Strongest league ???

The next round of fixtures could make a big difference in the league. The 'big 4' all play teams that will be challenging for European places in Spurs, Everton, Blackburn and Portsmouth. If they all win, they could begin to open up a gap, and if Arsenal win, then probably the weakest of the big 4 teams would be 9 points and a game in hand away from the team many tipped as having the best chance of breaking into the top 4.

The Uefa cup is still the biggest indicator of who has the strongest league from top to bottom.

If the EPL UEFA cup participants get at least 3 in the QF's, then I'd comfortably say it's the strongest league. It also has the most money from top to bottom.

Serie A needs 2-3 seasons to get back on top... still a great league, but hardly any World stars moved from abroad to play in Italy this summer.

I'll speak on bluenine's behlaf here but apparently Serie A teams don't try in the UEFA cup. They don't see it as a competition that should be taken seriously

We had the same idiotic attitude for too long, thanks to Beckenbauer's highly influential label for it ("loser cup"), but things are changing.

Expect the Bundesliga sides to do very well in the UEFA Cup this year, not just because of Bayern.

Tweedle wrote:I'll speak on bluenine's behlaf here but apparently Serie A teams don't try in the UEFA cup. They don't see it as a competition that should be taken seriously

Bugger, you beat me to it. Serie A teams consider themselves above the UEFA cup.

That reflects really badly on West Ham, If Palmero beat them "without trying" last year.

Also the Parma reserves got to the semi's a couple of years ago - but those players on the pitch were hungry.

I think West Ham weren't trying either. to be fair, they were also in relegation form at the time.

Having said that though, Palermo played their strongest side against them. Still no excuse for losing to Newcastle's reserves at home though

TeamSpirit™ wrote:That reflects really badly on West Ham, If Palmero beat them "without trying" last year.

Also the Parma reserves got to the semi's a couple of years ago - but those players on the pitch were hungry.

They played all their players against us. We were still playing Carlton Cole, Roy Carroll and Jonathan Spector against them.

Also the fact we had massive problems. So no...it doesn't reflect badly on us. Palermo shouldn't leave it til the group stages to decide they can't be bothered.

Sampdoria will try in The UEFA Cup though. We actually care about trophies. Don't consider ourselves above anything...and will try to go and win it...like we do with the Coppa Italia also.

To be fair, palermo did initially want to go for the UEFA Cup... but when the Serie A pressure started mounting up, they started playing their reserves in UEFA Cup... its sad, but Serie A teams usually put their league far above UEFA Cup...

Hopefully this season Fiorentina have the squad to rotate and play well in europe as well... but I can see them resting their top stars (during the week) in an attempt to try and qualify for the CL next season... Sampdoria don't have a squad to compete in 2 championships, and when the going gets tough, they will do a palermo.

Deano Ashton wrote:

TeamSpirit™ wrote:That reflects really badly on West Ham, If Palmero beat them "without trying" last year.

Also the Parma reserves got to the semi's a couple of years ago - but those players on the pitch were hungry.

They played all their players against us. We were still playing Carlton Cole, Roy Carroll and Jonathan Spector against them.

Also the fact we had massive problems. So no...it doesn't reflect badly on us. Palermo shouldn't leave it til the group stages to decide they can't be bothered.

Sampdoria will try in The UEFA Cup though. We actually care about trophies. Don't consider ourselves above anything...and will try to go and win it...like we do with the Coppa Italia also.

Its not as though the EPL or la liga teams were playing their strongest teams either though. Not until the knock outs anyway.

In the group stages most teams rotate so that they remain fresh enough for the league

TBH, I think Spain still has the strongest strength in depth. Just a couple of years ago relegation battling Betis beat Chelsea in the CL. I don't see a Sunderland, Derby beating a Barca or Madrid for example.

Serie A needs to take a long hard look at it's attendances before it can be be considered the strongest of the top three leagues.

I also think the Bundesliga is seeing a revival (in terms of its international exposure and the quality of football on display)

bluenine wrote:To be fair, palermo did initially want to go for the UEFA Cup... but when the Serie A pressure started mounting up, they started playing their reserves in UEFA Cup... its sad, but Serie A teams usually put their league far above UEFA Cup...

Hopefully this season Fiorentina have the squad to rotate and play well in europe as well... but I can see them resting their top stars (during the week) in an attempt to try and qualify for the CL next season... Sampdoria don't have a squad to compete in 2 championships, and when the going gets tough, they will do a palermo.

Deano Ashton wrote:

TeamSpirit™ wrote:That reflects really badly on West Ham, If Palmero beat them "without trying" last year.

Also the Parma reserves got to the semi's a couple of years ago - but those players on the pitch were hungry.

They played all their players against us. We were still playing Carlton Cole, Roy Carroll and Jonathan Spector against them.

Also the fact we had massive problems. So no...it doesn't reflect badly on us. Palermo shouldn't leave it til the group stages to decide they can't be bothered.

Sampdoria will try in The UEFA Cup though. We actually care about trophies. Don't consider ourselves above anything...and will try to go and win it...like we do with the Coppa Italia also.

We do have the squad now Bluey. I've looked at it and can see us competing.

Calidad wrote:TBH, I think Spain still has the strongest strength in depth. Just a couple of years ago relegation battling Betis beat Chelsea in the CL. I don't see a Sunderland, Derby beating a Barca or Madrid for example.

Serie A needs to take a long hard look at it's attendances before it can be be considered the strongest of the top three leagues.

I also think the Bundesliga is seeing a revival (in terms of its international exposure and the quality of football on display)

Agree that Spain do, but not really a fair example. Betis getting in the cl was because of one overachieving season, and the next season they were struggling but there team and players really were a top half of the table team not a relegation side. Maybe like west ham in prem last year.

Even with the epl money, Spain as a whole will have better teams down the league due to this work permit stuff, and all the south americans going to spain.

L.r.d wrote:
Even with the epl money, Spain as a whole will have better teams down the league due to this work permit stuff, and all the south americans going to spain.

Great point Lard - it's a vicious circle for clubs like Spurs who want to get into the top 4 in the EPL. If we wanted to sign a young non-EU talent who hasn't played enough games at Intl level, we can't, and are left with no option but to wait. By the time he's eligible for a work Permit,, he'll have come to the attention of the EPL top 4, not to mention all the competetion from abroad.

But it doesn't matter much IMO, because with the money you have in the Premiership, you buy a whole lot of youngsters from all over Europe. Just look at what Liverpool have done this season, and Arsenal/Chelsea/Spurs themselves over the past few.

And pointing out the work permit rules without mentioning Spain's 3 non-EU player limit for each squad (ie. 3 in the first team, 3 in the B team, etc.) is a one-sided view.


I think all these effects cancel each other out - if teams down the league in Spain are stronger, it's because the level of youth coming through in Spain is better than England, so even small teams always have talented players.

Calidad wrote:Just a couple of years ago relegation battling Betis beat Chelsea in the CL.

Betis scored with their only chance of the night, having been absolutely battered at the Bridge. If anything, it's amazing how a team could go from CL qualifiers to relegation battlers in less than half a season. Criticise the EPL all you like but that wouldn't happen here.

S4P wrote:

Calidad wrote:Just a couple of years ago relegation battling Betis beat Chelsea in the CL.

Betis scored with their only chance of the night, having been absolutely battered at the Bridge. If anything, it's amazing how a team could go from CL qualifiers to relegation battlers in less than half a season. Criticise the EPL all you like but that wouldn't happen here.

Not quite CL qualifiers, but...Ipswich. And Everton, kind of.

TeamSpirit™ wrote:The Uefa cup is still the biggest indicator of who has the strongest league from top to bottom.

If the EPL UEFA cup participants get at least 3 in the QF's, then I'd comfortably say it's the strongest league. It also has the most money from top to bottom.

Serie A needs 2-3 seasons to get back on top... still a great league, but hardly any World stars moved from abroad to play in Italy this summer.

But Serie A teams prefer to make stars rather than buy them. Zidane, Batistuta, Rui Costa, Veron, Crespo were all little known before they arrived in Serie A but turned into superstars

Calidad wrote:TBH, I think Spain still has the strongest strength in depth. Just a couple of years ago relegation battling Betis beat Chelsea in the CL. I don't see a Sunderland, Derby beating a Barca or Madrid for example.

Serie A needs to take a long hard look at it's attendances before it can be be considered the strongest of the top three leagues.

I also think the Bundesliga is seeing a revival (in terms of its international exposure and the quality of football on display)

We can all come up with random examples like that. Parma were battling relegation and reached the SF of the UEFA cup. Roma were struggling in the bottom half of the table yet still managed to beat Real and spank Valenica in their own backyards.

Ipswich even beat Inter a few years ago, and that was the season they go relegated!

I think this story of saying the U.E.F.A cup doesn't really matters, etc is understandable for a team which is struggling in its own league. For the rest of the others, however, it feels 'an excuse of the day' from the manager. Of course you are not obliged to put all your best players but for the supporters point of view you must at least try to go far in this competition, because this can help the club financially. It can also help a club to create a good image about itself, and it can bring and appeal new players.

kas wrote:But it doesn't matter much IMO, because with the money you have in the Premiership, you buy a whole lot of youngsters from all over Europe. Just look at what Liverpool have done this season, and Arsenal/Chelsea/Spurs themselves over the past few.

And pointing out the work permit rules without mentioning Spain's 3 non-EU player limit for each squad (ie. 3 in the first team, 3 in the B team, etc.) is a one-sided view.


.

This rule is not as bad as the work permit stuff anyway....but even if it was after a few years they can become a spanish citizen or european citizen then they don't qualify for this rule.
Barca have what how many? Messi Dinho Etoo Toure Milito Marques, quite a few more than three right.

well, whereas La Liga has the South Americans, the EPL has all these Irish, Welsh and Scottish players coming in...

EPL clubs are limited to signing only the cream of the crop really, so clubs below the top 4 find it tough to attract south american players.

Serie A has a nice ruling as well. They're allowed an unlimited amount in total, but are limited to signing just one South American player per year.

Tweedle wrote:

EPL clubs are limited to signing only the cream of the crop really, so clubs below the top 4 find it tough to attract south american players.

Serie A has a nice ruling as well. They're allowed an unlimited amount in total, but are limited to signing just one South American player per year.

at least you can sign as many French players as you like.

racist!

BoBo Vieri wrote:

StevieG wrote:

L.r.d wrote:The epl is definitly stronger than it was 5-10 years ago. I think Seria a is weaker, and la liga about the same

no no no
the spanish league has clearly gained strength
my main point been that their is no team that has a total stranglehold now. madrid and barca have had their bad points both are going strong valencia improving every year. sevilla winning many trophys suprising people. competition in the spanish league is exceptional which makes it stronger now than ever really.

how does a more competitive league make it stronger?

i mean the dutch league was very competitive last season, 3 teams in it on the last day, but does that mean its as good as La Liga?

Surely the only real way to pit two leagues against each other than an obvious gulf in quality, is performance in Europe. Particularly the the mid-table Spanish clubs are always a threat. I can't see a mid table Dutch team, lets say Utrecht or Vittese getting to the semi finals of the UEFA cup as achieved by Espanyol and Osausuna last season.

For the strength of the top, top teams the Prmeiership proved a point last season with the three teams in the semis. It almost set a marker for the rest of Europe, but I expect a backlash this season. The top four from either Serie A or in particular La Liga - has the potential to produce a very strong performance in the CL this season. But I think for the real show of a league's quality, the UEFA Cup should be looked at just as much.

All in all, taking summer additions into account as well as performance last season Spain is a centi-meter ahead of the EPL right now in my eyes, at the present time in terms of depth. Serie A trailing a little bit behind, but expect improvement this season since the Calciopoli finally seems to be over.

toon h wrote:well, whereas La Liga has the South Americans, the EPL has all these Irish, Welsh and Scottish players coming in...

Yeah true, but brazil is bigger than all these countries put together five times over, and on the whole they don't produce many good players.

L.r.d wrote:

toon h wrote:well, whereas La Liga has the South Americans, the EPL has all these Irish, Welsh and Scottish players coming in...

Yeah true, but brazil is bigger than all these countries put together five times over, and on the whole they don't produce many good players.

tbh, these guys count as non-EU players at the start and we have a limit of 3 per squad. After 5 years they can get a double nationality. At that point, though, once they have a double nationality, they can play anywhere in Europe without restrictions, not just in Spain.

NCFC wrote:

BoBo Vieri wrote:

StevieG wrote:

L.r.d wrote:The epl is definitly stronger than it was 5-10 years ago. I think Seria a is weaker, and la liga about the same

no no no
the spanish league has clearly gained strength
my main point been that their is no team that has a total stranglehold now. madrid and barca have had their bad points both are going strong valencia improving every year. sevilla winning many trophys suprising people. competition in the spanish league is exceptional which makes it stronger now than ever really.

how does a more competitive league make it stronger?

i mean the dutch league was very competitive last season, 3 teams in it on the last day, but does that mean its as good as La Liga?

Surely the only real way to pit two leagues against each other than an obvious gulf in quality, is performance in Europe. Particularly the the mid-table Spanish clubs are always a threat. I can't see a mid table Dutch team, lets say Utrecht or Vittese getting to the semi finals of the UEFA cup as achieved by Espanyol and Osausuna last season.

For the strength of the top, top teams the Prmeiership proved a point last season with the three teams in the semis. It almost set a marker for the rest of Europe, but I expect a backlash this season. The top four from either Serie A or in particular La Liga - has the potential to produce a very strong performance in the CL this season. But I think for the real show of a league's quality, the UEFA Cup should be looked at just as much.

All in all, taking summer additions into account as well as performance last season Spain is a centi-meter ahead of the EPL right now in my eyes, at the present time in terms of depth. Serie A trailing a little bit behind, but expect improvement this season since the Calciopoli finally seems to be over.

Fair enough, my point was that a competitive league doesnt necessarily mean a stronger league overall. Yes performance in Europe is probably the best indicator, but even then it still ignores 12/13 teams in the league.
However both are cup competitions and you can't read too much into 1 year.