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    Englands 2018 WC Bid Dead

    Aristoskank
    Aristoskank


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    Post by Aristoskank Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:00 pm

    de-turkey-baster wrote:I was specifically taking issue with FIFA for voting for Qatar's bid one week and then saying they might have to make fundamental changes to it as soon as it's accepted. Yes it's only words at the minute, but this seems to have backing from a lot of the bigwigs (Beckenbauer, Platini, Valcke all talked about it first), rather than just random Blatter bleating.

    One fundamental change. And one that we have made a big issue out of, with our complaining that it'll be too hot. Typical Brits, complain about something but refuse to accept a solution because then our excuse for complaining goes away.

    You called this 'exceedingly dishonest', but if it doesn't happen then there is no dishonesty. You are, just like the tabloids (and the BBC and most of the broadsheets) assuming that chatter from FIFA bigwigs means that it is inevitable.

    The actual change of football calender is a side issue that I barely touched on (if you read closely you see the phrase "isn't so much of a big deal"); you're assuming opinions of me there. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy to change the football calander, I'm attacking this on the basis that it's another example of the undemocratic nature of the bidding process and how little the detail of the bids has to do with what is voted for. The conspiracy I'm suggesting is they (Blatter, FIFA) wanted Qatar and found whatever way to get the bid through, brushing aside problems that everyone pointed out with temperature, etc - and only when they got it through do they start to address them. It all seems the wrong way round.

    What else did you expect?

    Besides which, compared to the 'conspiracy' of always holding the World Cup at a time to suit the entrenched footballing powers in Europe, this is pretty small fry. Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I've never heard you criticise FIFA's corruption and dishonesty when things were going our way. Perhaps you did, but our press certainly didn't give a fuck. Now we haven't got the World Cup, we're a bunch of whining bitches. Maybe that isn't applicable to you, but it sure as hell is to most of the people who've kicked up a fuss about this.
    Allez les rouges
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    Post by Allez les rouges Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:41 pm

    But but but the 2018 World Cup was always going to go to a European country and the 2022 to an Asian one, Aussie or the US & A, no? I don't quite see where jingoism comes into this?
    debaser
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    Post by debaser Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:02 pm

    Saints Nick wrote:
    de-turkey-baster wrote:I was specifically taking issue with FIFA for voting for Qatar's bid one week and then saying they might have to make fundamental changes to it as soon as it's accepted. Yes it's only words at the minute, but this seems to have backing from a lot of the bigwigs (Beckenbauer, Platini, Valcke all talked about it first), rather than just random Blatter bleating.

    One fundamental change. And one that we have made a big issue out of, with our complaining that it'll be too hot. Typical Brits, complain about something but refuse to accept a solution because then our excuse for complaining goes away.

    You called this 'exceedingly dishonest', but if it doesn't happen then there is no dishonesty. You are, just like the tabloids (and the BBC and most of the broadsheets) assuming that chatter from FIFA bigwigs means that it is inevitable.

    On this we'll just have to differ and see who's right in time. I think it's reasonable to assume that if most of the power-wielders in football are behind an idea, it becomes likely to happen - there's no need for you to try and diminish that viewpoint by particular association with tabloids. If I hear David Cameron, Nick Clegg and George Osbourne all say the same thing on a new policy, I'm not blindly following tabloids if I think that policy may well come into fruition.

    Saints Nick wrote:
    The actual change of football calender is a side issue that I barely touched on (if you read closely you see the phrase "isn't so much of a big deal"); you're assuming opinions of me there. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy to change the football calander, I'm attacking this on the basis that it's another example of the undemocratic nature of the bidding process and how little the detail of the bids has to do with what is voted for. The conspiracy I'm suggesting is they (Blatter, FIFA) wanted Qatar and found whatever way to get the bid through, brushing aside problems that everyone pointed out with temperature, etc - and only when they got it through do they start to address them. It all seems the wrong way round.

    What else did you expect?

    Besides which, compared to the 'conspiracy' of always holding the World Cup at a time to suit the entrenched footballing powers in Europe, this is pretty small fry. Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I've never heard you criticise FIFA's corruption and dishonesty when things were going our way. Perhaps you did, but our press certainly didn't give a fuck. Now we haven't got the World Cup, we're a bunch of whining bitches. Maybe that isn't applicable to you, but it sure as hell is to most of the people who've kicked up a fuss about this.

    I totally accept I'm paying far more attention to Fifa because of the world cup bid and because of England's involvement in that initially. And in that I am similar to press indeed. Does my lack of recorded opinions on Fifa in the past mean I am disallowed from opinions now? I am learning.

    What else did I expect? Not much, I guess. Yes, it's politics and that's the way it happens. Naive to expect anything else, but I don't want to get too cynical or we all become fucking politicians.
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    Dwarf


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    Post by Dwarf Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:45 am

    Did they bother thinking anything through?


    Fifa president Sepp Blatter expects the 2022 World Cup in Qatar to be held in January because of the country's intensely hot summers.

    The tournament is traditionally held in June and July but temperatures in Qatar at that time of year can top 40C.

    Speaking in the Qatari capital Doha, Blatter said: "I expect it [the 2022 World Cup] will be held in winter.

    "It is 11 years away but we must decide the most adequate period, which means January or the end of the year."

    Blatter, who is in Doha for the start of the Asian Cup, added: "Although we have the basic conditions of their bid for a June and July World Cup, the Fifa executive committee is entitled to change anything that was in the bid.

    "When you play football you have to protect the main people - the players."

    Fifa general secretary Jerome Valcke also supports the prospect of the 2022 World Cup being rescheduled.

    Speaking in December, he said: "Why not? It means you open the World Cup to countries where they can never play it in June and July because it's never the right period of time.

    "If you can do so, it would be a solution to open the organisation of the World Cup to a number of countries in this period which is winter in Europe but not winter in the rest of the world."

    He added: "You can't just make a decision to move the tournament and that is it.

    "It means you have to change completely when the leagues will play, mainly I would say in Europe. It's less difficult in the rest of the world."

    Qatar beat Australia, Japan, South Korea and the United States to host the tournament in the vote by Fifa's executive committee on 2 December in Zurich.

    Initially, former German World Cup-winning captain and coach Franz Beckenbauer had aired his worries about the health risk of the heat to players if the World Cup was staged during the Gulf nation's summer.

    Uefa president Michel Platini also recently suggested the idea of moving the 2022 World Cup to December or January.

    Meanwhile, Blatter also revealed in December that several nations in the Middle East were interested in hosting games during the 2022 World Cup and that he had met with officials in Oman, Bahrain and Kuwait during a tour of the region.

    However, he did not elaborate on which of Qatar's neighbours wanted to host the games, or how many could be hosted, but he pointed out that such a decision would have to come first from Qatar and then from Fifa's 24-man executive committee.

    "This demand has to come from the Qatar football organisation by saying we would like to have such and such things and this has to go back to Fifa and the Fifa executive committee has to say open it or don't open it," he said.

    "I can say all these countries are very happy. First of all, the World Cup is going to the Middle East and they are interested - I would say a little bit more than interested - to be part of this competition.

    "It is a wish. It is easy to say but it is not so easy to realise. For the time being, it's too early."

    Just about the perfect catalyst for a Euro super league.
    Ä
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    Post by Ä Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:21 am

    opening up the World Cup to the likes of Kuwait but particularly UAE would be brilliant and makes SENSE

    Ale

    the heat WILL be a HUGE problem , if it takes place in the summer

    here's a good interview with Helmer about the heat at the 1994 World Cup (in German)

    http://11freunde.de/international/135303/thomas_helmer_ueber_wm-hitze

    good stuff by Möller and Vogts

    and a new perspective on Effe's middle finger

    Smile
    Aristoskank
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    Post by Aristoskank Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:51 am

    debaser wrote:On this we'll just have to differ and see who's right in time. I think it's reasonable to assume that if most of the power-wielders in football are behind an idea, it becomes likely to happen - there's no need for you to try and diminish that viewpoint by particular association with tabloids. If I hear David Cameron, Nick Clegg and George Osbourne all say the same thing on a new policy, I'm not blindly following tabloids if I think that policy may well come into fruition.

    If I heard them all say the same thing I would assume they were floating a policy to see how people reacted, and that if it proved particularly unpopular they would reverse-float it back up the pipe and pretend they were never seriously considering it in the first place. You're right, we'll see what happens.

    I totally accept I'm paying far more attention to Fifa because of the world cup bid and because of England's involvement in that initially. And in that I am similar to press indeed. Does my lack of recorded opinions on Fifa in the past mean I am disallowed from opinions now? I am learning.

    No, of course you're allowed an opinion, but I'd be able to take such opinions more seriously if they weren't a response to us not getting what we wanted. My criticism was less directed at you (apologies for any personal slight), more so at the press who didn't give a fuck about bias and corruption until it came back and bit us in the ass.

    What else did I expect? Not much, I guess. Yes, it's politics and that's the way it happens. Naive to expect anything else, but I don't want to get too cynical or we all become fucking politicians.

    If anything I'm an idealist, not a cynic. What I'm saying is that rather than getting pissed off about one stupid decision we should be constantly pressing for a serious overhaul of FIFA. But that's not the British way, we'd rather whinge about prisons being too soft than look at why criminals commit crimes in the first place.
    Super Progress
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    Post by Super Progress Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:59 pm

    FIFA lol!

    I don't mind having a world cup in winter to be honest. Would be interesting to have it in a winter and perhaps UEFA would push CL further into the summer which again isn't bad either.

    Im just baffled by FIFA's incompetence. Qatar presented their bid which(supposedly) accounted for the heat so what gives? What has changed?

    Don't know this case really but incredible that FIFA didn't figure this out earlier.

    Like it that other neighbouring countries might host some games as well.
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    Post by Brian2468 Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:07 pm

    They are bandits and are sneaky oh!! its ten years away we have time to change everything. They are cowardly bastards I guess thats politics if you want to change world soccer some how you have to weaken the strangle hold the europeans have on the game specially England. I do not give a crap if it changes what I do not like is the way Blatter goes about his slimy work.

    He new if all this was on the Table from the very beginning the outcome for placing the WC finals could, or would of been very different and what a way also to make sure England never sees a WC played on home soil again. Asshole
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    Post by Ä Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:24 pm

    Brian2468 wrote: and what a way also to make sure England never sees a WC played on home soil again. Asshole

    scratch

    who says so ?

    Blatter and many of the other senior FIFA voters are ANCIENT and will die SOON

    and new GENERATION will step forward

    as long as the English FA learn their LESSONS

    of which there are MANY

    there is no reason why England CANNOT ever host another World Cup

    mind you, your MEDIA is a BUMMER

    still

    England managed to clinch the Olympics, and their VOTERS are just as CORRUPT and DISGUSTING

    so who knows

    the truth is it's almost impossible to make a case for England getting 2018 instead of Russia

    spin it like you want, it won't work

    Russia got it because it was their turn

    END of story

    England getting it would have been a SCANDAL

    stop this holier than thou bullshit though

    the English bend the rules like the others do

    the Russians may have used money

    the English often used their international MEDIA power, which this time backfired though

    anybody remember how Liverpool won the CL and were allowed to defend their title the next season despite having clinched 5th place in the EPL ?!

    the EPL ended up with 5 CL starters AFTER a major English MEDIA lobbying campaign

    a SCANDAL if ever there was one

    you win some you lose some

    so stop being bitter and bad losers

    Ale
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    Post by Brian2468 Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:39 pm

    Better chance of Germany getting a third WC than England thats okay Better to be holier than thou than being a suck.

    This old guard crap of Blatter most likely passing away is BS the damage is done the chance to really host a WC should and will change forever. Gone is the time why one country can hold the WC unless that country is large enough like USSR, USA, Brasil, Aussies, traveling only then makes sense to make them hosts.

    England will have to share the WC if that time ever comes around commuting distance makes it easier for sharing in europe for smaller countries then more countries get the right to host the WC.

    Germany should never been allowed to host the 2006 WC they are the problem corrupt fuckos that really know how to jump the waiting line.

    As for Liverpool. Has there ever been a team that won the CL or the old European cup that were not allowed to defend it the next year no.

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    Sheffield gunner


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    Post by Sheffield gunner Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:07 pm

    Otto, what do you make of this?

    Der ehemalige Bundesgerichtshofs-Präsident Günter Hirsch zieht sich mit sofortiger Wirkung aus der Ethikkommission der FIFA zurück. Dadurch hat er die Glaubwürdigkeit und des Fußball-Weltverbandes sowie dessen Präsidenten Joseph Blatter weiter geschwächt.

    Hirsch teilte seine Entscheidung dem Kommissions-Vorsitzenden Claudio Sulser kurz vor dem Jahreswechsel in einem Brief mit. In dem Schreiben, das der Nachrichtenagentur dpa vorliegt, erhob Hirsch Vorwürfe gegen die FIFA im Zusammenhang mit der Vergabe der Weltmeisterschaften 2018 und 2022 Anfang Dezember.

    Von der FIFA war am Sonntag (09.01.11) zunächst keine Stellungnahme zu bekommen. Auf der offiziellen Homepage des Weltverbandes wird Hirsch noch immer als Mitglied der Kommission geführt.

    Der 67-Jährige schrieb, "dass die Ereignisse der letzten Wochen bei mir den Eindruck erweckt und gefestigt haben, dass die Verantwortlichen der FIFA kein wirkliches Interesse daran haben, eine aktive Rolle bei der Aufklärung, Verfolgung und Vorbeugung von Verstößen gegen das Ethikreglement der FIFA zu spielen". Hirsch monierte nicht nur die Grundkonstruktion der Ethikkommission und sieht diese als verfehlt an. Der Jurist kritisierte auch die jüngsten Entscheidungen gegen FIFA-Spitzenfunktionäre im Zusammenhang mit möglichen Schmiergeldern bei der Doppel-Vergabe der WM für 2018 (Russland) und 2022 (Katar). Sie würden der Schwere der Verstöße nicht gerecht, befand Hirsch.

    http://www.sportschau.de/sp/fussball/news201101/09/fifa_ethikkommission.jsp
    Ä
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    Post by Ä Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:30 pm

    Sheffield gunner wrote:Otto, what do you make of this?

    Der ehemalige Bundesgerichtshofs-Präsident Günter Hirsch zieht sich mit sofortiger Wirkung aus der Ethikkommission der FIFA zurück. Dadurch hat er die Glaubwürdigkeit und des Fußball-Weltverbandes sowie dessen Präsidenten Joseph Blatter weiter geschwächt.

    Hirsch teilte seine Entscheidung dem Kommissions-Vorsitzenden Claudio Sulser kurz vor dem Jahreswechsel in einem Brief mit. In dem Schreiben, das der Nachrichtenagentur dpa vorliegt, erhob Hirsch Vorwürfe gegen die FIFA im Zusammenhang mit der Vergabe der Weltmeisterschaften 2018 und 2022 Anfang Dezember.

    Von der FIFA war am Sonntag (09.01.11) zunächst keine Stellungnahme zu bekommen. Auf der offiziellen Homepage des Weltverbandes wird Hirsch noch immer als Mitglied der Kommission geführt.

    Der 67-Jährige schrieb, "dass die Ereignisse der letzten Wochen bei mir den Eindruck erweckt und gefestigt haben, dass die Verantwortlichen der FIFA kein wirkliches Interesse daran haben, eine aktive Rolle bei der Aufklärung, Verfolgung und Vorbeugung von Verstößen gegen das Ethikreglement der FIFA zu spielen". Hirsch monierte nicht nur die Grundkonstruktion der Ethikkommission und sieht diese als verfehlt an. Der Jurist kritisierte auch die jüngsten Entscheidungen gegen FIFA-Spitzenfunktionäre im Zusammenhang mit möglichen Schmiergeldern bei der Doppel-Vergabe der WM für 2018 (Russland) und 2022 (Katar). Sie würden der Schwere der Verstöße nicht gerecht, befand Hirsch.

    http://www.sportschau.de/sp/fussball/news201101/09/fifa_ethikkommission.jsp

    well

    they are ALL in it

    TOGETHER

    NOBODY wants a proper investigation

    innit ?!

    interesting little side-note

    the Swiss ex-Fifa official said that Blatter would ORIGINALLY

    NOT

    have favoured Katar getting the 2022 World Cup

    Blatter is FERVENTLY pro-China

    and

    Katar clinching it for ASIA in 2022

    means China are out of the loop for YEARS to come

    so REALLY

    a HUGE SET-BACK for Blatter

    BUT

    rumours have it the president of the Asian Football Federation, who also happens to be the present of the Katar FA

    ie, the second most powerful man in world football according to Beckenbauer

    was planning to RUN against Blatter for the next FIFA presidency TERM

    Katar getting the nod NOW, was probably merely a horse-trade behind the scenes, assuring Blatter a safe reelection

    interesting comment by Beckenbauer TODAY in spox

    "
    SPOX: Die Vergabe der Weltmeisterschaft 2018 und 2022 hat für mächtig Aufsehen gesorgt. Uli Hoeneß hat zuletzt FIFA-Boss Sepp Blatter wegen der Vergabe der WM 2022 nach Katar heftig attackiert, der FIFA Bestechlichkeit vorgeworfen.

    Beckenbauer: Es wurden ja auch zwei Exko-Mitglieder ausgeschlossen. In den Wochen vor der Vergabe waren die Spannungen unter den Mitgliedern auf jeden Fall greifbar. Da lag etwas in der Luft. Man konnte mit keinem mehr normal reden."

    funny that the English FA hunchos were genuinely surprised some of the votes they had been promised ended up somewhere else

    AMATEURS

    Very Happy
    Aristoskank
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    Post by Aristoskank Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:10 pm

    ConDemolition wrote:
    debaser wrote:On this we'll just have to differ and see who's right in time. I think it's reasonable to assume that if most of the power-wielders in football are behind an idea, it becomes likely to happen - there's no need for you to try and diminish that viewpoint by particular association with tabloids. If I hear David Cameron, Nick Clegg and George Osbourne all say the same thing on a new policy, I'm not blindly following tabloids if I think that policy may well come into fruition.

    If I heard them all say the same thing I would assume they were floating a policy to see how people reacted, and that if it proved particularly unpopular they would reverse-float it back up the pipe and pretend they were never seriously considering it in the first place. You're right, we'll see what happens.


    http://www.sify.com/sports/blatter-says-2022-world-cup-in-qatar-is-settled-for-summer-news-news-lciruiabjec.html

    Told you so...

    Cool

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