Serie A - The 2007-08 season thread

bluenine wrote:nah, dude, didn't mean it in any bad way.... Inter were the better team today, and Juve got a bit lucky with a deflected goal... Juve didn't have any other real chance, while Inter had a few.

We were also unlucky on a few calls, and injuries at a crucial time to Figo and Maicon which wiped out our potent right wing!!

But in football, these things happen. I am glad we gave a decent display in turin against a spirited Juve... I have little doubt that it will be a different result in the return leg

TarunDang wrote:

bluenine wrote:Juve steal a draw... they seem to be getting lucky against big teams, just like they did against Roma..

So any team that's able to draw or win against Inter is a lucky team
C'mon Bluey...or maybe you want to suggest that even luck is against Inter

Pirlo wrote:The match was there for Inter, but a combination of some unlucky line calls from the referee and some brilliant improvising from Buffon kept them out. Juventus' defence was horrifically exposed tactically, and despite the energetic and hard-working display from their midfield and attack they were contained easily, Cesar was hardly worked and the goal was a degree of fortune, it was a compelling match to watch if only for the performance of the Juventus fans and players who seem to have a very bizarre concept of justice .

Tactically Ranieri needs to start phasing out Nedved and Del Piero who are both now virtually useless and pointless, Palladino and Iaquinta are far more effective and work a defence harder, Juve became much more flexible and robust once they were both on the pitch and pushed up onto Inter's back line. Samuel, Chivu and Cordaba were superb and gave a real lesson in how to defend intelligently from direct football, Maicon wasn't as adventurous, but as the match went on he seized more initiative on Molinaro and the open nature of Juve's wide areas really helped him.

A good containment by Ranieri after the equaliser, he strangled Inters central areas by playing a very narrow 4-3-3, but his high line and lack of width exposed the wider areas and you saw how isolated his defence was when Inter stole posession and countered - he was left often with three defenders who kept very narrow.

A good match and an enjoyable one tactically, fantastic point for Juventus, two dropped for Inter though they can afford it, if Juve hadn't have equalised then i have no doubt that Inter would have won it, one criticism of Mancini was that Suazo wasn't deployed earlier, as soon as he came on Juve equalised and dropped just that bit deeper when Inter had possession.

TarunDang wrote:

bluenine wrote:nah, dude, didn't mean it in any bad way.... Inter were the better team today, and Juve got a bit lucky with a deflected goal... Juve didn't have any other real chance, while Inter had a few.

We were also unlucky on a few calls, and injuries at a crucial time to Figo and Maicon which wiped out our potent right wing!!

But in football, these things happen. I am glad we gave a decent display in turin against a spirited Juve... I have little doubt that it will be a different result in the return leg

TarunDang wrote:

bluenine wrote:Juve steal a draw... they seem to be getting lucky against big teams, just like they did against Roma..

So any team that's able to draw or win against Inter is a lucky team
C'mon Bluey...or maybe you want to suggest that even luck is against Inter

And a good thing to notice is that contrary to popular opinion about Juve's performance this season, so far they have done remarkebaly well & got good results against all the big teams except Milan. good to see them still going strong in the race. It will be a very exciting season

supermadrid wrote:

S4P wrote:

Agooner wrote:

S4P wrote:

Agooner wrote:Buffon = just a different class to most keepers around.

He's the one keeping juve in this match.

Understandable. He is one of the very best goalkeepers in the world, which is why the first sentence is simply stating the obvious.

I'd say he is the best.

Cech has dropped a bit since that injury, not as commanding as he used to be.

6 clean sheets in 7 games my friend, I'd say he's getting back to his best

Imo, the 3 at the top are Buffon, Cech and Casillas. It just depends on what you prefer in a goalie.

cant say i agree. i think buffon is the best clearly while the other two are on the same level.

Giovinco was the scorer with a Ronaldinho-style wonder goal. The home side were awarded a free-kick way out on the right about 30 yards out and Giovinco whipped an extraordinary dipping and curling shot into the top corner. The goal was reminiscent of Ronaldinho's winner for Brazil against England in the 2002 World Cup Quarter Final, however unlike the Barcelona man's strike, there was no doubt that Giovinco meant it. What a game! The Juventus-owned starlet is rated as one of the most promising youngsters in Europe, however he has been used sparely by Cagni this season.

"Will Sebastian Giovinco become a first team player? We’ll see, he is very young and still needs time,” warned the ex-Catanzaro Coach.

Tweedle wrote:

bluenine wrote:Tweedy of course thinks that Giovinco is a useless player with no end product!! Hopefully after tonight, Tweedy would have watched Giovinco for more than 5 minutes on which his judgement is probably based.

Well, you hyped him up as the best young talent in Serie A, which means he's competing with Messi in La Liga and Cesc in the EPL... he doesn't match up. He made a couple of good passes and scored but part from that, totally and cpmpletely anonymous! If that guy is the future of Serie A then the league is fucked!

S4P wrote:

supermadrid wrote:

S4P wrote:

Agooner wrote:

S4P wrote:

Agooner wrote:Buffon = just a different class to most keepers around.

He's the one keeping juve in this match.

Understandable. He is one of the very best goalkeepers in the world, which is why the first sentence is simply stating the obvious.

I'd say he is the best.

Cech has dropped a bit since that injury, not as commanding as he used to be.

6 clean sheets in 7 games my friend, I'd say he's getting back to his best

Imo, the 3 at the top are Buffon, Cech and Casillas. It just depends on what you prefer in a goalie.

cant say i agree. i think buffon is the best clearly while the other two are on the same level.

On what basis? He's been around longer? Fair point, but that doesn't necessarily make him "clearly better than the other 2."

bluenine wrote:Tweedy, you just never listen, and then start quoting completely out of context. If you haven't chosen a career yet, I would suggest becoming a paparazzi, of the tabloid kind

In Italy the young kids are never given the chances to mature, like a Cesc has had... he has been playing quite regularily now for a few seasons at the top level, and that speedens a players development... Giovinco has had less top level experience than Walcott, for example. Its just not a fair comparison. Compare him to someone who is playing his first season at a senior team for a small club, and is a bench player.

Here is what Empoli's coach had to say after the game:

Giovinco was the scorer with a Ronaldinho-style wonder goal. The home side were awarded a free-kick way out on the right about 30 yards out and Giovinco whipped an extraordinary dipping and curling shot into the top corner. The goal was reminiscent of Ronaldinho's winner for Brazil against England in the 2002 World Cup Quarter Final, however unlike the Barcelona man's strike, there was no doubt that Giovinco meant it. What a game! The Juventus-owned starlet is rated as one of the most promising youngsters in Europe, however he has been used sparely by Cagni this season.

"Will Sebastian Giovinco become a first team player? We’ll see, he is very young and still needs time,” warned the ex-Catanzaro Coach.

Can you see the difference? Giovinco is 20, playing for a team struggling in relegation zone, easily their most gifted player, but the coach wants to mature him slowly. Thats the way it is in Italy.

Tweedle wrote:Bluey, we can only dedjudge that all Serie A caoches are complete imbeciles! If every club has a Cesc then quite honeslty its socking that a Serie A club dosn't win the CL every season going

It was a sweet shot, but he's far from complete. He's like an Aaron Lennon - he can produce it in moments but he is far FAR away from a Messi or a Cesc, which I'm sure you can admit. Compare him to both of them at you peril.

bluenine wrote:Tweedy, you just never listen, and then start quoting completely out of context. If you haven't chosen a career yet, I would suggest becoming a paparazzi, of the tabloid kind

In Italy the young kids are never given the chances to mature, like a Cesc has had... he has been playing quite regularily now for a few seasons at the top level, and that speedens a players development... Giovinco has had less top level experience than Walcott, for example. Its just not a fair comparison. Compare him to someone who is playing his first season at a senior team for a small club, and is a bench player.

Here is what Empoli's coach had to say after the game:

Giovinco was the scorer with a Ronaldinho-style wonder goal. The home side were awarded a free-kick way out on the right about 30 yards out and Giovinco whipped an extraordinary dipping and curling shot into the top corner. The goal was reminiscent of Ronaldinho's winner for Brazil against England in the 2002 World Cup Quarter Final, however unlike the Barcelona man's strike, there was no doubt that Giovinco meant it. What a game! The Juventus-owned starlet is rated as one of the most promising youngsters in Europe, however he has been used sparely by Cagni this season.

"Will Sebastian Giovinco become a first team player? We’ll see, he is very young and still needs time,” warned the ex-Catanzaro Coach.

Can you see the difference? Giovinco is 20, playing for a team struggling in relegation zone, easily their most gifted player, but the coach wants to mature him slowly. Thats the way it is in Italy.

supermadrid wrote:
first of all buffon has consistently held a level of allround play for a longer time and that is what makes him so much more impressive that even after all these years he is still keeping this level. also i never ever get the impression that buffon might make a blunder while i do so more with cech and casillas,not that much really but i gues it might be very different from another point of view.

Tweedle wrote:Bluey, we can only dedjudge that all Serie A caoches are complete imbeciles! If every club has a Cesc then quite honeslty its socking that a Serie A club dosn't win the CL every season going

It was a sweet shot, but he's far from complete. He's like an Aaron Lennon - he can produce it in moments but he is far FAR away from a Messi or a Cesc, which I'm sure you can admit. Compare him to both of them at you peril.

bluenine wrote:Tweedy, you just never listen, and then start quoting completely out of context. If you haven't chosen a career yet, I would suggest becoming a paparazzi, of the tabloid kind

In Italy the young kids are never given the chances to mature, like a Cesc has had... he has been playing quite regularily now for a few seasons at the top level, and that speedens a players development... Giovinco has had less top level experience than Walcott, for example. Its just not a fair comparison. Compare him to someone who is playing his first season at a senior team for a small club, and is a bench player.

Here is what Empoli's coach had to say after the game:

Giovinco was the scorer with a Ronaldinho-style wonder goal. The home side were awarded a free-kick way out on the right about 30 yards out and Giovinco whipped an extraordinary dipping and curling shot into the top corner. The goal was reminiscent of Ronaldinho's winner for Brazil against England in the 2002 World Cup Quarter Final, however unlike the Barcelona man's strike, there was no doubt that Giovinco meant it. What a game! The Juventus-owned starlet is rated as one of the most promising youngsters in Europe, however he has been used sparely by Cagni this season.

"Will Sebastian Giovinco become a first team player? We’ll see, he is very young and still needs time,” warned the ex-Catanzaro Coach.

Can you see the difference? Giovinco is 20, playing for a team struggling in relegation zone, easily their most gifted player, but the coach wants to mature him slowly. Thats the way it is in Italy.

bluenine wrote:Good point there. Buffon has been consistantly remarkable for a decade now, its almost unbelievable.

I have asked this question here, and to some Juve/Parma fans... and no one remembers anything - when did Buffon make a mistake??

It bugs me, that none of us big time Serie A and Italy fans remember... the only one we could collectively come up with was in his Juve debut against Chievo when he parried a ball to a striker. Thats it, in a career of a decade at top flight!!! Its not remarkable, its almost inhuman!!

supermadrid wrote:
first of all buffon has consistently held a level of allround play for a longer time and that is what makes him so much more impressive that even after all these years he is still keeping this level. also i never ever get the impression that buffon might make a blunder while i do so more with cech and casillas,not that much really but i gues it might be very different from another point of view.

supermadrid wrote:first of all buffon has consistently held a level of allround play for a longer time and that is what makes him so much more impressive that even after all these years he is still keeping this level. also i never ever get the impression that buffon might make a blunder while i do so more with cech and casillas,not that much really but i gues it might be very different from another point of view.

Fey wrote:Yeah Italians should give more youngsters a chance...if they werent so succesful! They won 4 WC's and shitloads of CL's so I think that justifies it. Same with the defending playstyle..If it aint broken dont fix it

Carlton Cole wrote:Tweedle is asking why though Bluey. We give all our young players a chance and bring them in early, talented kids who are brought into teams early turn into great players...

Fabregas, Rooney, Lennon, Noble etc...all played from about the age of 17/18.

I myself, don't understand why younger talented players are not played regularly in Serie A. I think Tweedle has a fair point, in saying that...young talented players like Giovinco, should be playing regularly for their clubs.

During our relegation battle...we played Noble, who was one of our best players, and a big part in us staying up...Serie A coaches should do the same.

BoBo Vieri wrote:

bluenine wrote:Good point there. Buffon has been consistantly remarkable for a decade now, its almost unbelievable.

I have asked this question here, and to some Juve/Parma fans... and no one remembers anything - when did Buffon make a mistake??

It bugs me, that none of us big time Serie A and Italy fans remember... the only one we could collectively come up with was in his Juve debut against Chievo when he parried a ball to a striker. Thats it, in a career of a decade at top flight!!! Its not remarkable, its almost inhuman!!

supermadrid wrote:
first of all buffon has consistently held a level of allround play for a longer time and that is what makes him so much more impressive that even after all these years he is still keeping this level. also i never ever get the impression that buffon might make a blunder while i do so more with cech and casillas,not that much really but i gues it might be very different from another point of view.

he made a mistake against newcastle in the CL in 2002!

Carlton Cole wrote:Tweedle is asking why though Bluey. We give all our young players a chance and bring them in early, talented kids who are brought into teams early turn into great players...

Fabregas, Rooney, Lennon, Noble etc...all played from about the age of 17/18.

I myself, don't understand why younger talented players are not played regularly in Serie A. I think Tweedle has a fair point, in saying that...young talented players like Giovinco, should be playing regularly for their clubs.

During our relegation battle...we played Noble, who was one of our best players, and a big part in us staying up...Serie A coaches should do the same.

supermadrid wrote:if you have to say anything against this system it should be that sometimes you just need the best players there is to play and who knows maybe he could help empoli out. sure italys system has worked but its all about finding a balance and maybe a few more should get a chance.

bluenine wrote:If young Giovinco continues to play like this, I am sure he will become a regular by the end of the season... but this is his first season in the senior team, and I can completely understand why Cagni is easing him slowly into the squad.

Also sometimes gradual youth development is better in the longer run than short term best results. Its not like all Empoli players are mugs, they are decent players, and should be higher up in the table.

supermadrid wrote:if you have to say anything against this system it should be that sometimes you just need the best players there is to play and who knows maybe he could help empoli out. sure italys system has worked but its all about finding a balance and maybe a few more should get a chance.

supermadrid wrote:

bluenine wrote:If young Giovinco continues to play like this, I am sure he will become a regular by the end of the season... but this is his first season in the senior team, and I can completely understand why Cagni is easing him slowly into the squad.

Also sometimes gradual youth development is better in the longer run than short term best results. Its not like all Empoli players are mugs, they are decent players, and should be higher up in the table.

supermadrid wrote:if you have to say anything against this system it should be that sometimes you just need the best players there is to play and who knows maybe he could help empoli out. sure italys system has worked but its all about finding a balance and maybe a few more should get a chance.

Sometimes young players can go in and do a better job then what one would expect from a young. for example miguel torres wasnt even in the madrid squad last year but got thrown in and suddenly was very solid and coverd a hole(our left back). now there is of course a difference since he didnt have the pressure that Giovinco has on him but sometimes just let the kids play i think. the only reason i could think of for him not to play if he delivers, is as you said they are really thinking long term and have confidence in their players and that Giovinco could be very good and so they are afraid to ruin a potentially great player.

bluenine wrote:Yeah, the long term thing is one reason in Italy. Another is that the experienced players are able to implement the complex tactics much better. Another is that the young talents play in the junior league till 20-21, and only then make the senior team.

Giovinco's exceptional talent means that he escaped another season at the youth championships, and if he continues to do what he is doing, he will become a regular starter by the end of this season.

Ideally a players peak should be reached between 25-30, if he peaks before that then maybe, just maybe, his true potential was never realised.

Following his exclusion from the big match with Juventus, Inter look set to sell Adriano in January and a new offer has come in from Fenerbahce.

L’Imperatore was not even included in the squad travelling to Turin for tonight’s Scudetto clash and Coach Roberto Mancini refused to explain why, merely stating: “We decided together. That is all.”

It was the latest chapter in the breakdown of this relationship and Adri’s divorce from the Beneamata seems inevitable.

This weekend it is reported his future may lie in Turkey, as Fenerbahce are ready to fly in to the peninsula over the next few days to begin negotiations.

It’s believed they have offered £3.5m for the striker plus the same amount as an annual salary – roughly what he currently earns at San Siro.

Adriano would meet up with another former Inter player in Istanbul, as Fenerbahce signed fellow Brazilian Roberto Carlos from Real Madrid.

Curiously, Fenerbahce are in Inter’s Champions League group and defeated the Nerazzurri 1-0 in this season’s opener.

Adriano did not take part in that game, as he was left off the European squad list. This means he is eligible for continental competition should he join the Turks in January.

The forward was snapped up by Inter as a teenager from Flamengo in 2001, then found fame on loan at Fiorentina and Parma before returning to San Siro in January 2004.

kas wrote:I'm sure there'll be a few other clubs willing to match or beat that offer...Sven's Man. City comes to mind. Inter probably will resist selling to an Italian rival.

bluenine wrote:Its useless replying to you, as you never listen... how many seasons has Lennon played in the top flight, and how many of these have been as a starter?? So how can you even compare him to a kid who is a bench player in his first season in Serie A???? Let him continue for 3 seasons, and then you will look stupid like you usually do with your Serie A opinions.

As for Italy/Serie A's best young talent being Giovinco (which is completely true as he is the biggest star and the playmaker for the Azzurini) means that "the league is fucked", then maybe in Tweedy-world it is... but as long as they keep becoming World Cup Champions, CL Champions, WPOTY winner, Ballon D'Or winner, and European Golden Shoe winner (as they are currently), I guess I will think differently.