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Kas is right. he hasn't even factored in the extra £30m a year clubs will get under the new TV deal 
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Jaime
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Deano
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Parks lives
Rez
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Tweesus- Number of posts : 34851
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shazlx- Number of posts : 5564
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I don't think it will make that much of a difference. English coaches are still Cr@p (other than Fat Sam). all that will happen is wage and transfer fee inflation i.e. players like Lukas Niel on 70k/w and others such as dyer, duff, distin, ... on similarly high fees. England needs to sort out the Football culture and the training culture to compete. Small clubs (and big) aren't producing enough of their on players so they will spend the money on average squad players (with inflated price tags), clubs like Parma/ Seville produce themselves. One thing for sure is only the v big Spanish and Italian clubs will be able to buy from the PL (unless the players are not wanted).Tweedle wrote:Kas is right. he hasn't even factored in the extra £30m a year clubs will get under the new TV deal
This is why even with individual tv deals, clubs like seville, fiorentina can still complete whilst the likes of spurs and everton cannot.
Tweesus- Number of posts : 34851
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The EPL has as good coaches as other leagues IMO.
The top 4 have the best coaches imaginable, compared to other leagues.
Jol is brilliant, as is O'neill.
Big Sam is also good. And Redknapp seems to have good European knowledge and get them playing good football.
Pearce wasn't so good but he's now gone.
The only weak coaches next season will IMO be Sanchez, Southgate, Bruce and the Wigan boss.
The top 4 have the best coaches imaginable, compared to other leagues.
Jol is brilliant, as is O'neill.
Big Sam is also good. And Redknapp seems to have good European knowledge and get them playing good football.
Pearce wasn't so good but he's now gone.
The only weak coaches next season will IMO be Sanchez, Southgate, Bruce and the Wigan boss.
Kimbo- Number of posts : 38171
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Tweedle wrote:The EPL has as good coaches as other leagues IMO.
The top 4 have the best coaches imaginable, compared to other leagues.
Jol is brilliant, as is O'neill.
Big Sam is also good. And Redknapp seems to have good European knowledge and get them playing good football.
Pearce wasn't so good but he's now gone.
The only weak coaches next season will IMO be Sanchez, Southgate, Bruce and the Wigan boss.
Brilliant?
Tweesus- Number of posts : 34851
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Well he's managed 5th two seasons running and the quarters of the CL.
Its pretty good
Its pretty good
Kimbo- Number of posts : 38171
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Tweedle wrote:Well he's managed 5th two seasons running and the quarters of the CL.
Its pretty good
If he was brilliant he would've caught Arsenal by now(the worst Arsenal team for a long time), it's more O'Neill i was questioning though, i don't think he's the genius that alot of people think he is.
Tweesus- Number of posts : 34851
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Maybe not brilliant, but if you compare him to the manager in a similar position in la liga or serie A, then I'd say he's better on paper.
I was merely rectifying Kas's point that the EPL had inferior managers
I was merely rectifying Kas's point that the EPL had inferior managers
shazlx- Number of posts : 5564
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Tweedle wrote:The EPL has as good coaches as other leagues IMO.
The top 4 have the best coaches imaginable, compared to other leagues.
Jol is brilliant, as is O'neill.
Big Sam is also good. And Redknapp seems to have good European knowledge and get them playing good football.
Pearce wasn't so good but he's now gone.
The only weak coaches next season will IMO be Sanchez, Southgate, Bruce and the Wigan boss.
I don't agree, If you look at how much is spent by the 'smaller' teams compared to the ier European counterparts and simply how bad they perform (not just results) then you will see haw bad the coaches are.
If Jol was so good, how come Spurs could not out do us when we were in our weakest season ans they had every thing going for them (it shouldn't have gone to the last day, we were there for the taking). He still has to prove he can build a solid back line which there is little evidence of.
Also, look at Everton v ManU - IMO this game epitomises the lack of good coaches in England. The everton players could not pass the ball out of defense and were constantly hoofing away every advance into their box (and they were at home). In spain and italy, had a team gone 2 up, they would have just passed the ball around, making it difficult for ManU. ManU's lack of DM would have shown and Everton probably would have won the match. This shows Moyes lack of ability to either teach his players to pass or buy payers who can pass. Compare this to Arseanl v Barca in the CL last year and you can see the difference even when we had 10 men (and we didn't even play that well).
You can say that Everton don't have the players - but then Fergie has managed to get even O'shea to play the ball out when he can.
PL teams have yet to understand the point of having possession for the sake of possession : it saves energy, don't need to risk injury by diving in to win the ball back, makes the other team tired, makes the other team loos the positions when they go chasing...
Until the average English, and by extension PL, players learn to slow down the game and still be a threat in attack, then IMO the PL will not dominate Europe. This comes down to coaching from a young age and even as a professional adult (look hoe much G.Neville has improved his footballing abilities).
Tweesus- Number of posts : 34851
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I think its more down to the personnel than the manager though. If you're playing people like Phil Neville and Stubbs then you simply aren't going to get carpet football - they're job is to tackle, block and head - Moyes could easily go for a more culutred defender but would he get the same defensive result?
There are some teams in the EPL that do try and play it out of defence but they don't neccessarily do any better than the teams that hoof it.
Likewise in serie A and la liga, not all teams play in that calmly out of defence - Milan tried it yesterday and if Liverpool had been slightly more lucky of with a pacier or better quality player in that position it could have cost Milan
There are some teams in the EPL that do try and play it out of defence but they don't neccessarily do any better than the teams that hoof it.
Likewise in serie A and la liga, not all teams play in that calmly out of defence - Milan tried it yesterday and if Liverpool had been slightly more lucky of with a pacier or better quality player in that position it could have cost Milan
Rez- Number of posts : 3757
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Milan arent even the best side in Milan or Italy, never mind Europe. When was the last time Milan won the domestic league. The CL should be renamed, especially when the final consists of two 3rd place teams that havent won there domestic league for a while.
When Porto or Liverpool won the CL, no one thought they were the best side in Europe and its the same with Milan now.Maybe when Milan win there own league people may take there claim as the best side in Europe seriously.
Milan and Italy got outplayed in the finals. Italy won on penalties and Milan won via a deflected goal. Italy just proved that they are the luckiest nation at the moment.
When Porto or Liverpool won the CL, no one thought they were the best side in Europe and its the same with Milan now.Maybe when Milan win there own league people may take there claim as the best side in Europe seriously.
Milan and Italy got outplayed in the finals. Italy won on penalties and Milan won via a deflected goal. Italy just proved that they are the luckiest nation at the moment.
Liverpool 0 - 1 Man U- Number of posts : 3621
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I think you're spot on shalz on both points. English coaches are Cr@p at teaching/playing technical football. The extra money will mostly be wasted. 
shazlx- Number of posts : 5564
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Tweedle wrote:I think its more down to the personnel than the manager though. If you're playing people like Phil Neville and Stubbs then you simply aren't going to get carpet football - they're job is to tackle, block and head - Moyes could easily go for a more culutred defender but would he get the same defensive result?
There are some teams in the EPL that do try and play it out of defence but they don't neccessarily do any better than the teams that hoof it.
Likewise in serie A and la liga, not all teams play in that calmly out of defence - Milan tried it yesterday and if Liverpool had been slightly more lucky of with a pacier or better quality player in that position it could have cost Milan
Benfica, managed a more cultured defense and they are a better defense. Fact is you will never win the PL with defenders that can't pass the ball out of defense any more, so stop buying them. Might me defensively less solid but they will keep possession better and therefore the opposition will have less opportunities anyway. IMO it worth risking 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8.... seasons of not being top 7 just so that you can breed a culture of passing the ball out - you will struggle at first because the players are not used to it but in the future it will be worth it. otherwise these clubs are just gonna be mid table forever and hoping that one of the top four will have a $h!t year- and then get knocked out of the CL early because they cannot pass the ball smoothly.
Players like P.Neville should no longer be valued by any PL club never mind one with CL pretensions.
I don't expect them to try to outpass the 'top 4' straight away, but they have to out pass the weaker teams.
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
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Everyone will just buy more Sissoko's. 
shazlx- Number of posts : 5564
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Muntari = Portsmouth.Parks lives wrote:Everyone will just buy more Sissoko's.
It's understandable because everyone is looking for the 'next Vieira'- but people forget just how technical and skillful Vieira was. If you think how people are getting exited about the 'class' of Lampard or Gerrard thean you realise just how much people have already forgotten just how good Vieira was.
110%- Number of posts : 8978
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Parks lives wrote:Everyone will just buy more Sissoko's.
you've started it off with hargreaves
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
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Hello 110%.
Deano- Number of posts : 22042
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As much as I'm pleased and I love Serie A...it's not better than La Liga or EPL at present...
Next year though it has the potential to be...
Next year though it has the potential to be...
debaser- Number of posts : 22064
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the smugness exuded from this post was so dense it actually seeped through my computer screen and started to make me chokeForza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Last summer, during the depravity of Moggipoli, pundits all over Europe were once again primed to sound the death knell for Italian football. It was everything that the skeptics (plenty of them around) dreamed of: Italian football, a cynical brand of the beautiful game, was even rotten at its administrative core.
Juventus, Milan, Lazio, and Fiorentina faced the threat of Serie B as Italy prepared for the World Cup.
Then, Italy's triumph against France in the World Cup Final proved to the world that Italian players are amongst the best in the world, and with a World Cup win under their belt, OFFICIALLY THE best in the world.
Still, the usual imbeciles and pundits rummaged around for the usual excuses and apologetics. My favourite was that man for man England were just as good, if not better.
Anyway, Italy won, Juve were relegated, Milan, Fiorentina, and Lazio stayed in Serie A, but with a points penalty.
It was precisely at this point that moralists came out of the woodwork with their strident diatribes against Italian football. Italian football had solved nothing, they said, in variously irksome ways.
Many of them, however, took solace in the fact that Serie A would never be able to match the Prem or La Liga when it came to the business on the pitch. Even on this board, COTR said, "That's it, Italy will never be able to compete with the Prem and La Liga now."
So with Serie A out of the way, this was supposed to be the year when Italian teams would meekly surrender and buckle under the pressure.
How wrong they were. After Milan completely humiliated Manchester United 3-0 (a total demolition), they met Liverpool, a team that were extremely fortunate to have beaten them in Istanbul. This time they set the record straight with a canny 2-1 win. Liverpool were had at their own game, and it was incredibly satisfying to watch.
So just to recap:
1) Italy are the best footballing nation in the world currently.
2) Milan (an Italian club) are the best team in Europe.
All the silverware that matters is where it belongs.
Forza Italia! Forza Milan!
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
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Red n' Black- Number of posts : 1499
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Rez wrote:
Milan and Italy got outplayed in the finals. Italy won on penalties and Milan won via a deflected goal. Italy just proved that they are the luckiest nation at the moment.
Rez, i think you're a fair dude but i must say I quite disagree with the above comment of yours and I'm not even Italian. Italy won on penalties yes, but they also lost a final on penalties in 1994. Yes France played better, but in the EURO 2000 final Italy played France off the park and yet ended up losing.I also believe that Italy had a better overall tournament than France. And i do think that Italy are definately one of the top 3-4 national teams in the world, they have tons of great players and also tons of trophies to show for it.
As far as Milan is concerned, we played Cr@p yesterday (definately one of our worst games in years and i watch EVERY domestic and European game) so you could claim that we were fortunate. But were we any more fortunate than Liverpool in '05? I don't think so. Plus Liverpool won on penalties, whereas Milan won the game in normal time.
I agree with your post about Milan's bad domestic season though; we didn't do well enough in the league to justify the 'Best in Europe' tag. However, i do disagree with what you said in another thread about the way we played in the final being our 'normal game' and 45 mins against Man U being the 'anomaly'
To me that is funny because i cannot understand how you reached that conclusion, but i guess if you had followed Serie A or even our European games for the past few years you would have known that our brand of football is anything BUT the one that was on display yesterday. 
Anyway, i do think that Milan can claim that they have been the #1 team in Europe over the past 2 decades and i don't think i'm biased in saying that.
Forza Italia!Forza Milan!- Number of posts : 4759
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Rez wrote:Milan arent even the best side in Milan or Italy, never mind Europe. When was the last time Milan won the domestic league. The CL should be renamed, especially when the final consists of two 3rd place teams that havent won there domestic league for a while.
When Porto or Liverpool won the CL, no one thought they were the best side in Europe and its the same with Milan now.Maybe when Milan win there own league people may take there claim as the best side in Europe seriously.
Milan and Italy got outplayed in the finals. Italy won on penalties and Milan won via a deflected goal. Italy just proved that they are the luckiest nation at the moment.
*yawn*
We really have what it takes for the CL, which is the top club competition.
2003- Winners
2004- QF
2005- Final
2006- Semi-final
2007- Winners
Milan have been at the top (more than any other team) for the last 4 years.
Tweesus- Number of posts : 34851
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Its all down to Seedorf 
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
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It all goes in cycles:
Real Madrid, 1998-2004
1998: Winners
1999: QF
2000: Winners
2001: Semi finals
2002: Winners
2003: Semi finals
2004: QF
Real Madrid, 1998-2004
1998: Winners
1999: QF
2000: Winners
2001: Semi finals
2002: Winners
2003: Semi finals
2004: QF
TM- Number of posts : 21218
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Real:
1998: Winners
1999: QF
2000: Winners
2001: Semi finals
2002: Winners
2003: Semi finals
2004: QF
Milan:
2003- Winners
2004- QF
2005- Final
2006- Semi-final
2007- Winners
Two of the most dominant teams in europe
1998: Winners
1999: QF
2000: Winners
2001: Semi finals
2002: Winners
2003: Semi finals
2004: QF
Milan:
2003- Winners
2004- QF
2005- Final
2006- Semi-final
2007- Winners
Two of the most dominant teams in europe
Forza Italia!Forza Milan!- Number of posts : 4759
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Target Man SSK wrote:Real:
1998: Winners
1999: QF
2000: Winners
2001: Semi finals
2002: Winners
2003: Semi finals
2004: QF
Milan:
2003- Winners
2004- QF
2005- Final
2006- Semi-final
2007- Winners
Two of the most dominant teams in europe
Agreed.
Dejan Savićević- Number of posts : 2921
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I would say very successful lately, especially 2006 World Cup+AC Milan 2007 European Cup winners.
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debaser wrote:the smugness exuded from this post was so dense it actually seeped through my computer screen and started to make me chokeForza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Last summer, during the depravity of Moggipoli, pundits all over Europe were once again primed to sound the death knell for Italian football. It was everything that the skeptics (plenty of them around) dreamed of: Italian football, a cynical brand of the beautiful game, was even rotten at its administrative core.
Juventus, Milan, Lazio, and Fiorentina faced the threat of Serie B as Italy prepared for the World Cup.
Then, Italy's triumph against France in the World Cup Final proved to the world that Italian players are amongst the best in the world, and with a World Cup win under their belt, OFFICIALLY THE best in the world.
Still, the usual imbeciles and pundits rummaged around for the usual excuses and apologetics. My favourite was that man for man England were just as good, if not better.
Anyway, Italy won, Juve were relegated, Milan, Fiorentina, and Lazio stayed in Serie A, but with a points penalty.
It was precisely at this point that moralists came out of the woodwork with their strident diatribes against Italian football. Italian football had solved nothing, they said, in variously irksome ways.
Many of them, however, took solace in the fact that Serie A would never be able to match the Prem or La Liga when it came to the business on the pitch. Even on this board, COTR said, "That's it, Italy will never be able to compete with the Prem and La Liga now."
So with Serie A out of the way, this was supposed to be the year when Italian teams would meekly surrender and buckle under the pressure.
How wrong they were. After Milan completely humiliated Manchester United 3-0 (a total demolition), they met Liverpool, a team that were extremely fortunate to have beaten them in Istanbul. This time they set the record straight with a canny 2-1 win. Liverpool were had at their own game, and it was incredibly satisfying to watch.
So just to recap:
1) Italy are the best footballing nation in the world currently.
2) Milan (an Italian club) are the best team in Europe.
All the silverware that matters is where it belongs.
Forza Italia! Forza Milan!
Easily the best post of the year so far. I applaud you sir!On a serious note- fine margins, had Liverpool put away their chances just as France did none of this would mean anything. Their is always a slice of luck involved in seperating sides of a similar ilk, this year it fell upon Italy; doesnt mean they are anywhere near the dominant force being made out in this post. The difference between Milan and Liverpool on the day was so fine its impossible to say one is better than the other. Ditto Vs France.
But let that not take away from congratulating them. Fair play Italy and Milan- after all the scandal and hooliganism problems, something to finally cheer about
gone- Number of posts : 3455
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Rez wrote:Milan arent even the best side in Milan or Italy, never mind Europe. When was the last time Milan won the domestic league. The CL should be renamed, especially when the final consists of two 3rd place teams that havent won there domestic league for a while.
When Porto or Liverpool won the CL, no one thought they were the best side in Europe and its the same with Milan now.Maybe when Milan win there own league people may take there claim as the best side in Europe seriously.
Milan and Italy got outplayed in the finals. Italy won on penalties and Milan won via a deflected goal. Italy just proved that they are the luckiest nation at the moment.
I think its just a case of sour grapes for you rez. Not the first time either. Milan won Serie A in 2004. As you see it was not so long ago. Why should the CL be renamed? Just allow only the champions + title holder to play. That was the whole idea behind the competition, when it first got started. Would you go for that? By this standards United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Roma, Milan, Real, Valencia shouldn’t started in this year’s competition.
BTW, the team that wins the CL SHOULD be the best team in Europe. For it was Porto in 2004, Liverpool in 2005 or Barca last year. But I agree that you SHOULD win you league first, then get to play in this competition.
Tweesus- Number of posts : 34851
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Well its a difference of opinion.
Last year Barcelona were clearly the best team in Europe but at the end of the day the CL is a cup competition and one bad day can really play against you.
Milan are the champions of Europe, but they aren't the 'best' team.
There's a lot of ifs and buts in cup competitions anyhow - what if Man Utd had had a fit Rio and Vidic? What if Kaka hadn't scored in extra time v Celtic and it had gone to penalties?
I personally think the best teams in Europe this season have been Inter and Man Utd.
If all the top teams in Europe had been put into one huge league then IMO these two would have come out on top based on their form
Last year Barcelona were clearly the best team in Europe but at the end of the day the CL is a cup competition and one bad day can really play against you.
Milan are the champions of Europe, but they aren't the 'best' team.
There's a lot of ifs and buts in cup competitions anyhow - what if Man Utd had had a fit Rio and Vidic? What if Kaka hadn't scored in extra time v Celtic and it had gone to penalties?
I personally think the best teams in Europe this season have been Inter and Man Utd.
If all the top teams in Europe had been put into one huge league then IMO these two would have come out on top based on their form
gone- Number of posts : 3455
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Tweedle wrote:Well its a difference of opinion.
Last year Barcelona were clearly the best team in Europe but at the end of the day the CL is a cup competition and one bad day can really play against you.
Milan are the champions of Europe, but they aren't the 'best' team.
There's a lot of ifs and buts in cup competitions anyhow - what if Man Utd had had a fit Rio and Vidic? What if Kaka hadn't scored in extra time v Celtic and it had gone to penalties?
I personally think the best teams in Europe this season have been Inter and Man Utd.
If all the top teams in Europe had been put into one huge league then IMO these two would have come out on top based on their form
First, rez was talking about Porto not being the best team in Europe in 2004. Why? They won the league AND the CL. What more could they do?
Ok, United didn't had their best defense. Still, it was 3-0, not a close game. And their midfield and attack didn't had a good game as well. What is Inter's excuse? Valencia played good defense?
Do you know how the European Cup got started? The England's Champions whent on a tour to play some of the Europe’s best teams. I think it was Wolverhampton at that time, I'm not sure. After beating all the teams they claimed themselves (or the media did it) as the best team in Europe. L'Equiep pointed out that there are still some great teams that they didn't play. Some in the East. The Wolves did go there because of the whole division of Europe in that time. So the EC was created to allow the best teams from all the countries to compete in one competition and determine who is the best team in Europe.
So yes, you should win the league to play in the CL. How can you be the best team in Europe when you where second (or 4th) in your on league? But, since no one is having a problem with 4th team from England, Spain or Italy playing in the CL then why have a problem when those teams win the CL?
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