The real ORANJE-ENGLAND topic; before and after the game!

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BREAKING NEWS

Milan star Clarence Seedorf has been handed a shock recall to the Holland squad for Wednesday's friendly with England.

The 30-year-old has not played for Oranje since 2004 and it seemed as if Marco van Basten would continue his international exile after failing to call him up during his tenure thus far.

However, in a surprise u-turn, Seedorf has now been handed the chance to return to the fold.Van Basten turned to Seedorf following an injury to Ajax's Wesley Sneijder.

Seedorf said in the TV-program on Talpa’s De wedstrijden “I am very glad”. “I have no problems with Marco” (van Basten). “If he opens his arms I’ll immediately jump in it”

Last couple of weeks Seedorf opened a charming offensive to win back the hearts of the Dutch people. First, he was interviewed by the NOS, Dutch national television, and smiled at the interviewer when he was asked about a possible return into the Dutch squad. After that the Dutch press speculated already about a possible return.

A week later he was in the football talk show voetbalinsite where he humbly said he wants to play in the duty of the Dutch team. He also said his biggest dream is to win a big tournament with the Dutch team.

“If Van Basten doesn’t want me to play for the big Oranje, I want to play for the U-21 squad at the Olympic Games”, said the Milan star.

He also showed a lot of self-criticism. He said he made a lot mistakes in the past and he understood the Dutch crowd didn’t like him because of his attitude in some interviews.

But, also after this charming offensive Van Basten didn’t put him in the squad. Van Basten said last Friday he was impressed about the interview in Voetbalinsite but he already has Wesley Sneijder and Rafael van der Vaart as playmakers in the Dutch squad. The national coach also admitted he thought about selecting Seedorf for the game against Luxembourg but, Van Basten also said,

“Luxembourg is not the right game for a player like Clarence, because Luxembourg is not good enough to give him a real chance”

Now Wesley Sneijder is injured, Van Basten decided to add Seedorf to the squad. Seedorf, who has played in four major tournaments for Holland, has 77 caps to his name and he will now be looking to add to that figure.

Both sides of fans are moaning about the decisions their manager has made in the selection-process.

Let's get one thing straight : Van Basten is a monkey equal to the level of SGE

The team that will go out on the pitch on wednesday does *not* deserve to be called Oranje !

Dutch squad:

Goalkeepers: Henk Timmer (Feyenoord), Maarten Stekelenburg (Ajax).

Defenders: Urby Emanuelson (Ajax), Kew Jaliens (AZ Alkmaar), Joris Mathijsen (Hamburg), Andre Ooijer (Blackburn Rovers), De Cler (AZ Alkmaar), Khalid Boulahrouz (Chelsea).

Midfielders: Clarence Seedorf (Milan), Stijn Schaars (AZ Alkmaar), Denny Landzaat (Wigan Athletic), Rafael van der Vaart (Hamburg), Hedwiges Maduro (Ajax), David Mendes da Silva (AZ Alkmaar), Evander Sno (Celtic)

Forwards: Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (Ajax), Robin van Persie (Arsenal) Dirk Kuyt (Liverpool), Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink (Celtic), Arjen Robben (Chelsea)

Likely first team, Ricardo?

Parkey:

Possible line-up!!!!

---------------------Timmer----------------------

Boulahrouz------Ooijer-----Mathijsen----Emanuelson

---Landzaat---------Schaars----------Van der Vaart—

Van Persie---------Huntelaar-------------Robben


But what about this….?

-------------------Timmer-----------------

Boulahrouz---Ooijer-Mathijsen—De Cler

-------------------Schaars----------------------

----Landzaat---------------------Seedorf----

--------------Van der Vaart------------------

-----------Kuyt--------Van Persie------------

ricardojol wrote:

Possible line-up!!!!

---------------------Timmer----------------------

Boulahrouz------Ooijer-----Mathijsen----Emanuelson

---Landzaat---------Schaars----------Van der Vaart—

Van Persie---------Huntelaar-------------Robben

Stekelenburg for Timmer and you've got the team I expect Marco will play.

ricardojol wrote:

But what about this….?

-------------------Timmer-----------------

Boulahrouz---Ooijer-Mathijsen—De Cler

-------------------Schaars----------------------

----Landzaat---------------------Seedorf----

--------------Van der Vaart------------------

-----------Kuyt--------Van Persie------------

Already *way* better (both De Cler and Seedorf were not originally selected ).

Now replace Landzaat by De Zeeuw, Mathijsen by Kromkamp....switch Kromkamp and Boulahrouz and suddenly you've got a very decent team...

Is Schaars the guy people are calling the next Cocu?

Are they similar?

Parks Lives wrote:Is Schaars the guy people are calling the next Cocu?

Are they similar?

He is labeled (in some sectors) as the 'new Cocu' .. but not 'as' good ... yet.

- He's a natural born leader.
- He's two footed..
- .. i can see him more as a 'box to box' midfielder (defend and score ..)

@ Parkey

It is always dangerous to compare a newbee like Schaars with a player like Cocu. He is at the moment not even allowed to clean Cocu's boots but....

He is also a versitile player. Works hard, has a decent pass can score beautiful goals and was the captain of the successful U-21 squad. The team that became European Champion in Portugal.

@Axe

As always you are way to negative on the Dutch team. Kromkamp hasn't performed well at PSV at the moment and Landzaat is the most underrated player in the Dutch squad.

He was almost faultless in the games against Bulgaria and Albania. He didn't lose a ball and all his passes were correct. You hardly notice him in the game and that's why people don't rate him.

Demy de Zeeuw is light weight and people always say the midfield has no body... Why do we want Demy de Zeeuw (he is smaller than Wesley Sneijder) then???????????

I am not saying Demy de Zeeuw and Kromkamp are not good enough for this team. They have the quality and you can swap them for the players you mentioned

But I don't see much difference then...

@ ricardo

---------------------Timmer----------------------

Boulahrouz------Ooijer-----Mathijsen----Emanuelson

---Landzaat---------Schaars----------Van der Vaart—

Van Persie---------Huntelaar-------------Robben

If ... van Basten plays this team, only one Ajax player in the team (so how can we criticise the team if they do .. lose?)

I'd have De Cler instead of Urby (not ready enough) can he deal with Stevie G ....

England squad...?

Goalkeepers: Paul Robinson (Tottenham), Ben Foster (Man Utd)

Defenders: Phil Neville (Everton), Micah Richards (Man City), Rio Ferdinand (Man Utd), John Terry (Chelsea), Jamie Carragher (Liverpool), Wes Brown (Man Utd), Michael Dawson (Tottenham), Ashley Cole (Chelsea), Wayne Bridge (Chelsea).

Midfield: Aaron Lennon (Tottenham), Shaun Wright-Phillips (Chelsea), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Michael Carrick (Man Utd), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham), Joe Cole (Chelsea).

Forwards: Wayne Rooney (Man Utd), Peter Crouch (Liverpool), Jermain Defoe (Tottenham), Andrew Johnson (Everton).

We have no real right back replacement for Neville and it looks like Lennon will start. Not sure who will play up front with Rooney either.

My team -


------------------- Robinson
P.Neville ----- Ferdinand --- Terry ---- A Cole
Lennon ------ Gerrard ---- Carrick ----- J Cole
-------------- Rooney --- Bent/Johnson/Defoe


I'd personally drop Crouch, mainly as he doesn't make a good partner for Rooney.

If Lennon doesn't start then it will be Gerrard on the right and Lampard in the centre.

I miss Lampard...

Parks Lives wrote:We have no real right back replacement for Neville and it looks like Lennon will start. Not sure who will play up front with Rooney either.

My team -


------------------- Robinson
P.Neville ----- Ferdinand --- Terry ---- A Cole
Lennon ------ Gerrard ---- Carrick ----- J Cole
-------------- Rooney --- Bent/Johnson/Defoe


I'd personally drop Crouch, mainly as he doesn't make a good partner for Rooney.

If Lennon doesn't start then it will be Gerrard on the right and Lampard in the centre.

Richards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> P Neville, and he's not even 18 yet.

I'd play this side:

---------------- Foster --------------

Richards ---- Ferdinand-- Terry ---- A. Cole

Lennon --- Lampard ---Carrick ------ J.Cole

---------- Rooney ---- Bent ---------------

Lampard has been playing well, but then so has Carrick, so actually I'd consider ditching Gerrard whose been poor so far and go with Flumps in mid.

crouch a 2nd half sub, Bent deserves his chance

Bent has pulled out?

Has he? My bad. Johnson then. The point of these friendlies should be to look at other striking options other than Crouch (we all know what he can do), and to give Rooney a run of games

Aaron Lennon looks set to start for England against Holland alongside Andy Johnson and Joe Cole.


The Spurs winger will get his first start as Steven Gerrard is switched back into the middle to have another crack at playing alongside Frank Lampard.


Andy Johnson is expected to replace Peter Crouch in attack, while Joe Cole will come in on the left as England revert to a 4-4-2 formation.


England boss Steve McClaren has been hit by the withdrawls of six players - Chris Kirkland, Gary Neville, Ledley King, Scott Parker, Stewart Downing and Darren Bent - leaving him with a 22-man squad.


Neville's absence gives McClaren a decision to make about Manchester City's Micah Richards, with Phil Neville and Jamie Carragher less risky options at right-back.


McClaren said: "I'm looking forward to meeting the players in the squad because there are some exciting ones there. The three that stand out are Aaron Lennon, Andy Johnson and Joe Cole, players who weren't available for us a month ago.


"All three of them have pace, can beat people and can excite the public. The two wingers can put in crosses.


"Aaron has been very effective when I've seen him..


"He's played on the right, the left and behind the two strikers and when you have a player as flexible as that, who can beat people as well, he can be a threat anywhere on the park. Having Aaron available gives us an opportunity to put Steven in the middle if we want to do that and look at different things.


"From day one I wanted to bring in pace, penetration, mobility and athleticism to the squad.


"Aaron epitomises that, as does Andy, Joe and Micah Richards, who we have in the squad. What we are searching for now is the blend and balance in the midfield."

Gerrard and Lampard in midfield !
Holland to win 1-0.

BilalShah wrote:Gerrard and Lampard in midfield !
Holland to win 1-0.

Lets hope this is the journalist's assumption. I cannot believe Mclaren is going to leave Carrick out in he form he is in; or indeed Lampard, who Im no massive fan of, but has been excellent this season so far.

Gerrard needs to be dropped based on his current form. The rest might do him good

Lets hope.

I know Richards is going to be better but he's still very inexperienced. Him and Lennon (who is also inexperienced) on the right flank could work wonders it could be a completely embarresment.

I'd either play Pip Neville behind Lennon or Richards behind Gerrard, least we have some experience in the side.

ricardojol wrote:

@Axe

As always you are way to negative on the Dutch team.

I haven't always been this way.

It's just that I can't keep quiet when I see MVB, who has to be one of the worst managers of Oranje *ever*, make blatent mistakes by the bucketload, getting away with it and not learning anything from it.

It gives me no pleasure anymore to watch Oranje, not even Advocaat has managed that feat.

ricardojol wrote:
Kromkamp hasn't performed well at PSV at the moment

couldn't disagree more : Kromkamp is back to his AZ form atm !

ricardojol wrote:
and Landzaat is the most underrated player in the Dutch squad.

He has not been getting enough praise when he was playing good, but also not enough flak when he was playing bad.

He isn't in form at the moment and is not getting any better at Wigan.

So I suggest we let one the best players in the Eredivisie at the moment (Demi de Zeeuw) take over for now.

ricardojol wrote:
Demy de Zeeuw is light weight and people always say the midfield has no body... Why do we want Demy de Zeeuw (he is smaller than Wesley Sneijder) then???????????

I can't believe he's smaller, but that doesn't matter anyway : he gets the job done ! He's Cocu's natural successor.

ricardojol wrote:
I am not saying Demy de Zeeuw and Kromkamp are not good enough for this team. They have the quality and you can swap them for the players you mentioned

But I don't see much difference then...

You're not a believer, that's okay....but I do believe in these two (although I think it's more important to get De Cler in the team).

Personally I'd go for an entire AZ frame for the team, with substitutions in attack :

Timmer

Jaliens - Opdam - Mathijsen - De Cler

De Zeeuw - Schaars - Mendes

Van der Vaart

Kuyt/Nistelrooy - Van Persie

Parks Lives wrote:I know Richards is going to be better but he's still very inexperienced. Him and Lennon (who is also inexperienced) on the right flank could work wonders it could be a completely embarresment.

I'd either play Pip Neville behind Lennon or Richards behind Gerrard, least we have some experience in the side.

True, but then Richards and Lennon have played on the right together for the under 21's.

I dont see the point Mclaren carrying on with Neville Jnr. I think I'm quite good a spotting a decent player when I see one, and I have never thought Phil Neville was anything but a hugely inferior version of Gary. He doesnt deserve to play for England, I'd rather see Richards being groomed for the future than seeing P Neville be picked just because he's a "safe" option. He isnt safe - England will never be anything than above average if they carry on picking players like P Neville.

Rant over ;-)

Thing is after Gaz Neville there is no good right backs for England. Luke Young, Pip Neville are not good enough, Richards and Glen Johnson aren't ready yet imo, despite the constant campaigns to rush them forward.

I mean this season I'd say Pip Neville has been better than Richards as a right back, some of his crossing has been very good.

Anyways, I'd play Wes 'Orange' Brown over all of them.

Parks Lives wrote:Thing is after Gaz Neville there is no good right backs for England. Luke Young, Pip Neville are not good enough, Richards and Glen Johnson aren't ready yet imo, despite the constant campaigns to rush them forward.

I mean this season I'd say Pip Neville has been better than Richards as a right back, some of his crossing has been very good.

Anyways, I'd play Wes 'Orange' Brown over all of them.

There is a dearth after Gaz, but after seeing Micah playing so well in a pressurised play off for the under 21's against Germany, and a number of seemingly impressive displays for Man City, I dont think its a bad idea bringing him in for this game, and then having him as Neville's deputy in future competitive squads.

He clearly has "it" to become international class, despite only being 17. Neville P may be "safer", but its so Svenlike to play it safe (Walcott issue apart where the old guy took a gamble!) rather than look more long term.

He really should be calling up Parnaby. We've had to watch him for years I think its about time the rest of the world got that chance.

He made a huge mistake in one of the under 21 games though. I think like many young players, people are desperate for them to do well, so overlook alot of there flaws. I've not seen much of his distribution that makes me think he should be playing International games.

Your right though, Pip Neville isn't good enough either.

Like I said however, Brown is in the squad and is a very good right back, even though centre back is his number one position. I won't moan if Richards plays but I wouldn't be surprised if he's exposed either.

Parks Lives wrote:He made a huge mistake in one of the under 21 games though. I think like many young players, people are desperate for them to do well, so overlook alot of there flaws. I've not seen much of his distribution that makes me think he should be playing International games.

Your right though, Pip Neville isn't good enough either.

Like I said however, Brown is in the squad and is a very good right back, even though centre back is his number one position. I won't moan if Richards plays but I wouldn't be surprised if he's exposed either.

There is definitely truth in that. Reason why I personally overlooked the couple of errors he made was because he was composed, ditributed well and looked dangerous going forward. Importantly, he skinned people, or looked short when in possesion. Cant stand watching fullbacks who look up and play it long because they are not skilled enough to get out of pressurised situations safely.

Phil Neville falls into that last category, hence my dislike for him.

Baked Bean Brown is a decent option, better than Phil and Jamie Carragher, but Richards is more mobile from what I have seen, and I think that extra mobility and composure is what international class fullbacks need. G Neville has it, Glen Johnson has it, Ashley Cole has it, Wayne Bridge has it - what seperates them from being just a defender.

Brown's best position is definitely in the centre IMO.

borocooper wrote:He really should be calling up Parnaby. We've had to watch him for years I think its about time the rest of the world got that chance.

What about Ramage?