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    Howard omission to be probed !

    Sgoater1
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    Post by Sgoater1 Sun May 06, 2007 12:23 pm

    The Premier League is to investigate why Tim Howard did not play in Everton's 4-2 defeat to Manchester United.

    Howard was left out of the game at Goodison Park last weekend as part of the agreement which saw the keeper complete a permanent switch to The Toffees in February.

    The United States international originally joined Everton on loan, but signed a five-year contract after United accepted an undisclosed offer.

    Toffees boss David Moyes confirmed prior to the game that Howard would be omitted from his side as a result of the deal struck with the Premiership leaders.

    But the Premier League has confirmed it will ask the two clubs about the agreement as it could contravene league regulations.

    "We will be contacting both clubs as a matter of urgency to find out what has gone on," Premier League spokesman Dan Johnson told the News of the World.

    "As Howard's is a permanent transfer there is no reason why he could not have played against Manchester United.

    "Had such a clause been included in the transfer we would not have allowed it - it would have been a clear case of third party interference.

    "We certainly have no record of an agreement between Everton and United that Howard could not play on April 28."

    West Ham United were recently fined £5.5million for fielding Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano, who were owned by a third party.
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Sun May 06, 2007 12:48 pm

    how much money would cash strapped Everton get if United win the title?
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    Post by Parks lives Sun May 06, 2007 12:49 pm

    Been discussing this in the United thread.

    I'd like to know how the deal went through, without the Premier league properly sanctioning it.
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Sun May 06, 2007 12:54 pm

    Parks lives wrote:Been discussing this in the United thread.

    I'd like to know how the deal went through, without the Premier league properly sanctioning it.

    gentleman's agreement?

    normally works the other way - if a big club poach a smaller clubs star player he sometimes doesn't play against them if there's a game soon after. It's usually to protect the 'traitor' from angry fans though.
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    Post by COTR Sun May 06, 2007 1:16 pm

    they should also probe phil neville's involvement in united winning the title while they are at it

    the hugs and kisses after the game with fergus were a little bit too suspect

    30 point deduction.. or better still follow italy's example and relegate them
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Sun May 06, 2007 4:37 pm

    COTR wrote:follow italy's example and relegate them

    ok

    that's the precedent
    Liverpool 0 - 1 Man U
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    Post by Liverpool 0 - 1 Man U Sun May 06, 2007 4:39 pm

    Only if it happened to both us and Chelsea would you ever win the league again so I can see why you like the suggestion Smile
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    Post by Rosicky Sun May 06, 2007 4:40 pm

    OwenThomas4 wrote:Only if it happened to both us and Chelsea would you ever win the league again so I can see why you like the suggestion Smile

    and arsenal.

    pool are gonna finish 4th Smile
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Sun May 06, 2007 4:43 pm

    OwenThomas4 wrote:Only if it happened to both us and Chelsea would you ever win the league again so I can see why you like the suggestion Smile

    I'm only interested in justice Roger
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    Post by Batman Sun May 06, 2007 5:14 pm

    The Premier League has confirmed neither Manchester United or Everton have broken any rules regarding Tim Howard's transfer.

    Howard joined Everton on a season-long loan deal last summer, before the move became permanent in February.

    Questions were raised over the transfer when Howard did not feature against United in the recent clash between the two sides at Goodison Park.

    The League contacted the two clubs to find out why the American goalkeeper was not involved as it would not have allowed the deal to be made permanent if United had requested a clause preventing Howard from playing against them.

    However, after investigating the matter the League has cleared both clubs of any wrongdoing.

    A statement from the Premier League said: "At the time of Tim Howard's permanent transfer from Manchester United to Everton, the Premier League ensured there were no agreements in place that contravened our rules.

    "As a result of recent comments we had sought further clarification from both clubs and are satisfied that it remains the case that there were no agreements that breached any of our rules.

    "Everton were free to play Tim Howard in their fixture against Manchester United had they so wished - and this has been confirmed by both clubs."
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Sun May 06, 2007 5:17 pm

    Batman wrote:

    "Everton were free to play Tim Howard in their fixture against Manchester United had they so wished - and this has been confirmed by both clubs."

    so he didn't play because Everton want the money from the Rooney deal?
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    Post by DS Sun May 06, 2007 6:01 pm

    According to Section M of the Premier League Rules governing the Transfer of Players' Registrations, Rule M.1 describes Transfer Windows and states; "“Transfer Windows” means the 2 periods in a year during which, subject to Rule M.4, a Club may apply for the New Registration of a player or to have the registration of a player transferred to it or for a Temporary Transfer."

    Rule M.4 states that, "Outside a Transfer Window the Board in its absolute discretion may refuse an application or grant an application and, if thought fit, impose conditions by which the Club making the application and the player shall be bound."

    What it's basically saying is that a transfer can be agreed between two clubs outside of the transfer window.


    The conditions of a Temporary Transfer (loan) are as follows:

    [color=#000000][color=#ff0000]"
    7.1 a Temporary Transfer to a Club may not take place in the Transfer Window in which the Transferor Club acquired the Player's registration.ie. You can't sign a player and loan him straight out.

    "
    7.2 during the period of the Temporary Transfer of his contract registration a Player shall not play against the Transferor Club.
    It is Premier League rules that a loaned player cannot play against his own club.


    To summarise;
    The rules state that both loans and transfers and can be agreed outside of the transfer window but players cannot move straight away - only during the transfer window.

    In the situation with Tim Howard, he is currently under the terms of a loan deal between Manchester United and Everton which was agreed in May 2006 and effected during the summer transfer window of 2006.

    Manchester United and Everton then agreed a permanent transfer but
    this will not take effect until May 14th 2007.

    Currently, Tim Howard is still under the terms of a loan agreement.


    Read the rules , thats why he didnt play.
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Sun May 06, 2007 9:19 pm

    so Everton don't want the money from the Rooney deal?

    why did Phil Neville score an own goal? What does he personally stand to gain?
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    Post by Lard Sun May 06, 2007 9:43 pm

    Take the 3 points back wont make a difference
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    Post by Roger Hunt Mon May 07, 2007 11:27 am

    Yeah, but take the 3pts back and a 10pt deduction for match-fixing would Wink
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    Post by shazlx Wed May 09, 2007 1:57 pm

    If anyones still interested in this story then heres the times view which finds ManU/Everton guilty of 3rd party interference in squd list:

    Rules? Next they’ll be getting away with murder
    Martin Samuel says the cosy arrangement between Manchester United and Everton that prevented Tim Howard from playing against his former club sets a dangerous precedent. Have your say belowMartin Samuel
    Columbo Hey, I’m sorry, I’m making a pest of myself.

    Ken Naw!

    Columbo Yes, yes I am. I know, it’s because I keep asking these questions, but I’ll tell ya, I can’t help myself. It’s a habit. (Murder by the Book, series one, episode one.)

    Typical. You wait all season for an FA Premier League whitewash and then two come along at once. And what a cracker, that second one. Alastair Campbell would be proud.

    On Sunday morning, it was revealed that the League was investigating Everton and Manchester United over the transfer of Tim Howard and his subsequent failure to appear in a match between the clubs on April 28; and then on Sunday afternoon it announced the matter considered and closed. Wow. You can’t get service like that anywhere on a Bank Holiday weekend usually. I once queried a parking ticket with Islington council and it dragged on for three months.

    No disrespect, but under normal circumstances the Premier League’s approach to time-keeping is bordering on Caribbean. For instance, Carlos T鶥z and Javier Mascherano signed for West Ham United on August 31, 2006, and the new owners disclosed the third-party arrangements governing the deal on January 24, 2007. It took until March 2 for the club to be charged and April 27 for an independent commission to hear fully the evidence and punish.

    Yet at approximately 5pm on Friday, May 4, a Premier League spokesman confirmed to me that there would be an investigation into the Howard transfer, and at half-time in the match between Arsenal and Chelsea on Sunday, May 6, the same gentleman called to announce the deal had received the green light.

    Columbo You know how a person always does something one way and then he suddenly does something another way? I immediately think . . . (taps head). (Playback, series four, episode five.)

    And no doubt it was circumstantial that within an hour, Sir Alex Ferguson, the Manchester United manager, was due to be in front of the cameras, the Premiership title secure, glass of celebratory champagne in one hand, sponsors name plastered over the backdrop, but there does seem a degree of expediency about this conclusion. Not to mention a dash of the crass, the craven and the reckless in a decision that paves the way for football to become a veritable Dodge City of side deals, quid pro quos and clandestine alliances.

    To recap, last week, in this column, I raised the issue of Howard’s withdrawal from the match between Everton and Manchester United at Goodison Park. As Howard had become a permanent signing for Everton on February 14, 2007 (loan deals are not subject to the constraints of the transfer window and can be completed at any time, with no further performance restrictions), there was no reason why he should not have played.

    Instead, Everton fielded an understudy, Iain Turner, who was directly responsible for United’s first goal and partly at fault for the second. Everton said that as a condition of making the deal permanent. there had been an agreement that Howard would not play against United if the title race was still live. This would be a clear case of third-party interference and demonstrated inconsistency on the part of the Premier League.

    The following day I was contacted by Dan Johnson, of the Premier League, to take issue, saying that Howard had no such clause in his contract and the League would not have allowed it because it would be a breach of third-party rules. I told him the information had come directly from Everton, on the record and without persuasion. It had been stated as a matter of fact, in response to a straight question about Howard’s absence. David Moyes, the Everton manager, had also made no secret of it in his press briefings before the game. There was a short silence, which I broke by asking if the Premier League would now investigate, as there appeared to be a serious discrepancy. Johnson said he would get back to me.

    After no word and several telephone calls, late on Friday afternoon, Johnson did confirm that there would be an investigation as there was no paperwork to suggest Howard should not have played. And on Sunday, with United’s ninth Premiership title less than an hour away, Johnson confirmed that the matter had been swiftly resolved. Having spoken to both clubs, he could verify there was no written agreement that Howard could not play. But, of course, we knew that.

    “So, if Howard could have played, why didn’t he?” I asked. “I don’t know, you’ll have to ask Everton,” Johnson said. But I had asked Everton, the previous week. Everton said Howard did not play because of an arrangement with Manchester United; and its existence in writing was no longer the issue.

    Columbo I was just wondering because your beach house and his beach house, they’re fairly close, aren’t they?

    Brimmer No. It’s a couple of miles.

    Columbo That close! Isn’t that a coincidence? I’ll tell ya, this case is just full of ’em. (Death Lends A Hand, series one, episode two.)

    For the record, these are the other Everton matches in which Moyes chose not to play Howard this season: Peterborough United (away), League Cup, September 19, 2006; Luton Town (home), League Cup, October 24, 2006. And then United at home at a time when Everton were fighting tooth and nail for a Uefa Cup place. Draw your own conclusions.

    Columbo You turned the radio down but not quite off when I told you Eric Wagner was dead. It’s all right. I do the same thing. You know, when I’m listening to the game and my wife interrupts. I can’t help myself. I want to hear that game and I don’t care how important the interruption. (The Most Crucial Game, series two, episode three.)

    And we’re not that different to the lieutenant. I think United are the best team in the country and perhaps the most exciting in Europe. Like a great many people, I hoped that commitment to the beautiful game would be rewarded with the league title. Yet the next day there were forests dedicated to the glory of their title win and no mention of the inconvenient little scandal that the Premier League had brushed under the carpet to wave it through untroubled. And the fact that, again, the happy ending was placed before sporting good is alarming.

    Yes, technically, third-party interference does carry the threat of a points deduction, but considering the precedent set over the transfers of T鶥z and Mascherano, nothing could really have spoilt Ferguson’s champagne moment. There would have been no deduction of points even if the Premier League had investigated fully, rather than taking a coward’s way out. And that was its duty. Vital issues were at stake; and still are.

    Columbo Well, what do you know, here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn’t even notice. (The Bye-Bye Sky High I.Q. Murder Case, series six, episode three.)

    The Premier League argues that, with nothing in writing, the most Everton could have been charged with is not fielding their best team, and the horse bolted from that stable long ago. Yet the Howard case does not equate to, for instance, the shadow Liverpool XI that lost to Fulham last week. That Liverpool team, full strength or not, was selected by Rafael BenÍtez, the Liverpool manager. The Howard selection was, by Everton’s initial admission, subject to the wishes of Manchester United.

    So what is there to stop a similar raft of convenient understandings taking place this weekend, with relegation at stake? Could close friends Paul Jewell, of Wigan Athletic, and Neil Warnock, of Sheffield United, come to an agreement? What about the equally convivial Ferguson and Alan Curbishley, the West Ham manager? “Maybe next season I will need to call some of my friends,” Jos頍ourinho, the Chelsea manager, deadpanned on hearing of the Premier League decision. And, while that may not form an exhaustive list, kinship is not required to make a deal work; just mutual interest.

    Indeed, as long as nobody puts it in writing, what is there to stop the Premier League becoming a powder-keg of alliances, given that the governing body displays no desire to operate as anything more than a glorified fixtures secretary? Gentlemen’s agreements are notoriously hard to prove; but the one around Howard was not. Many statements were matters of record or had third-party corroboration. At the very least, there was enough information to issue a warning; or show the Premier League cared.

    Columbo See, now there you go. You’re looking at your watch again.

    Roger Stanford Will you do me a favour? Will you please keep quiet?

    Columbo Why? It’s only a dumb theory of mine. (Short Fuse, series one, episode six.)

    OK, I’ll be brief. The point is that the moment the Premier League loses the motivation to govern or accepts that certain aspects of the business of football can no longer be governed, the game takes a sinister turn. The cosy arrangement that took Howard out of a critical match this season could one day be replaced by something considerably more cynical, by two unscrupulous owners or managers, for money. And nothing will be in writing then, either.

    Managers are already talking quite openly about the need for certain clubs to play fair and field the strongest teams on the final day of the season. This is how it began in Italy. And we know where it ended.
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    Post by Parks lives Wed May 09, 2007 2:02 pm

    Its the exactly the same circumstances Liverpool had with Fowler against Man City and Chelsea had with Parker after he signed from Charlton.

    No one seemed to moan then.


    Also Samuel has a column with the news of the World and he even praised Fergie for his management and foresight on this very issue two Sundays ago.
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    Post by Roger Hunt Wed May 09, 2007 2:53 pm

    True Parks. But then neither Man City/Liverpool nor Charlton/Chelsea had the other circumstances (i.e. an ex-player and brother of a current player gifting you a goal, and Everton standing to benefit financially if you won the league because of Rooney's transfer terms).

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