Strongest league ???

All this talk about which is the strongest league of the big 3 and which one has strengthened most, is perhaps disregarding one particular notion, which is that all 3 are markedly inferior to what they were like 5-10 years ago.

The EPL has become a 4-horse race where it is increasingly difficult for other teams to even attempt a 4th place finish unless everything comes together for them over the whole season and one of the top 4 has an off-season. Moreover, the differences between the top and the rest are larger every year. Even mid-table teams seem happy to merely see the games against the top clubs as damage-limitation excercises, even if some of them have budgets double that of a club like Sevilla.

Which brings us to the famed La Liga with its "strength in depth". Before, when Barcelona had their troubled years, they struggled to finish 6th and were flirting with relegation places well into the new year at times. In the last few years, during the most important football crisis at Real Madrid in their entire history, the question was whether they would finish 2nd or 3rd. Where EPL also-rans are turned into world class strikers (Forlan, Kanoute, Siname Pongolle, etc.) and players like Sneijder can dominate a game after being in the country for less than two weeks.

And then Serie A. How is it possible that one single team can run away with the title like Inter did last season? Surely this must mean that either they are the best team ever to grace the planet or that there are serious strength issues overall in the league. In Milan's glory days of Baresi and the Dutch trio, they had to fight for league titles and more often failed than succeeded.
Now, world class players like Shevchenko, Samuel, Cannavaro, Zambrotta are failures (largely) abroad, whereas before it was the other way around. The Bergkamps, Zolas, Gullits, Kluiverts, Henrys and others of this world would walk into any other league and dominate as if they had just come from Krypton.

So what conclusions can be reached when looking at these facts. Some may say the EPL is in the best shape it has ever been in or that there IS an unequalled strength-in-depth in La Liga. That Milan's conquering of Europe whilst finishing 3rd in the league is a sign of the continuing strength of Serie A, but then again it may be a sign of the weakness of the others or a consequence of the easy run-in to the semis and their lack of engagement in the local league.

Your comments?

I think at the moment the Premiership is the strongest, you have the big 4 all up there (bar United) but they will be back amongst the top 4 soon no doubt, you then have teams like Everton, West Ham and Newcastle who are all looking like good forces, Blackburn too so it's very competative.

Serie A is probably second because all the big boys are doing well and looking fairly impressive, La liga will be between Madrid and Barca again you feel

Luis, the comments refer to whether you believe all 3 leagues are inferior to what they were 5-10 years ago.

toon h wrote:Luis, the comments refer to whether you believe all 3 leagues are inferior to what they were 5-10 years ago.

In that case the answer is No

I actually think that the Big 3 leagues have all strengthened this summer... the money gap between the big 3 and the others is increasing every year, and it shows... While none of the Big 3 are as strong as what say Serie A used to be in the early 90s, they are all getting stronger every summer. Its going to become more and more difficult for a non-Big 3 team to win in europe...

If I compare to what these leagues were 5 years ago, then:

EPL now >>> EPL2002
La Liga now >= La Liga 2002
Serie A now = Serie A 2002 (its regaining lost ground)

With the recent events in italy id say football has dropped over their and certainly others respects for their game. On the other hand though it is regaining its old style. In the 90's i would of labelled it the best league .
Spain
England
both leagues are gaining and gaining per summer. for the pure fact of the stronger strength in depth issue of spain id label it the best league . Both have exstonishing football though.

You seriously think the EPL is inferior to what it was ten years ago?

It depends what you mean by inferior I guess. In terms of spectacle, possibly...

In terms of the quality of personnel the EPL has lept on leaps and bounds I personally feel.

I think that Serie A has had a blip and is in a bit of a lull but will gradually improve over the next few years. I don't think it will get back to the level of the 90s though

I also think that in terms of strength in depth, the EPL is catching up with La liga. The EPL now has some very good mid table clubs: Spurs, Newcastle Utd, Man City, Blackburn and Everton are all very good in terms of depth and strength + there are other good teams like West Ham and Pompey that are improving year on year.

The epl is definitly stronger than it was 5-10 years ago. I think Seria a is weaker, and la liga about the same

EPL is the same as ten years ago. I mean back then Man United dominated the league....and ten years later they still does

toon h wrote:Luis, the comments refer to whether you believe all 3 leagues are inferior to what they were 5-10 years ago.

In terms of quality the premiership isn't worse that it was, but in terms of entertainment and competitiveness it certainly is.

@Fey: I just don't see the ManU domination that you talk about so far this season. I think EPL has strengthened considerably from what it was 5 or 10 years ago.

@Tweedle: The blip in Serie A is over, this season we have the strength in depth Serie A has not seen for many years. But yeah, it cannot compare to what it was in early 90s, no league today can. Those were the days of the Big1 instead of the Big3 we see today.

Fey wrote:EPL is the same as ten years ago. I mean back then Man United dominated the league....and ten years later they still does

Bluenine...you hear a lot of people talking $h!t about the Bundesliga, one of the reasons is that Bayern controls that league.

Fact is United dominates the EPL even more so, It took a Russian Zillionair to transform a mediocre team like Chelsea into a title winning team. But this wont last forever, and in a couple of years Chelsea will be back where they belong.

Then we have Arsenal...they had a couple of great teams over the last years. Bergkamp turned them into a "big" club. But over the last year they are performing really bad in the league...doubt they will win the title in the upcomming year.

And then we have Liverpool...well im not even going to start on that one.

To sum it all up: Manchester United are in a league of their own

I personally think EPL has markedly improved. Money, but also players like Henry and C. Ronaldo have raised its profile (internationally).

As for Inter walking away with the title, well that was a bizarre season, as you know. It's strange but at a time when Serie A's administration is in chaos, its footballers have won the World Cup, Champions League etc. Serie A is a strange one, but I would say the OVERALL strength of the league is worse (though that will improve this year). Realistically only Fiorentina can win the UEFA Cup whereas from Spain Espanyol and Sevilla played the UEFA Cup Final.

Despite that Spain (marginally better run than Italy) and England (markedly better run than Italy), IMO, are not much better than Italy in many regards. I really feel the national team should always be used as one of the measures of a league's success. And there the picture is not so rosy...

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:I personally think EPL has markedly improved. Money, but also players like Henry and C. Ronaldo have raised its profile (internationally).

As for Inter walking away with the title, well that was a bizarre season, as you know. It's strange but at a time when Serie A's administration is in chaos, its footballers have won the World Cup, Champions League etc. Serie A is a strange one, but I would say the OVERALL strength of the league is worse (though that will improve this year). Realistically only Fiorentina can win the UEFA Cup whereas from Spain Espanyol and Sevilla played the UEFA Cup Final.

Despite that Spain (marginally better run than Italy) and England (markedly better run than Italy), IMO, are not much better than Italy in many regards. I really feel the national team should always be used as one of the measures of a league's success. And there the picture is not so rosy...

Not in this day and age where half a league is foreign and some of the best players are not from that country.i mean it would mean brazil had one of the best leagues around 2002 or that greeces league was dominant in 2004.

Last year was a blip coz of external factors, lets talk this season. Most likely, Italy's representation in Eruope is going to be:

Inter, Milan, Roma, Juve for CL
Fiorentina, Palermo, Lazio & Sampdoria/Torino (assuming intertoto) for UEFA Cup.

Very soon, we will see Napoli start competing for a place in Europe, if they aren't already.

Serie A reps (next season) are not going to be any weaker than the reps from EPL or La Liga if you ask me. Serie A is back to what it used to be 6-7 years ago. Tho it may not reach the hieghts of the early 90s glory days, its strong and has the depth.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:I personally think EPL has markedly improved. Money, but also players like Henry and C. Ronaldo have raised its profile (internationally).

As for Inter walking away with the title, well that was a bizarre season, as you know. It's strange but at a time when Serie A's administration is in chaos, its footballers have won the World Cup, Champions League etc. Serie A is a strange one, but I would say the OVERALL strength of the league is worse (though that will improve this year). Realistically only Fiorentina can win the UEFA Cup whereas from Spain Espanyol and Sevilla played the UEFA Cup Final.

Despite that Spain (marginally better run than Italy) and England (markedly better run than Italy), IMO, are not much better than Italy in many regards. I really feel the national team should always be used as one of the measures of a league's success. And there the picture is not so rosy...

The Premiership has started off where everyone is beating everyone. Derby aside (who even claimed a draw from Portsmouth) the results show how strong the league is.

supermadrid wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:I personally think EPL has markedly improved. Money, but also players like Henry and C. Ronaldo have raised its profile (internationally).

As for Inter walking away with the title, well that was a bizarre season, as you know. It's strange but at a time when Serie A's administration is in chaos, its footballers have won the World Cup, Champions League etc. Serie A is a strange one, but I would say the OVERALL strength of the league is worse (though that will improve this year). Realistically only Fiorentina can win the UEFA Cup whereas from Spain Espanyol and Sevilla played the UEFA Cup Final.

Despite that Spain (marginally better run than Italy) and England (markedly better run than Italy), IMO, are not much better than Italy in many regards. I really feel the national team should always be used as one of the measures of a league's success. And there the picture is not so rosy...

Not in this day and age where half a league is foreign and some of the best players are not from that country.i mean it would mean brazil had one of the best leagues around 2002 or that greeces league was dominant in 2004.

Of the Big 3 90% of their players ply their trade in their country. They are, then, representations of that country's youth system, philosophy etc.

bluenine wrote:Last year was a blip coz of external factors, lets talk this season. Most likely, Italy's representation in Eruope is going to be:

Inter, Milan, Roma, Juve for CL
Fiorentina, Palermo, Lazio & Sampdoria/Torino (assuming intertoto) for UEFA Cup.

Very soon, we will see Napoli start competing for a place in Europe, if they aren't already.

Serie A reps (next season) are not going to be any weaker than the reps from EPL or La Liga if you ask me. Serie A is back to what it used to be 6-7 years ago. Tho it may not reach the hieghts of the early 90s glory days, its strong and has the depth.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:I personally think EPL has markedly improved. Money, but also players like Henry and C. Ronaldo have raised its profile (internationally).

As for Inter walking away with the title, well that was a bizarre season, as you know. It's strange but at a time when Serie A's administration is in chaos, its footballers have won the World Cup, Champions League etc. Serie A is a strange one, but I would say the OVERALL strength of the league is worse (though that will improve this year). Realistically only Fiorentina can win the UEFA Cup whereas from Spain Espanyol and Sevilla played the UEFA Cup Final.

Despite that Spain (marginally better run than Italy) and England (markedly better run than Italy), IMO, are not much better than Italy in many regards. I really feel the national team should always be used as one of the measures of a league's success. And there the picture is not so rosy...

I agree.

L.r.d wrote:The epl is definitly stronger than it was 5-10 years ago. I think Seria a is weaker, and la liga about the same

no no no
the spanish league has clearly gained strength
my main point been that their is no team that has a total stranglehold now. madrid and barca have had their bad points both are going strong valencia improving every year. sevilla winning many trophys suprising people. competition in the spanish league is exceptional which makes it stronger now than ever really.

I think in the terms of attraction the Serie A is still behind La liga and the premiership. 10 years ago, players from around the world, and also the best one had to play in Serie A, because THAT was the place to go. Now, things have changed, since the best place(s) to go is the premiership and La Liga. And I remember well all the French talents had offers from a bit around the best leagues in Europe and they often signed for Italians team. The Serie A, is however catching up these leagues.

StevieG wrote:

L.r.d wrote:The epl is definitly stronger than it was 5-10 years ago. I think Seria a is weaker, and la liga about the same

no no no
the spanish league has clearly gained strength
my main point been that their is no team that has a total stranglehold now. madrid and barca have had their bad points both are going strong valencia improving every year. sevilla winning many trophys suprising people. competition in the spanish league is exceptional which makes it stronger now than ever really.

how does a more competitive league make it stronger?

i mean the dutch league was very competitive last season, 3 teams in it on the last day, but does that mean its as good as La Liga?

BoBo Vieri wrote:

StevieG wrote:

L.r.d wrote:The epl is definitly stronger than it was 5-10 years ago. I think Seria a is weaker, and la liga about the same

no no no
the spanish league has clearly gained strength
my main point been that their is no team that has a total stranglehold now. madrid and barca have had their bad points both are going strong valencia improving every year. sevilla winning many trophys suprising people. competition in the spanish league is exceptional which makes it stronger now than ever really.

how does a more competitive league make it stronger?

i mean the dutch league was very competitive last season, 3 teams in it on the last day, but does that mean its as good as La Liga?

Its better!!! Midget was Cr@p for Ajax...but look how he is poaching them in for Madrid!!!

StevieG wrote:

L.r.d wrote:The epl is definitly stronger than it was 5-10 years ago. I think Seria a is weaker, and la liga about the same

no no no
the spanish league has clearly gained strength
my main point been that their is no team that has a total stranglehold now. madrid and barca have had their bad points both are going strong valencia improving every year. sevilla winning many trophys suprising people. competition in the spanish league is exceptional which makes it stronger now than ever really.

Well as far as i can remember say 5 years ago. Wasnt it barca real deportivo and valencia fighting it out? Now Sevilla replaced Deportivo. And as for quality i would say about the same. Zidane Figo etc gone. But dinho messi etc instead. Real dominated mostly, but they finished 5th one season or something like that.

From an European perspective,

Serie A is nowhere near the force it was in the 90s. Lets not forget just how dominant a league it was back then, with Serie A clubs winning UEFA Cups, CL's, Cup winner's cups en masse, with Parma, the 2 Mlans, Fiorentina, Lazio, Roma, Juve all fearsome sides. I remember thinking "Oh $h!t" anytime an English club had to play a side from Italy.

Thats not to say its bad now, but its so far away from that kind of dominance now. Only Milan still have that fearsome reputation in Europe. The rest are all very beatable.

Even before the Calcio scandel Serie A was having a bit of a blip though. The top teams like Milan, Juve and Inter used to dominate Europe. Milan still do, but back ten years ago the Italian teams were the teams to beat. Now they aren't

Deano Ashton wrote:The Premiership has started off where everyone is beating everyone. Derby aside (who even claimed a draw from Portsmouth) the results show how strong the league is.

How?

Apart from blips by Man. Utd. and Spurs and a good start by Man. City, I can't find anything especially surprising about the Premiership. The big teams are still winnning their games, the relegation favourites are getting relegated, and the middle/top half teams are doing their usual form (Blackburn, Everton, Newcastle, Villa, all have been normal).

kas wrote:

Deano Ashton wrote:The Premiership has started off where everyone is beating everyone. Derby aside (who even claimed a draw from Portsmouth) the results show how strong the league is.

How?

Apart from blips by Man. Utd. and Spurs and a good start by Man. City, I can't find anything especially surprising about the Premiership. The big teams are still winnning their games, the relegation favourites are getting relegated, and the middle/top half teams are doing their usual form (Blackburn, Everton, Newcastle, Villa, all have been normal).

Wigan have made a surprisingly good start. The same could be said for Everton and Blackburn, although that's probably more expected

I expected Everton and Blackburn to do well, the former at least until their European matches begin after which they may struggle, though buying Yakubu and Baines will help a lot.

Agreed on Wigan, they've won their home games, which is nothing special but even better than I thought. I pretty much expected them and Derby to sink like stones.

kas wrote:

Deano Ashton wrote:The Premiership has started off where everyone is beating everyone. Derby aside (who even claimed a draw from Portsmouth) the results show how strong the league is.

How?

Apart from blips by Man. Utd. and Spurs and a good start by Man. City, I can't find anything especially surprising about the Premiership. The big teams are still winnning their games, the relegation favourites are getting relegated, and the middle/top half teams are doing their usual form (Blackburn, Everton, Newcastle, Villa, all have been normal).

i think the test will be how long before the normal top 4 start pulling away from the rest. this could be pretty soon, which suggests this year ain't much different in terms of competitiveness. i think the uefa race will be v close, as there's more teams with strong sides capable of finishing top 8 but not enough places for all to do so - but becuase of the closeness of these teams, none of them will get close to the consistency needed to catch the top 4. it'll still be a 3 tier league: top 4, uefa chasing midtablers, relegation fodder (all 3 promoted teams will be struggling down there, plus maybe reading, wigan, fulham)

debaser wrote: i think the test will be how long before the normal top 4 start pulling away from the rest. this could be pretty soon,

Whaddayamean, start? Liverpool and Arsenal already are