or Manchester United did in 1999. This was the best performance in a European Cup final by a side from these shores since Graeme Souness led his men to victory on penalties on Roma's home ground in 1984. It ended in defeat because despite the gameplan working for long periods the execution was lacking in the crucial area - and, unlike in 2005, the breaks went Milan's way.
There will be criticism of Rafael Benitez's tactics and certainly the introduction of Peter Crouch should have come earlier. But there was nothing wrong with the initial plan, which made Milan's status as favourites look misplaced.
The lack of a second striker was apparently due, to quote the front page of the site, to a lack of 'balls'. But placing Steven Gerrard where he could do the most damage while having the fewest defensive responsibilities was not a negative move. The player himself will be replaying that one-on-one, especially. Nor was the selection of two wide men a sign of caution.
You could see why Benitez had picked Jermaine Pennant, and you could see why most people have doubts about him. He hassled well and dealt with his early shot in what appeared to be a sensible manner, aiming for the far post and forcing Dida to parry into what could have been the path of a red shirt.
The difficulty, given some of Pennant's other decisions, is that you have to wonder whether he just got lucky on that occasion.
Similarly with Bolo Zenden, most notably when he showed a lack of trust in his captain when presented with a chance to cross. Gerrard was there, close to the six-yard box, but Zenden could not see him and failed to try to find him, hesitation leading to a goal-kick.
None the less, the tactics and especially Gerrard's hassling and the hard work of Dirk Kuyt created what were effectively counterattacking opportunities within 30 yards of the Milan goal. Meanwhile, Javier Mascherano was doing a fine job of shackling Kaka and Milan were plainly second best. But not on the scoreboard.
Xabi Alonso fouled early and often, so it was more a surprise that he wasn't booked than that he gave away a free-kick in a dangerous area. Andrea Pirlo's shot was covered but not the deflection from Pippo Inzaghi.
And if Liverpool's shape was less effective when they were in possession and had a shortage of men in the penalty area, it worked less well once Milan had a lead to try to protect. More than once Kuyt was out on the wing, crossing into an area where Kuyt himself should have been waiting.
Benitez was left looking for a way to change it, lucky not to be 2-0 down after Kaka was flagged when only Inzaghi, admittedly close to the ball, had strayed too far forward.
And that first substitution shows where things have gone wrong for the Spaniard: in the transfer market. The fact that the eternally convalescent Harry Kewell was next man up shows that the attempts to add width to the strong central base have failed. Pennant is getting on a bit to be that raw but has probably done enough to earn another season; Zenden, Mark Gonzalez and Kewell have contributed next to nothing.
But I'm pretty sure the Liverpool manager knows all this, as his previous attempts to sign Simao Sabrosa, for instance, demonstrate. Get that right and his team will be a very awkward proposition whoever is signed or picked up front.
It was a sound enough plan but did not produce a goal and so had to be changed; perhaps the hesitation was fatal. Mascherano was unlucky to be withdrawn, perhaps the result of a booking that he had done little to deserve, compared to Alonso. Kaka used the newfound space to set up Inzaghi for a goal the striker took very well.
And, despite Kuyt's late (offside?) effort, that was that, with a little help from Herbert Fandel's timekeeping. It was a much better spectacle than Saturday's FA Cup final and it's a shame there wasn't more of it - at least 45 seconds.
You could understand Benitez's immediate annoyance and be relieved that he played down the incident in interviews. Perhaps he realised that though Liverpool were going home losers, they had come a long way in two years. The question is, can they keep progressing?
In 2005 we saw an unrepeatable match in which the gulf between the sides appeared all but unbridgeable for long periods. This was a match between two equals - I wonder if there will be more sequels, and where the balance of power will lie if there are.
Philip Cornwall
Rafalution- Number of posts : 107
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- Post n°862
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Rafalution Thu May 24, 2007 1:42 pm
kas wrote:I think we might see a Man. Utd. vs. Bayern Munich style finish today...
You were close!
No one mentioned that 360 turn by kaka, then by Alonso!
That was great, but i admit Kaka's one was better!
The Pröfessör- Number of posts : 10076
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- Post n°863
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by The Pröfessör Thu May 24, 2007 1:45 pm
Pool will dominate the CL in the coming years in a similar manner Milan have done in the past few years. They have reached 2 finals in 3 years with a lot of average players, Imagine what they'd be like when they replace some of those players with real quality..
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- Post n°864
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Parks lives Thu May 24, 2007 1:47 pm
Agooner wrote:Pool will dominate the CL in the coming years in a similar manner Milan have done in the past few years. They have reached 2 finals in 3 years with a lot of average players, Imagine what they'd be like when they replace some of those players with real quality..
Thats a bit simplistic though.
He'll still have them playing his way whatever players he brings in and it's not easy to buy real quality either.
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- Post n°865
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by 110% Thu May 24, 2007 1:55 pm
Parks lives wrote:Agooner wrote:Pool will dominate the CL in the coming years in a similar manner Milan have done in the past few years. They have reached 2 finals in 3 years with a lot of average players, Imagine what they'd be like when they replace some of those players with real quality..
Thats a bit simplistic though.
He'll still have them playing his way whatever players he brings in and it's not easy to buy real quality either.
whilst I don't think they will dominate because teams like barca, real, inter and chelsea will get better, the way benitez has his teams playing (ie better than the opposition) he will always be pretty close
Liverpool have been the best team in the CL this year.
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Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Parks lives Thu May 24, 2007 1:58 pm
Hello 110% 
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Agooner wrote:Pool will dominate the CL in the coming years in a similar manner Milan have done in the past few years. They have reached 2 finals in 3 years with a lot of average players, Imagine what they'd be like when they replace some of those players with real quality..
Depends on how they do in the league.
If they continue to finish 3rd and 4th, they will dominate the CL.
If they challenge for the title their presence in the CL won't be as big.
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- Post n°868
Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by 110% Thu May 24, 2007 2:03 pm
Parks lives wrote:Hello 110%
and ??
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110% wrote:
Liverpool have been the best team in the CL this year.
A sweeping statement. Very debatable.
Last edited by on Thu May 24, 2007 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Liverpool Vs Milan the champions league final thread
by Tweesus Thu May 24, 2007 2:04 pm
S4P2 wrote:Agooner wrote:Pool will dominate the CL in the coming years in a similar manner Milan have done in the past few years. They have reached 2 finals in 3 years with a lot of average players, Imagine what they'd be like when they replace some of those players with real quality..
Depends on how they do in the league.
If they continue to finish 3rd and 4th, they will dominate the CL.
If they challenge for the title their presence in the CL won't be as big.
That arguement seems weak. Even by the semi's Liverpool were still playing competitively in the league, it was only in the last 43 games they started truly resting players.
Liverpool beat Chelsea on penalties it could have gone either way. I think the 'challenging in the league so $h!t in the cup' arguement is a bit flimsy - I think its more to do with the cup competiton being tinged with luck
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