Englands 2018 WC Bid Dead

de-turkey-baster wrote:I was specifically taking issue with FIFA for voting for Qatar's bid one week and then saying they might have to make fundamental changes to it as soon as it's accepted. Yes it's only words at the minute, but this seems to have backing from a lot of the bigwigs (Beckenbauer, Platini, Valcke all talked about it first), rather than just random Blatter bleating.

The actual change of football calender is a side issue that I barely touched on (if you read closely you see the phrase "isn't so much of a big deal"); you're assuming opinions of me there. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy to change the football calander, I'm attacking this on the basis that it's another example of the undemocratic nature of the bidding process and how little the detail of the bids has to do with what is voted for. The conspiracy I'm suggesting is they (Blatter, FIFA) wanted Qatar and found whatever way to get the bid through, brushing aside problems that everyone pointed out with temperature, etc - and only when they got it through do they start to address them. It all seems the wrong way round.

Saints Nick wrote:

de-turkey-baster wrote:I was specifically taking issue with FIFA for voting for Qatar's bid one week and then saying they might have to make fundamental changes to it as soon as it's accepted. Yes it's only words at the minute, but this seems to have backing from a lot of the bigwigs (Beckenbauer, Platini, Valcke all talked about it first), rather than just random Blatter bleating.

One fundamental change. And one that we have made a big issue out of, with our complaining that it'll be too hot. Typical Brits, complain about something but refuse to accept a solution because then our excuse for complaining goes away.

You called this 'exceedingly dishonest', but if it doesn't happen then there is no dishonesty. You are, just like the tabloids (and the BBC and most of the broadsheets) assuming that chatter from FIFA bigwigs means that it is inevitable.

Saints Nick wrote:

The actual change of football calender is a side issue that I barely touched on (if you read closely you see the phrase "isn't so much of a big deal"); you're assuming opinions of me there. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy to change the football calander, I'm attacking this on the basis that it's another example of the undemocratic nature of the bidding process and how little the detail of the bids has to do with what is voted for. The conspiracy I'm suggesting is they (Blatter, FIFA) wanted Qatar and found whatever way to get the bid through, brushing aside problems that everyone pointed out with temperature, etc - and only when they got it through do they start to address them. It all seems the wrong way round.

What else did you expect?

Besides which, compared to the 'conspiracy' of always holding the World Cup at a time to suit the entrenched footballing powers in Europe, this is pretty small fry. Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I've never heard you criticise FIFA's corruption and dishonesty when things were going our way. Perhaps you did, but our press certainly didn't give a fuck. Now we haven't got the World Cup, we're a bunch of whining bitches. Maybe that isn't applicable to you, but it sure as hell is to most of the people who've kicked up a fuss about this.

Fifa president Sepp Blatter expects the 2022 World Cup in Qatar to be held in January because of the country's intensely hot summers.

The tournament is traditionally held in June and July but temperatures in Qatar at that time of year can top 40C.

Speaking in the Qatari capital Doha, Blatter said: "I expect it [the 2022 World Cup] will be held in winter.

"It is 11 years away but we must decide the most adequate period, which means January or the end of the year."

Blatter, who is in Doha for the start of the Asian Cup, added: "Although we have the basic conditions of their bid for a June and July World Cup, the Fifa executive committee is entitled to change anything that was in the bid.

"When you play football you have to protect the main people - the players."

Fifa general secretary Jerome Valcke also supports the prospect of the 2022 World Cup being rescheduled.

Speaking in December, he said: "Why not? It means you open the World Cup to countries where they can never play it in June and July because it's never the right period of time.

"If you can do so, it would be a solution to open the organisation of the World Cup to a number of countries in this period which is winter in Europe but not winter in the rest of the world."

He added: "You can't just make a decision to move the tournament and that is it.

"It means you have to change completely when the leagues will play, mainly I would say in Europe. It's less difficult in the rest of the world."

Qatar beat Australia, Japan, South Korea and the United States to host the tournament in the vote by Fifa's executive committee on 2 December in Zurich.

Initially, former German World Cup-winning captain and coach Franz Beckenbauer had aired his worries about the health risk of the heat to players if the World Cup was staged during the Gulf nation's summer.

Uefa president Michel Platini also recently suggested the idea of moving the 2022 World Cup to December or January.

Meanwhile, Blatter also revealed in December that several nations in the Middle East were interested in hosting games during the 2022 World Cup and that he had met with officials in Oman, Bahrain and Kuwait during a tour of the region.

However, he did not elaborate on which of Qatar's neighbours wanted to host the games, or how many could be hosted, but he pointed out that such a decision would have to come first from Qatar and then from Fifa's 24-man executive committee.

"This demand has to come from the Qatar football organisation by saying we would like to have such and such things and this has to go back to Fifa and the Fifa executive committee has to say open it or don't open it," he said.

"I can say all these countries are very happy. First of all, the World Cup is going to the Middle East and they are interested - I would say a little bit more than interested - to be part of this competition.

"It is a wish. It is easy to say but it is not so easy to realise. For the time being, it's too early."

debaser wrote:On this we'll just have to differ and see who's right in time. I think it's reasonable to assume that if most of the power-wielders in football are behind an idea, it becomes likely to happen - there's no need for you to try and diminish that viewpoint by particular association with tabloids. If I hear David Cameron, Nick Clegg and George Osbourne all say the same thing on a new policy, I'm not blindly following tabloids if I think that policy may well come into fruition.

I totally accept I'm paying far more attention to Fifa because of the world cup bid and because of England's involvement in that initially. And in that I am similar to press indeed. Does my lack of recorded opinions on Fifa in the past mean I am disallowed from opinions now? I am learning.

What else did I expect? Not much, I guess. Yes, it's politics and that's the way it happens. Naive to expect anything else, but I don't want to get too cynical or we all become fucking politicians.

Brian2468 wrote: and what a way also to make sure England never sees a WC played on home soil again. Asshole

Der ehemalige Bundesgerichtshofs-Präsident Günter Hirsch zieht sich mit sofortiger Wirkung aus der Ethikkommission der FIFA zurück. Dadurch hat er die Glaubwürdigkeit und des Fußball-Weltverbandes sowie dessen Präsidenten Joseph Blatter weiter geschwächt.

Hirsch teilte seine Entscheidung dem Kommissions-Vorsitzenden Claudio Sulser kurz vor dem Jahreswechsel in einem Brief mit. In dem Schreiben, das der Nachrichtenagentur dpa vorliegt, erhob Hirsch Vorwürfe gegen die FIFA im Zusammenhang mit der Vergabe der Weltmeisterschaften 2018 und 2022 Anfang Dezember.

Von der FIFA war am Sonntag (09.01.11) zunächst keine Stellungnahme zu bekommen. Auf der offiziellen Homepage des Weltverbandes wird Hirsch noch immer als Mitglied der Kommission geführt.

Der 67-Jährige schrieb, "dass die Ereignisse der letzten Wochen bei mir den Eindruck erweckt und gefestigt haben, dass die Verantwortlichen der FIFA kein wirkliches Interesse daran haben, eine aktive Rolle bei der Aufklärung, Verfolgung und Vorbeugung von Verstößen gegen das Ethikreglement der FIFA zu spielen". Hirsch monierte nicht nur die Grundkonstruktion der Ethikkommission und sieht diese als verfehlt an. Der Jurist kritisierte auch die jüngsten Entscheidungen gegen FIFA-Spitzenfunktionäre im Zusammenhang mit möglichen Schmiergeldern bei der Doppel-Vergabe der WM für 2018 (Russland) und 2022 (Katar). Sie würden der Schwere der Verstöße nicht gerecht, befand Hirsch.

Sheffield gunner wrote:Otto, what do you make of this?

Der ehemalige Bundesgerichtshofs-Präsident Günter Hirsch zieht sich mit sofortiger Wirkung aus der Ethikkommission der FIFA zurück. Dadurch hat er die Glaubwürdigkeit und des Fußball-Weltverbandes sowie dessen Präsidenten Joseph Blatter weiter geschwächt.

Hirsch teilte seine Entscheidung dem Kommissions-Vorsitzenden Claudio Sulser kurz vor dem Jahreswechsel in einem Brief mit. In dem Schreiben, das der Nachrichtenagentur dpa vorliegt, erhob Hirsch Vorwürfe gegen die FIFA im Zusammenhang mit der Vergabe der Weltmeisterschaften 2018 und 2022 Anfang Dezember.

Von der FIFA war am Sonntag (09.01.11) zunächst keine Stellungnahme zu bekommen. Auf der offiziellen Homepage des Weltverbandes wird Hirsch noch immer als Mitglied der Kommission geführt.

Der 67-Jährige schrieb, "dass die Ereignisse der letzten Wochen bei mir den Eindruck erweckt und gefestigt haben, dass die Verantwortlichen der FIFA kein wirkliches Interesse daran haben, eine aktive Rolle bei der Aufklärung, Verfolgung und Vorbeugung von Verstößen gegen das Ethikreglement der FIFA zu spielen". Hirsch monierte nicht nur die Grundkonstruktion der Ethikkommission und sieht diese als verfehlt an. Der Jurist kritisierte auch die jüngsten Entscheidungen gegen FIFA-Spitzenfunktionäre im Zusammenhang mit möglichen Schmiergeldern bei der Doppel-Vergabe der WM für 2018 (Russland) und 2022 (Katar). Sie würden der Schwere der Verstöße nicht gerecht, befand Hirsch.

http://www.sportschau.de/sp/fussball/news201101/09/fifa_ethikkommission.jsp

ConDemolition wrote:

debaser wrote:On this we'll just have to differ and see who's right in time. I think it's reasonable to assume that if most of the power-wielders in football are behind an idea, it becomes likely to happen - there's no need for you to try and diminish that viewpoint by particular association with tabloids. If I hear David Cameron, Nick Clegg and George Osbourne all say the same thing on a new policy, I'm not blindly following tabloids if I think that policy may well come into fruition.

If I heard them all say the same thing I would assume they were floating a policy to see how people reacted, and that if it proved particularly unpopular they would reverse-float it back up the pipe and pretend they were never seriously considering it in the first place. You're right, we'll see what happens.