New RB maybe and new look england team for future maybe

It would be Brown or Glen Johnson who would take his place if he were to drop out of the team.

Its so infuriating to have a right back who is great at crossing but a really poor athlete so can't get up that often and then have an outstanding athlete at left back who looks a total fucking spastic whenever he has a ball at his feet.

Will need a few of these on Wednesday methinks.

I thought this board was WUM free.

I don't think England need a new RB, what's needed is a backup RB who is actually half decent and will make Gary Neville wake up and play to his best. Right now, converted CBs like Carragher and Brown, or only half-decent players like Phil Neville, Johnson, Hunt, Young, etc. aren't really going to trouble him for that spot.

I like Richards as lot, but to replace Neville now is not a good idea. Sure he will be 33 in 2008 but he still has an awful lot to offer England.

Richards is one for the future.

kasnani wrote:I don't think England need a new RB, what's needed is a backup RB who is actually half decent and will make Gary Neville wake up and play to his best. Right now, converted CBs like Carragher and Brown, or only half-decent players like Phil Neville, Johnson, Hunt, Young, etc. aren't really going to trouble him for that spot.

Thing is, unlike Hunt, Young etc, if you look at Glen Johnson's attributes he not "only half-decent" - he could certainly be one of the top RB's in Europe if he reaches his potential.

famousliverbird wrote:Crouch looked like the most likely to score yesterday! Ferdinand is not better than King and JT is captain he wont be dropped!

This is a statement, not an argument. In what way is King better than Ferdinand?

Positional sense - nope
Heading - nope
Bringing ball out of defence - nowhere near
Authority/experience - nope

You can't look at these players like Neville & Ferdinand now as they have passed their peaks, you got to think how they will do in a couple of years time, but for sure Richards, Agbonlahor & King will get better than what they are already!

Ferdinand will be 29 or 30 for the next tournament, i.e. at his peak (for his position). This is ridiculous. In desperately looking for a scapegoat you're backing fly-by-night 5 game wonders who are totally unproven even in Europe, let alone International games (except King, who is good enough but is not as good as either Terry or Ferdinand).

Not in a horrible way but Neville & Rio won't get no better

Not it a horrible way but this is pure idiocy. Learn to write properly.

and Richards & King are already better than the both of them and will keep on getting better!!!

In what way is Richards better than Neville? Because he's really young, but famous already, and so he must be really good? Tell you what, why don't we drop Crouch (most consistent England goalscorer over the last 12 months) and play Walcott? He's looked good in a few games, and 'Crouch won't get no better'...

The player most underperforming in an England shirt is Lampard, who has been poor/mediocre since Portugal 2004, when he was good. Gerrard hasn't played well for England for a while but he was saddled with covering for Lampard in the centre while playing as a split striker/right sided attacker for Liverpool in that period, ergo he was played out of position with a player whose mistakes and limitations are obvious to all, so not anything like the right circumstances to get the best out of him.

Drop Lampard, play Carrick and Hargreaves in midfield then put Gerrard, Cole and Rooney in a 3 behind the main striker, Crouch. If McClaren had any balls then that's what he'd do. He only plays Lampard due to his wages/reputation.

saintgoingmarching wrote:

famousliverbird wrote:Crouch looked like the most likely to score yesterday! Ferdinand is not better than King and JT is captain he wont be dropped!

This is a statement, not an argument. In what way is King better than Ferdinand?

Positional sense - nope
Heading - nope
Bringing ball out of defence - nowhere near
Authority/experience - nope

So Ledley's a hoofer then?
I've always said that Rio, IMHO is half-a-step ahead of King, purely because of the big-game issue. But whenever King has been asked to perform for England at CB (France Euro 2004) he's always done a sterling job. And I do think King slightly better in the Air than Rio, and can more than match him for pace - it's very close.

He's a great all-round defender - one of the 3 best English CB's along with Woodgate & Rio.
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As for the drop Neville argument - What bull$hit. Who have we got to replace him???

Young, or err.... Hunt

You've got to be on something if you think those 2 are anywhere close to him. He's 33, yes, but he's shown no signs of slowing down. Unless Glen Johnson puts a consistent season together, G.Neville is far and away our best Right-Back, always performing to a high standard in major tournaments and has relentless consistency. If you think he a pr!ck as a person, then fine, but his track-record can't be argued with.

He should be captain too.

He's 31. He won't be 33 till Euro 2008, which should be his last major tournament.

Parks Lives wrote:He's 31. He won't be 33 till Euro 2008, which should be his last major tournament.

Sorry, I was thinking ahead. He can go on till WC 2010 IMO unless a serious contender emerges.

A thread set-up by a fan of a Rival team who has let hatred cloud their better judgement.

Nah , he's just a WUM.

If a WUM has 3 lives, Famous Liverbird has at least used one of them so far.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

kasnani wrote:I don't think England need a new RB, what's needed is a backup RB who is actually half decent and will make Gary Neville wake up and play to his best. Right now, converted CBs like Carragher and Brown, or only half-decent players like Phil Neville, Johnson, Hunt, Young, etc. aren't really going to trouble him for that spot.

Thing is, unlike Hunt, Young etc, if you look at Glen Johnson's attributes he not "only half-decent" - he could certainly be one of the top RB's in Europe if he reaches his potential.

Johnson is a gifted footballer, he just needs to learn, like Ashley Cole did, how to position himself better because he is an attacking fullback by nature.

TeamSpirit wrote:

saintgoingmarching wrote:

famousliverbird wrote:Crouch looked like the most likely to score yesterday! Ferdinand is not better than King and JT is captain he wont be dropped!

This is a statement, not an argument. In what way is King better than Ferdinand?

Positional sense - nope
Heading - nope
Bringing ball out of defence - nowhere near
Authority/experience - nope

So Ledley's a hoofer then?

No, he's decent at bringing the ball out - reasonable dribbler for a centrehalf, good passer too. He's no Keown. But he's no Ferdinand either.

I've always said that Rio, IMHO is half-a-step ahead of King, purely because of the big-game issue. But whenever King has been asked to perform for England at CB (France Euro 2004) he's always done a sterling job.

True enough.

And I do think King slightly better in the Air than Rio, and can more than match him for pace - it's very close.

I've never seen it myself. Ledley's quick, but Ferdinand is very quick. I've seen him outpace Michael Owen and Thierry Henry.

He's a great all-round defender - one of the 3 best English CB's along with Woodgate & Rio.

Do you honestly rank Woodgate above Terry? I know that Terry is one-paced and needs a holding midfielder otherwise this aspect will be exposed but everything else about his game is, in my view, superior to Woodgate's...

Ledley = almost near perfect Ferdinand clone. Does (almost) everything Rio can do

Rio/Terry/King/Woodgate ideal England 4 centreback for 2008

Woody is injured

3 weeks I heard.

Yeah, thats what the papers say.

We only confirmed it today, he's out of the Everton game for definite.

Thats why Southgate had it right that the last thing he needs is an England call up.

He should have almost a season of regular football under his belt before they think about that.

@ Saints - 2 areas I rate Ledley ahead of Rio are Long Passing and aerial ability - His pass to Jenas at Stamford Bridge last season (though JJ shot straight at Cech) was of the highest quality. If Gerrard had produced that, we'd still be talking about that pass today.

Ledley's also two-footed, and He can drift into midfield and dish it of in the most composed manner - much like Ferdinand. His leadership (at club level, anyway) is under-appreciated... The defence normally goes to $hit without him.

Ledley is Just as quick as Rio, I've seen him beat Henry, Owen, Reyes Darren Huckerby, Craig Bellamy - all players who'se main asset is pace.

He's also terrific at timing Challenges - ala Reyes @ WHL last year, and on Bellamy at Anfield this season.

His disciplinary record is also tremendous - he's still in single figures for bookings in his entire career.

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And yes, Woodgate is much better than Terry - but so are many others . As is the norm, Terry is only better than Woodgate in the air.

King is more commanding in the air.

Everything else is very close, with Rio getting the nod in alot (not all) of the areas by a small margin.

Rio's probably more vocal though, which is important.

Parks Lives wrote:King is more commanding in the air.

Everything else is very close, with Rio getting the nod in alot (not all) of the areas by a small margin.

Rio's probably more vocal though, which is important.

Though King is a better leader than his quiet, uassuming style - suggests. Dawson who on paper should be the more vocal of the 2, never actually puts it into practice when King's out.

Rio's also less injury-prone

I'll add King is also stronger than Ferdinand the two have been and still the best CB's in the country for England. I Remember that long post we done a year or so ago on 606. Terry has improved since then but not to such a great extent to be better than King...... With King injuries knock him getting a consistantly high appeal to the public. Where Terry this reliable tried and trusted plugging on image..........:

Brian3-5-2 wrote:I'll add King is also stronger than Ferdinand the two have been and still the best CB's in the country for England. I Remember that long post we done a year or so ago on 606. Terry has improved since then but not to such a great extent to be better than King...... With King injuries knock him getting a consistantly high appeal to the public. Where Terry this reliable tried and trusted plugging on image..........:

brian the image is the main thing. I rate terry higher than some of you lot here. But rio is out, king comes in, first thing garth crooks asks, is why not carragher
We probably wont see rio and king together as even if terry is injured he still plays, and if he plays poorly, media just says he was injured explains his performance.
If we did see king and rio together, and both played great then maybe it could get the ball rolling, right now rio place is the only one under threat.

TeamSpirit wrote:@ Saints - 2 areas I rate Ledley ahead of Rio are Long Passing and aerial ability - His pass to Jenas at Stamford Bridge last season (though JJ shot straight at Cech) was of the highest quality. If Gerrard had produced that, we'd still be talking about that pass today.

Sorry, don't remember that one. That, however, may prove your point.

Ledley's also two-footed, and He can drift into midfield and dish it of in the most composed manner - much like Ferdinand. His leadership (at club level, anyway) is under-appreciated... The defence normally goes to $hit without him.

Possibly one of the reasons for Tottenham's dodgy start to the season?

In truth, he was possibly your best player last season from what I've seen, but I maybe haven't seen enough of him to make a fair assessment.

Ledley is Just as quick as Rio, I've seen him beat Henry, Owen, Reyes Darren Huckerby, Craig Bellamy - all players who'se main asset is pace.

Fair enough.

He's also terrific at timing Challenges - ala Reyes @ WHL last year, and on Bellamy at Anfield this season.

Now you're just being a little obsessive...

His disciplinary record is also tremendous - he's still in single figures for bookings in his entire career.

Okay, you've convinced me to take a further look at him. I've always seen him as a good player for England, and Sven often used him in the 3rd centreback position. He called it a defensive midfielder in a 4-4-2 but it was more like a 5-3-1-1 or possibly a 4-1-3-1-1.

Like I say, I'm willing to look again on this one.

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And yes, Woodgate is much better than Terry - but so are many others . As is the norm, Terry is only better than Woodgate in the air.

Terry's a great communicator and organiser, doesn't get injured much, reads the game very well and never shirks a challenge. I'm not so convinced about Woodgate. Maybe at his best he is a best centrehalf than Terry, but he's not too consistent and he doesn't have the ability to lead a team from the back like Terry does. Nonetheless, I'd be happy with a Ferdinand-King partnership for England. I'm pretty happy with the Ferdinand-Terry one as well.

I still think England should go 3 at the back with 2 wing backs:

-----------Rio---Terry---King-------------
Neville------------------------------Bridge

S4P wrote:I still think England should go 3 at the back with 2 wing backs:

-----------Rio---Terry---King-------------
Neville------------------------------Bridge

Ah Ha.... Maybe a converted poster to 3-5-2 willing for England to seek greener pastures.......

King actually put in one the best weighted crosses into the 18 yard box from the right side against Macedonia, towards the end of the game did anyone notice it.

S4P wrote:I still think England should go 3 at the back with 2 wing backs:

-----------Rio---Terry---King-------------
Neville------------------------------Bridge

Point of wing-backs is to provide some attacking down the wings, which I don't really see them contributing too much (neither are that mobile, fast or energetic), end up with 5 at the back.

- - Neville - Rio - Woodgate
Johnson - - - - - - - - - - Barry

Would be the ideal back 5. Both Johnson and Barry can play on the wings in midfield, so the option to switch to a back 4 would be available at any time. Especially considering Neville is obviously extremely comfortable at rightback.

Not sure about Woodgate, but I'm fairly sure he's left-footed, so atleast that brings some balance to the side.

Obispo wrote:- - Neville - Rio - Woodgate
Johnson - - - - - - - - - - Barry

Would be the ideal back 5. Both Johnson and Barry can play on the wings in midfield, so the option to switch to a back 4 would be available at any time. Especially considering Neville is obviously extremely comfortable at rightback.

Not sure about Woodgate, but I'm fairly sure he's left-footed, so atleast that brings some balance to the side.

Woodgate is injured again, could be out for 3 weeks or more.

Really don't see why people keep including him at this stage.

Parks Lives wrote:

Obispo wrote:- - Neville - Rio - Woodgate
Johnson - - - - - - - - - - Barry

Would be the ideal back 5. Both Johnson and Barry can play on the wings in midfield, so the option to switch to a back 4 would be available at any time. Especially considering Neville is obviously extremely comfortable at rightback.

Not sure about Woodgate, but I'm fairly sure he's left-footed, so atleast that brings some balance to the side.

Woodgate is injured again, could be out for 3 weeks or more.

Really don't see why people keep including him at this stage.

England don't have another left-footed centreback that immiediately springs to mind, so I can't say many better for a 3-5-2.


if only agger were English, eh?