Italian football--the best

Last summer, during the depravity of Moggipoli, pundits all over Europe were once again primed to sound the death knell for Italian football. It was everything that the skeptics (plenty of them around) dreamed of: Italian football, a cynical brand of the beautiful game, was even rotten at its administrative core.

Juventus, Milan, Lazio, and Fiorentina faced the threat of Serie B as Italy prepared for the World Cup.

Then, Italy's triumph against France in the World Cup Final proved to the world that Italian players are amongst the best in the world, and with a World Cup win under their belt, OFFICIALLY THE best in the world.

Still, the usual imbeciles and pundits rummaged around for the usual excuses and apologetics. My favourite was that man for man England were just as good, if not better.

Anyway, Italy won, Juve were relegated, Milan, Fiorentina, and Lazio stayed in Serie A, but with a points penalty.

It was precisely at this point that moralists came out of the woodwork with their strident diatribes against Italian football. Italian football had solved nothing, they said, in variously irksome ways.

Many of them, however, took solace in the fact that Serie A would never be able to match the Prem or La Liga when it came to the business on the pitch. Even on this board, COTR said, "That's it, Italy will never be able to compete with the Prem and La Liga now."

So with Serie A out of the way, this was supposed to be the year when Italian teams would meekly surrender and buckle under the pressure.

How wrong they were. After Milan completely humiliated Manchester United 3-0 (a total demolition), they met Liverpool, a team that were extremely fortunate to have beaten them in Istanbul. This time they set the record straight with a canny 2-1 win. Liverpool were had at their own game, and it was incredibly satisfying to watch.

So just to recap:

1) Italy are the best footballing nation in the world currently.
2) Milan (an Italian club) are the best team in Europe.

All the silverware that matters is where it belongs.

Forza Italia! Forza Milan!

Milan deserved to win the CL, but history shouldn't forget this footnote - they were only allowed in the competition because of a court decision, that too, after appeal.

kas wrote:Milan deserved to win the CL, but history shouldn't forget this footnote - they were only allowed in the competition because of a court decision, that too, after appeal.

...and they were $h!t in the final and needed a deflection to get them on their way.

Effenberg wrote:

kas wrote:Milan deserved to win the CL, but history shouldn't forget this footnote - they were only allowed in the competition because of a court decision, that too, after appeal.

...and they were $h!t in the final and needed a deflection to get them on their way.

and your point is...?

Congratulations to AC Milan for the victory in Athens....(and I cannot stand the Rossoneri!)

1 year ago Liverpool was allowed in the CL although they finished 5th in the PL; had they won it, would you have said they didn't deserve to be in?
2 years ago Liverpool reached the final with a non existent goal vs chelsea; do you still say they didn't deserve to be in the final because of it?

court decision and luck are things that happens, a bit like s*"t! history will say they won it, full stop.

To me is more like:

3 spanish teams in the semis; spanish final, spanish winner.
3 italian teams in the semis; italian final, italian winner.
3 english teams in the semis....they just blew it!

2) Milan (an Italian club) are the best team in Europe.

I like Italian football, but I think I do not agree that the winner of the CL is necessarily the best team.

Milan deserve massive credit for their dominance of the CL over the last 5 years, but you have to consider the season as a whole as opposed to just looking at one competition. When Milan (like Liverpool) basically gave up competing for the league at the end of the season such that they could afford to rest players before the semis (which neither Chelsea or ManU could) it gives them a huge advantage.

Furthermore, Milan had the benefit of a very easy group in first round and drawing Celtic (comfortably the weakest team left in the competition at that point) in the 2nd round. Even so, they actually needed extra time to beat Celtic.

I was happy Milan won the final, but I'm sorry - 2 years ago I didn't believe Liverpool were the best team in Europe and I don't believe Milan are now. For me, based on this season, Inter are the best team in Europe.

1 year ago Liverpool was allowed in the CL although they finished 5th in the PL; had they won it, would you have said they didn't deserve to be in?
2 years ago Liverpool reached the final with a non existent goal vs chelsea; do you still say they didn't deserve to be in the final because of it?

Yes, people would have said that and yes people do say that.

Australia > Italy

Cheers for Milan
A very good job done considering the fact as to how their season started

Must be a wonderful year for the likes of Nesta, Gattuso, Pirlo, first winning the world cup and then the CL.

marco uk wrote:

Effenberg wrote:

kas wrote:Milan deserved to win the CL, but history shouldn't forget this footnote - they were only allowed in the competition because of a court decision, that too, after appeal.

...and they were $h!t in the final and needed a deflection to get them on their way.

and your point is...?

Congratulations to AC Milan for the victory in Athens....(and I cannot stand the Rossoneri!)

1 year ago Liverpool was allowed in the CL although they finished 5th in the PL; had they won it, would you have said they didn't deserve to be in?
2 years ago Liverpool reached the final with a non existent goal vs chelsea; do you still say they didn't deserve to be in the final because of it?

court decision and luck are things that happens, a bit like s*"t! history will say they won it, full stop.

To me is more like:

3 spanish teams in the semis; spanish final, spanish winner.
3 italian teams in the semis; italian final, italian winner.
3 english teams in the semis....they just blew it!

EPL is still > Serie A, you just can't legislate for Milan, the kings of European competition.

I still think we are the best league in Europe for technical and quality of football,

For a 'title race' obviously Germany, Spain, Holland and Portugal define that this season, Serie A cannot compete this year in that, but for quality of goals, quality of football and the technique on display, i think we have been the best this season.

Next year, we will have Italy's biggest supported and domestically successful club, Juventus back in the top tier, plus Roma, Fiorentina, Palermo should strengthen, not forgetting Lazio, Inter and Milan.

By winning the World Cup and Champions League in a year when our football has been in legislative crises, where peope have scoffed and spat on Italy from abroad, we have shown tremendous mental strength and determination, for fucks sake we even won a penalty shoot out in a World Cup!!

It all depends what people want from their football to what championship you think is the best, i like technique, intellignece and tactical battles, others like tight championship races, others like atmosphere, others like more physicality and robustness, others like 'exciting' games that are easy on the eye to watch but contain less technical skill. Its all a matter of opinion really, and that variation is what makes world football great.

I can see another English team making the European Cup Final next year ... Chelsea ?

The Premiership gets a lot of stick for being 2 leagues in 1 , top 4 wont be changing any time soon and more or less do well in the European Cup .. after that you get the teams who gradually are improving but if these teams are destined for the UEFA Cup they need to stamp their authority .. even though it does not hold as much prestige/money as the Champions League .. but if the top 4 teams keep strengthening .. it would be tough

The Premiership may not have the supposed strength in depth as La Liga , but one thing it can bolster is that it captures Worldwide appeal , and at the end .. Football is the winner.

Pirlo wrote:By winning the World Cup and Champions League in a year when our football has been in legislative crises, where people have scoffed and spat on Italy from abroad, we have shown tremendous mental strength and determination, for fucks sake we even won a penalty shoot out in a World Cup!

Obviously you are very happy you won, but don't you think winning these titles may have masked some of the serious issues facing he Italian game that would have been sorted out better if you had not won. Do you think the corruption will be taken less seriously because everything looks good now?

Yep, Italian football is the greatest. Both Italy and Milan were simply superb and deserved victory, especially in the finals where they blew away the opposition.

Congratulations to Italian football- there's only one thing worse than a gloating Italian, its a moaning Italian, so Im happy its this way round!

The best league for technique and quality is la liga, its not even close.

La liga also has the best strength in depth.BY MILES.

La Liga>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Serie A. Its not even close IMO

Still, well done to Milan, the team that wins the CL is very rarely the best team in Europe though - just look at Liverpool in 2005 or Porto in 2004.

Tweedle wrote:The best league for technique and quality is la liga, its not even close.

La liga also has the best strength in depth.BY MILES.

La Liga>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Serie A. Its not even close IMO

Still, well done to Milan, the team that wins the CL is very rarely the best team in Europe though - just look at Liverpool in 2005 or Porto in 2004.

2003- Winners
2004- QF
2005- Final
2006- Semi-final
2007- Winners

Milan have been at the top (more than any other team) for the last 4 years.

But look at the UEFA cup - la liga teams have dominated it - largely down to the strength in depth.

La liga football is also far more technically gifted than Serie A football.

I'm not arguing that Serie A teams have had a greater success in the CL in recent years - the points I was picking on was the 'strength in depth' comments and the 'the most technical and best quality football' comments - both are wrong

Tweedle wrote:But look at the UEFA cup - la liga teams have dominated it - largely down to the strength in depth.

La liga football is also far more technically gifted than Serie A football.

I'm not arguing that Serie A teams have had a greater success in the CL in recent years - the points I was picking on was the 'strength in depth' comments and the 'the most technical and best quality football' comments - both are wrong

I was responding more to this:

Still, well done to Milan, the team that wins the CL is very rarely the best team in Europe though - just look at Liverpool in 2005 or Porto in 2004.

Sorry, should have made it more clear.

I'm not agreeing that Italian football is the best (I don't think it's possible to objectively compare the different leagues and why would you even want to), but I do think that

AC Milan has been the best European club in the past 20 years...

Axeslammer wrote:I'm not agreeing that Italian football is the best (I don't think it's possible to objectively compare the different leagues and why would you even want to), but I do think that

AC Milan has been the best European club in the past 20 years...

Fair enough, that'll do I guess.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

I was responding more to this:

Still, well done to Milan, the team that wins the CL is very rarely the best team in Europe though - just look at Liverpool in 2005 or Porto in 2004.

Sorry, should have made it more clear.

Domestically Inter have been far superior. Man Utd have also IMO been better - they just cocked up the away leg and were missing Rio and Neville and a fit Vidic.

Most consistent, no doubt. But best?

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:I'm not agreeing that Italian football is the best (I don't think it's possible to objectively compare the different leagues and why would you even want to), but I do think that

AC Milan has been the best European club in the past 20 years...

Fair enough, that'll do I guess.

And it should be law that you have at least one Dutchie playing for you (that same law should also apply to Barcelona)

We have the best Dutchie though

Gio left a few seasons ago tweeds

Target Man SSK wrote:Gio left a few seasons ago tweeds

the olny player to have won the SPL, EPL, FA cup, CL and Serie A. Still not a patch on RVP though

I think from next year onwards we will see English clubs starting to dominate Europe. It's difficult for other leagues to compete when around 12 of the Premiership are all owned by rich billionaires. Now even midtable teams can attract top players because of the wages and transfer fees they can offer. And of course there's a lot of extra money to use for training facilities, coaching, and other ways to improve the club's standard.

kas wrote:I think from next year onwards we will see English clubs starting to dominate Europe. It's difficult for other leagues to compete when around 12 of the Premiership are all owned by rich billionaires. Now even midtable teams can attract top players because of the wages and transfer fees they can offer. And of course there's a lot of extra money to use for training facilities, coaching, and other ways to improve the club's standard.

Aren't Barca and Madrid the two richest in the world?

Yes, but I was referring to the overall depth of the leagues when you compare them. England will now jump miles ahead of any league in the world with all these new owners.

Just think, Newcastle, Portsmouth, West Ham, Aston Villa, etc. are going to start outspending all but 3 Spanish clubs, 3 Italian clubs, 1 German club, etc. (obviously I'm generalising quite a bit). There's only one way for something like that to end...